Official Club Stuff Carlton Academy - Next Gen & Father/Son/Daughter Discussion

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DeIulio2Pearce said:
He was rapt after that game and fair enough, the kid has bought in big time to the Bullants culture and to knock off our 2s after being left for dead and pretty much presumed buried, I think getting up and about is fair enough.
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Yeah totally, all power to him.
 
DeIulio2Pearce said:
He was rapt after that game and fair enough, the kid has bought in big time to the Bullants culture and to knock off our 2s after being left for dead and pretty much presumed buried, I think getting up and about is fair enough.
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Maybe a couple of years playing at the Bullants will knock the "entitlement" out of him and he can achieve what we all thought he could be. Anyway, it's good to see that he has brought into the Bullants culture.

Personally, I am hoping that we've done a backdoor deal with the Bullants that if we don't take a FS, they will pick them up and give them the experience they need to make it in the big time. Too many kids these days are drafted way too early and end up bombing out because they weren't ready for the big show.
 
Players are drafted too young, there is no doubt about that, many sit on the lists for a couple of years before they can at minimum hold their own at AFL level. TBH if the draft age was lifted to 20 it would be far more practical. Early draft picks would be more valuable as drafting would be far more reliable and players would be ready to go far sooner. There would be far less wasted draft picks as drafting would be easier. However this probably doesn't fit into the desire for kids to leave high school and go straight into either footy or something else and many may go into a career that makes it too hard to do both at a high level.

I think with smaller list sizes, more young talented players having a go in state footy, the state comps might become a stronger recruiting ground.

Ben Silvagni is currently a 21 year old key position player, most 21 year old key position players are developing on lists still and are just starting to emerge as permanent AFL players. Most of them have played most of their footy in the twos.

That's why Lewis Young is such a good pick up. He's 22 years old. He's just at that point where he's just developed as a tall and ready to play senior football. These kids, particularly the tall ones are a waste of a list spot for 2-4 years while they are developing and that's why it would be good to be able to pick them up later as we have with young.

We have probably drafted some raw kids over the years who have had talent who have been delisted a bit too early. Silvagni is one and Ramsay and Macreadie are the other two. If you were to pick them up at 20 and give them two years to make it you would probably have a different story on your hands than you do when you pick them up at 18 and give them two years then delist them because spots are tight and you can't be patient with slow developers.

IMO I think it's a big year for Ben Silvagni, it's one where he should be mature enough and strong enough to perform and look like an AFL player and get back on a list somewhere.

There are plenty of players out there like this who could become AFL players but just might take longer to develop.

I would be hoping with us that we probably have a good cleanout of players next season and we have a serious look at the young talent in the state comps.
 

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gbatman said:
Players are drafted too young, there is no doubt about that, many sit on the lists for a couple of years before they can at minimum hold their own at AFL level. TBH if the draft age was lifted to 20 it would be far more practical. Early draft picks would be more valuable as drafting would be far more reliable and players would be ready to go far sooner. There would be far less wasted draft picks as drafting would be easier. However this probably doesn't fit into the desire for kids to leave high school and go straight into either footy or something else and many may go into a career that makes it too hard to do both at a high level.

I think with smaller list sizes, more young talented players having a go in state footy, the state comps might become a stronger recruiting ground.

Ben Silvagni is currently a 21 year old key position player, most 21 year old key position players are developing on lists still and are just starting to emerge as permanent AFL players. Most of them have played most of their footy in the twos.

That's why Lewis Young is such a good pick up. He's 22 years old. He's just at that point where he's just developed as a tall and ready to play senior football. These kids, particularly the tall ones are a waste of a list spot for 2-4 years while they are developing and that's why it would be good to be able to pick them up later as we have with young.

We have probably drafted some raw kids over the years who have had talent who have been delisted a bit too early. Silvagni is one and Ramsay and Macreadie are the other two. If you were to pick them up at 20 and give them two years to make it you would probably have a different story on your hands than you do when you pick them up at 18 and give them two years then delist them because spots are tight and you can't be patient with slow developers.

