Club Focus Carlton 2021 - Cerra, Young, Motlop

[Ants]

Funny you mention Setterfield because a player like him and Marchbank combined would have been on as much or more then Williams and they cost two good picks and Tuohy. Value for money they are probably worse then someone like Williams.
Giving Caldwell a $2.75mil contract and trading for him is every bit, if not more risky then Williams

The Caldwell deal is definitely a risk, but the figures in the media are about $450k a year for four years. There may be an option for a 5th year, but no idea what that entails (and how much risk it offsets). So it sounds like guaranteed about $1.8m, not $2.75m. Still plenty of risk, especially given his cost in picks.

Essendon’s bumper offer to sign 20-year-old revealed

But it wasn’t even the biggest contract on the table.

7news.com.au

Pay up, Dons: GWS wants first-round pick for mid who's 'ready to explode'

GWS list manager Jason McCartney has made it clear what the club wants in return for Jye Caldwell

www.afl.com.au

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

The Caldwell deal is definitely a risk, but the figures in the media are about $450k a year for four years. There may be an option for a 5th year, but no idea what that entails (and how much risk it offsets). So it sounds like guaranteed about $1.8m, not $2.75m. Still plenty of risk, especially given his cost in picks.

Essendon’s bumper offer to sign 20-year-old revealed

But it wasn’t even the biggest contract on the table.

7news.com.au

Pay up, Dons: GWS wants first-round pick for mid who's 'ready to explode'

GWS list manager Jason McCartney has made it clear what the club wants in return for Jye Caldwell

www.afl.com.au

To be honest I’m more just taking the piss because 90% of these figures are just made up in the media hence why we get this crap.

The "staggering" amount of money Essendon will pay Jye Caldwell

"Essendon will deny (this figure)."

www.sen.com.au

Redirect Notice

www.google.com.au

It’s all guess work, I’d also be shocked if Curnow and McGovern’s figures that are reported aren’t incentive based numbers.

 

[La Dispute]

Too early to say at this stage but his hamstring issues are worrying.

Carlton got Setterfield for similar money is he a bust?

The club has royally cooked Setterfield's development to the point we might have even cost him a career, and I wouldn't blame the guy if he wanted to leave at the end of the year.

Was doing well as an inside mid last year after being slowly integrated into the stoppage setup, then for whatever reason - maybe Williams' introduction into the midfield, maybe wanting to give Dow opportunity - he was stuck onto a wing. He is not an endurance runner, he is slow, isn't the most reliable short kick, so it's fairly apparent it was never going to work out.

I think at times he has lacked intensity, but that has been pretty consistent across the squad, really he should be a consistent ball winner it this stage of his career. Amazing how quickly his game has tanked.

 

[Ambrosia]

The club has royally cooked Setterfield's development to the point we might have even cost him a career, and I wouldn't blame the guy if he wanted to leave at the end of the year.

Was doing well as an inside mid last year after being slowly integrated into the stoppage setup, then for whatever reason - maybe Williams' introduction into the midfield, maybe wanting to give Dow opportunity - he was stuck onto a wing. He is not an endurance runner, he is slow, isn't the most reliable short kick, so it's fairly apparent it was never going to work out.

I think at times he has lacked intensity, but that has been pretty consistent across the squad, really he should be a consistent ball winner it this stage of his career. Amazing how quickly his game has tanked.

I could be wrong but I wonder if the coaches just don’t rate him that highly. Outside of being a good accumulator I don’t really see why a side would want to play him as an centre square mid.

Realistically there’s only room for 4 maybe 5 players to get big midfield minutes per team and give the depth of quality in that position you have to be a genuine gun or bring something different to the role to play there.

Setterfield reminds me of post suspension Heppell as a midfielder. Heppell wasn’t bad in that role but he wasn’t really a positive player when you compare his impact on games to the guys he was going up against. Obviously Heppell’s issues were exacerbated by injury but the point remains what’s he or Setterfield’s point of difference that makes them likely to out perform the guy they line up against at the start of a game.

At least with guys like Dow, Fisher and Cunningham you see how they could become really valuable players if they put it together.

 

[Ambrosia]

To be honest I’m more just taking the piss because 90% of these figures are just made up in the media hence why we get this crap.