IMO I think it's a big year for Ben Silvagni, it's one where he should be mature enough and strong enough to perform and look like an AFL player and get back on a list somewhere.

There are plenty of players out there like this who could become AFL players but just might take longer to develop.

I would be hoping with us that we probably have a good cleanout of players next season and we have a serious look at the young talent in the state comps.
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Nice post. But otoh, there's the likes of Sam Walsh, who was in Carlton's top 3 players at 18, and top 1 (and 4th in Brownlow) by his third season. Or going back further, Tim Watson, who was playing senior VFL at 15. There's Nick Daicos who would have walked into the Pies' senior team last year if he was eligible.
Have to draw the line somewhere I guess. How do we still give the likes of Walsh and Daicos the opportunity they deserve, but allow those that mature at a slower rate a chance? Perhaps limit each club to one 18-year-old and one 19-year-old? Not sure if that would work - would perhaps then need to have say an under-21 comp as well to showcase the later maturing types? Don't know what the answer is, but it's worth asking the question.
 
Bletch said:
Nice post. But otoh, there's the likes of Sam Walsh, who was in Carlton's top 3 players at 18, and top 1 (and 4th in Brownlow) by his third season. Or going back further, Tim Watson, who was playing senior VFL at 15. There's Nick Daicos who would have walked into the Pies' senior team last year if he was eligible.
Have to draw the line somewhere I guess. How do we still give the likes of Walsh and Daicos the opportunity they deserve, but allow those that mature at a slower rate a chance? Perhaps limit each club to one 18-year-old and one 19-year-old? Not sure if that would work - would perhaps then need to have say an under-21 comp as well to showcase the later maturing types? Don't know what the answer is, but it's worth asking the question.
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The problem with raising the draft age is there would need to be a restructure of the pathways. Currently there is the TAC u18 development pathway and then through the draft and AFL system for the lucky ones. I still think that's the best place for the best 18 y.os to be. The system has become much better at giving the late bloomers a crack through the state leagues such as Tim Kelly etc.
 
Bletch said:
Nice post. But otoh, there's the likes of Sam Walsh, who was in Carlton's top 3 players at 18, and top 1 (and 4th in Brownlow) by his third season. Or going back further, Tim Watson, who was playing senior VFL at 15. There's Nick Daicos who would have walked into the Pies' senior team last year if he was eligible.
Have to draw the line somewhere I guess. How do we still give the likes of Walsh and Daicos the opportunity they deserve, but allow those that mature at a slower rate a chance? Perhaps limit each club to one 18-year-old and one 19-year-old? Not sure if that would work - would perhaps then need to have say an under-21 comp as well to showcase the later maturing types? Don't know what the answer is, but it's worth asking the question.
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Exactly, these Sam Walsh types are extremely rare but you don't want to see them wasted playing in the state league. So what do you do if you did raise the draft age to over 19s?

The benefits are that you can have a greater guarantee with who you are bringing in. This would be great for rebuilding clubs as they would burn less early draft picks. Would also be great for clubs in general as they would have less wasted list spots. Clubs are forced to take on players who are not ready for AFL. With smaller list sizes this is really hard on some clubs. Club lists would go from having a heap of players who are not AFL ready to nearly all players being AFL ready which is great if you have injuries.

The downside of taking players as 20 year olds instead of 18 year olds is that some may develop bad habits or drift away from football after 18 although there could be programs put into place to prevent this.

Then what about the early bloomers like Sam Walsh? I had a good think about this. All clubs can take 1 under age player. That would be a player 18-19 years old each year. That way you get to your first pick and if there is a Walsh or a Daicos there you can still take them.

It would take a few years of heavily impacted drafts to implement this but it would really deepen the draft and it would make getting picks right a lot easier that's for sure. Not sure where the 18-19 year olds play, perhaps they move out to state clubs, seeing as that is where they all would end up playing anyway this makes sense. However, will the state clubs accommodate all these young players? The competition may need to be expanded. Teams may have to field a teenager quota where they have to play x amount of players under 20.

I am sure this would be a too hard basket situation for the AFL but it has the potential to be a really good thing.
 
gbatman said:
Players are drafted too young, there is no doubt about that, many sit on the lists for a couple of years before they can at minimum hold their own at AFL level. TBH if the draft age was lifted to 20 it would be far more practical. Early draft picks would be more valuable as drafting would be far more reliable and players would be ready to go far sooner. There would be far less wasted draft picks as drafting would be easier. However this probably doesn't fit into the desire for kids to leave high school and go straight into either footy or something else and many may go into a career that makes it too hard to do both at a high level.

I think with smaller list sizes, more young talented players having a go in state footy, the state comps might become a stronger recruiting ground.

Ben Silvagni is currently a 21 year old key position player, most 21 year old key position players are developing on lists still and are just starting to emerge as permanent AFL players. Most of them have played most of their footy in the twos.

That's why Lewis Young is such a good pick up. He's 22 years old. He's just at that point where he's just developed as a tall and ready to play senior football. These kids, particularly the tall ones are a waste of a list spot for 2-4 years while they are developing and that's why it would be good to be able to pick them up later as we have with young.

We have probably drafted some raw kids over the years who have had talent who have been delisted a bit too early. Silvagni is one and Ramsay and Macreadie are the other two. If you were to pick them up at 20 and give them two years to make it you would probably have a different story on your hands than you do when you pick them up at 18 and give them two years then delist them because spots are tight and you can't be patient with slow developers.

IMO I think it's a big year for Ben Silvagni, it's one where he should be mature enough and strong enough to perform and look like an AFL player and get back on a list somewhere.

There are plenty of players out there like this who could become AFL players but just might take longer to develop.

I would be hoping with us that we probably have a good cleanout of players next season and we have a serious look at the young talent in the state comps.
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Unfortunately Ben is miles off it, and to top it off he's no longer eligible for this mechanism.

Unless he suddenly puts on 10kg and wins the Liston he's not getting drafted, but if he shows progress towards becoming an elite VFL player with AFL potential, we'd probably get him in the SSP end of 2022. But that is a hypothetical and in no way reflective of his current value or projection.
 
The Blue Weirdo said:
I'd like to see the rookie lists increased to allow more young players on minimum salaries. Get the kids into an AFL system, with no pressure to play senior football.
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With all clubs now having a reserves entity, it makes sense to adopt some sort of Supplementary List associated with their VFL players to be activated dependent on injury or illness on the main list. With the relaxing of Covid restrictions it is highly likely multiple players and/or officials will have down time in the foreseeable future as well. Sorry to play Devils Advocate.
 
Jimmae said:
Unfortunately Ben is miles off it, and to top it off he's no longer eligible for this mechanism.
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Did we nominate Ben as a FS when we recruited him? I thought not. Someone said that means he’s still eligible.
 
IMO increasing the draft age would unfairly advantage athletes from wealthy families who have the luxury of committing to football after school without the pressure of earning a paycheck. The balance is already in their favour in regards to access to football programs at private schools and another hurdle should not be added.
 
JrDr said:
IMO increasing the draft age would unfairly advantage athletes from wealthy families who have the luxury of committing to football after school without the pressure of earning a paycheck. The balance is already in their favour in regards to access to football programs at private schools and another hurdle should not be added.
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in the US there the college system as a proving ground but the players are getting scholarships and at least nominally a degree along with it (leaving aside the shady financial aspects of the US college system).
without a preparatory system like that i'm not sure it'll create a better outcome for anyone.
 

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branedotorg said:
in the US there the college system as a proving ground but the players are getting scholarships and at least nominally a degree along with it (leaving aside the shady financial aspects of the US college system).
without a preparatory system like that i'm not sure it'll create a better outcome for anyone.
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Spot on. If Ben Silvagni isn't ready for AFL now with all the advantages he has been afforded, he never will be. He only needed to look at Jack to see how hard he had to work and how desperate to win he had to be to make it.
 
gbatman said:
Players are drafted too young, there is no doubt about that, many sit on the lists for a couple of years before they can at minimum hold their own at AFL level. TBH if the draft age was lifted to 20 it would be far more practical. Early draft picks would be more valuable as drafting would be far more reliable and players would be ready to go far sooner. There would be far less wasted draft picks as drafting would be easier. However this probably doesn't fit into the desire for kids to leave high school and go straight into either footy or something else and many may go into a career that makes it too hard to do both at a high level.