The "staggering" amount of money Essendon will pay Jye Caldwell

"Essendon will deny (this figure)."

www.sen.com.au

Redirect Notice

www.google.com.au

It’s all guess work, I’d also be shocked if Curnow and McGovern’s figures that are reported aren’t incentive based numbers.

To me who really cares what x player is paid until it’s demonstrated that you are a) losing players because of salary cap squeeze or b) unable to make offers to free agents because your salary cap is too tight.

Neither of those things have happened at Carlton. So all the carry on about McGovern/Williams/whoever being overpaid is just a different way of pointing out that Carlton aren’t a good football side because given the salary cap floor is 95% there’s no way for the bottom sides to operate without “overpaying” somebody.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Patrick Dow is available for a top 20 pick (least if it was up for me)

Lack of ticker and willingness to do the hard yards is my knock on him.

If only he had Stocker's work ethic SMH

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Patrick Dow is available for a top 20 pick (least if it was up for me)

Lack of ticker and willingness to do the hard yards is my knock on him.

If only he had Stocker's work ethic SMH

Dow should be considered untouchable especially considering his current value. Will be a great mid for us in time albeit a slow burn.

 

[Ambrosia]

Dow should be considered untouchable especially considering his current value. Will be a great mid for us in time albeit a slow burn.

I see why Carlton fans would be optimistic Dow could turn it around but if Carlton were offered a top 20 pick for him surely they’d grab it and run.

 

[Rob R]

Patrick Dow is available for a top 20 pick (least if it was up for me)

Lack of ticker and willingness to do the hard yards is my knock on him.

If only he had Stocker's work ethic SMH

Good deal for Carlton if someone was silly enough. Late second more likely on current form.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jeremias]

I see why Carlton fans would be optimistic Dow could turn it around but if Carlton were offered a top 20 pick for him surely they’d grab it and run.

No. Much rather keep him.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I see why Carlton fans would be optimistic Dow could turn it around but if Carlton were offered a top 20 pick for him surely they’d grab it and run.

No one is trading a first round pick for Dow and we wouldn’t entertain it unless it was huge overs.

We’ve invested plenty in him and he seems only continuity and confidence away from kicking on and becoming a really good clearance mid for us. Happy to keep.

 

[sherrif]

No one is trading a first round pick for Dow and we wouldn’t entertain it unless it was huge overs.

We’ve invested plenty in him and he seems only continuity and confidence away from kicking on and becoming a really good clearance mid for us. Happy to keep.

I'd say Dow has too much potential upside to trade. Meawhile there are rumours Carlton have a lot of interest in Adam Cerra. Not sure how your salary cap is looking but what do Carlton fans think would be a fair trade. He was fantastic before suffering an injury this season averaging around 24 possessions and using it brilliantly.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Patrick Dow is available for a top 20 pick (least if it was up for me)

Lack of ticker and willingness to do the hard yards is my knock on him.

If only he had Stocker's work ethic SMH

Well that post aged badly.
Dow officially off the market and I am a flog

 

[Jeremias]

Well that post aged badly.
Dow officially off the market and I am a flog

To be fair, it hasn't just aged badly - it was a shocking call at the time too.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Well that post aged badly.
Dow officially off the market and I am a flog

One game should not sway you so easily. You either believe or you don’t. He’s always had the talent.

 

[La Dispute]

To be fair, it hasn't just aged badly - it was a shocking call at the time too.

Bit of both, hard to predict Dow playing the best game of his career 24 hours later.

 

[Jeremias]

Bit of both, hard to predict Dow playing the best game of his career 24 hours later.

He was very good last week as well.

 

[footyfan1978]

Well that post aged badly.
Dow officially off the market and I am a flog

Love the look in mirror honesty.
Well done.

 

[foxdog50]

Yes it probably is bullsh!t, but Paddy Dow

15

Paddy Dow

Age

24

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

7.1

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.6

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.4

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

... yes his contracted but, there some kind of rumour he is up for grabs. What would he be worth in pick situation?

 

[Giant Strides]

He's been better this year, but I would think it still starts late first round or early second round pick. He's unlikely to become star, but he could be part of a solid midfield rotation with a bit of focussed development. I doubt Carlton would be happy with that return though. It would depend whether he wants out or if Carlton want to move him on - if the report is true.