I think with smaller list sizes, more young talented players having a go in state footy, the state comps might become a stronger recruiting ground.

Ben Silvagni is currently a 21 year old key position player, most 21 year old key position players are developing on lists still and are just starting to emerge as permanent AFL players. Most of them have played most of their footy in the twos.

That's why Lewis Young is such a good pick up. He's 22 years old. He's just at that point where he's just developed as a tall and ready to play senior football. These kids, particularly the tall ones are a waste of a list spot for 2-4 years while they are developing and that's why it would be good to be able to pick them up later as we have with young.

We have probably drafted some raw kids over the years who have had talent who have been delisted a bit too early. Silvagni is one and Ramsay and Macreadie are the other two. If you were to pick them up at 20 and give them two years to make it you would probably have a different story on your hands than you do when you pick them up at 18 and give them two years then delist them because spots are tight and you can't be patient with slow developers.

IMO I think it's a big year for Ben Silvagni, it's one where he should be mature enough and strong enough to perform and look like an AFL player and get back on a list somewhere.

There are plenty of players out there like this who could become AFL players but just might take longer to develop.

I would be hoping with us that we probably have a good cleanout of players next season and we have a serious look at the young talent in the state comps.
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In the US, it's rare that players are drafted before they finish college at age 22. I've said for a while that players should be eligible to be drafted when they are 21 or older. By they time they are going to be physically prepared for the rigours of AFL football.
 
Dramoth said:
In the US, it's rare that players are drafted before they finish college at age 22. I've said for a while that players should be eligible to be drafted when they are 21 or older. By they time they are going to be physically prepared for the rigours of AFL football.
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Seeing as most players sit on lists and play state footy for two or three years, this makes sense. It makes it hard for clubs, particularly one with a lot of youth to carry a heap of players who are not up to playing AFL footy physically.

The state system would need improving significantly and it could make it hard for country kids to move purely to play footy. I would still like to see those 18 and 19 years olds who are ready for AFL to be drafted and that's easy to achieve with rules.

It's far more appealing to be bringing in a bunch of 20+ year olds who are ready to go into your club each year than a bunch of 18+ year olds who aren't physically ready to go.

It would make the draft system more effective, picks would be worth a lot more as you are more likely to be bringing in known quantities.

It would take a few years of pretty slim drafts to get there but it would be a much better system.
 
Dramoth said:
In the US, it's rare that players are drafted before they finish college at age 22. I've said for a while that players should be eligible to be drafted when they are 21 or older. By they time they are going to be physically prepared for the rigours of AFL football.
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The difference though, is that the US College system is huge (across all sports). College basketball, football etc. has a massive following with TV coverage. By the time the drafts come along, all of the major candidates are well known. They have a lot of exposure, and with recent rulings the top players will be able to earn a packet. College sport in the US is a $14b industry.

For the AFL to move to a system where players would have to wait till 21 to play, there would have to be a significant shift in the junior football structure - likely a country-wide Under-21 comp. It'd need to be financed to a point where the players earn a decent wage, or it would end up in court with talented underage players claiming the rules prevented them earning a salary. And there would need to be a shift in the way we punters consume our sport - a televised national comp, that drew regular crowds. It's hard to see that we'd have the resources to support this in the way the US does.
 
The success of an Australian College system would need the buy in of all sporting codes and at least 12 major universities. It couldn’t just be about AFL.. just as US colleges aren’t just about NFL.

It ambitious, but it would create thousands of jobs (from coaching to medical to even construction and facilities management).

It wouldn’t be successful overnight, but it would be a far more stable pathway for young athletes, and also offer them proper educational pathways… particularly for those whose future may be dependent on a fully paid scholarship and are able to earn one based on their athletic gifts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Don’t think there is any chance Tom gets drafted, I think he’s realised it as well.
He’s signed on with player management company Kapital Sports to work within their recruiting division
 
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