 

[james Dean]

Yes it probably is bullsh!t, but Paddy Dow... yes his contracted but, there some kind of rumour he is up for grabs. What would he be worth in pick situation?

Pick 30 would probably be about his market value. Shown glimpses but has overall been pretty average. Still only 21 though

 

[La Dispute]

He's been better this year, but I would think it still starts late first round or early second round pick. He's unlikely to become star, but he could be part of a solid midfield rotation with a bit of focussed development. I doubt Carlton would be happy with that return though. It would depend whether he wants out or if Carlton want to move him on - if the report is true.

He’s worth more to the club by far.

Still hasn’t set the world on fire, but he finally has a solid run of games about a month ago and was in our best in a couple of them.

A better coach would be getting more out of him, and I’d like to see how he goes under Clarko or Lyon.

Players also develop at different rates, even first round picks. Matt Kennedy’s time at Carlton looked shot earlier in the year, but he has been out second best mid this season. LOB has looked better in his recent run of games.

We’d be silly to make any major changes with the guys we’ve brought in as early draft picks until they’ve worked with a competent coaching group.

 

[Giant Strides]

He’s worth more to the club by far.

Still hasn’t set the world on fire, but he finally has a solid run of games about a month ago and was in our best in a couple of them.

A better coach would be getting more out of him, and I’d like to see how he goes under Clarko or Lyon.

Players also develop at different rates, even first round picks. Matt Kennedy’s time at Carlton looked shot earlier in the year, but he has been out second best mid this season. LOB has looked better in his recent run of games.

We’d be silly to make any major changes with the guys we’ve brought in as early draft picks until they’ve worked with a competent coaching group.

Yep, I'd certainly agree - a case where he's worth more to you inside the club than trading. Hence the tone of my comments. Comparably - it's been nice to see Bam Bam developing into a solid midfielder at Carlton, which he simply would not have had the opportunity to do at GWS. However, Paddy may just force your hand if he's concerned about his development, although you'd like to think he'd wait to experience a new coach.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Yep, I'd certainly agree - a case where he's worth more to you inside the club than trading. Hence the tone of my comments. Comparably - it's been nice to see Bam Bam developing into a solid midfielder at Carlton, which he simply would not have had the opportunity to do at GWS. However, Paddy may just force your hand if he's concerned about his development, although you'd like to think he'd wait to experience a new coach.

Bam Bam has shown Carltons midfield depth for what it is. Horrendous. Unfortunately we don't have the running power to play Kennedy, Cripps and Dow in the same midfield with such weak wingmen. The games Cripps has been out of the middle Kennedy has been enormous in close and look more balanced. We get killed on the spread every game and unfortunately none of them are naturally great runners but without them we simply don't win enough contested ball to compete. Blues in desperate need of a change up of personal in that mix be it through the draft or through trade to be able to mix it with the top teams. Cerra a good fit but someone like Menegola, Whitfield or Guthrie are the type we need who can push back to help the defence, just need them about 8 years younger and on far less coin. Other than Walsh we really don't have anyone who regularly gets back to assist hence why we get torn to shreds on turnover

 

[Giant Strides]

Bam Bam has shown Carltons midfield depth for what it is. Horrendous. Unfortunately we don't have the running power to play Kennedy, Cripps and Dow in the same midfield with such weak wingmen. The games Cripps has been out of the middle Kennedy has been enormous in close and look more balanced. We get killed on the spread every game and unfortunately none of them are naturally great runners but without them we simply don't win enough contested ball to compete. Blues in desperate need of a change up of personal in that mix be it through the draft or through trade to be able to mix it with the top teams. Cerra a good fit but someone like Menegola, Whitfield or Guthrie are the type we need who can push back to help the defence, just need them about 8 years younger and on far less coin. Other than Walsh we really don't have anyone who regularly gets back to assist hence why we get torn to shreds on turnover

Which is a sensible and reasonable analysis, the concluding thought being - do you reluctantly need to move Dow or Kennedy on to get a better balance in the midfield, in which case is Dow the one who gets you a better trade value?