Carlton and Collingwood - who finishes higher in 2023?

Who finishes higher?


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    192
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PieLebo87

Hall of Famer
Sep 14, 2005
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Collingwood
Mainly here so we can enjoy the LOLs afterwards at the end of 2023, but also an interesting discussion point.

I’m in genuine two minds and can’t call it, but who do you see finishing higher in 2023?

Who is positioned better from a list/team perspective?

Let the games begin…
 

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Fadge

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 4, 2007
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Collingwood
Looking at the teams on paper, you would think the answer is Carlton, but the game is not played on paper and Carlton is Carlton, so the answer is Collingwood.
Really?!?

I would say if you looked at a list of each team's top 5 players it would be Carlton.

By any other objective and rational analysis, the answer is clearly Collingwood.

We're playing football, not basketball.
 

LoungeLizard

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 15, 2009
11,670
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Gippsland
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Collingwood
Really?!?

I would say if you looked at a list of each team's top 5 players it would be Carlton.

By any other objective and rational analysis, the answer is clearly Collingwood.

We're playing football, not basketball.
The top players at Carlton talent wise are up there with the best in the league.

But they have shown how good they are, yet can't seem to win the clutch games that matter, so leadership qualities are lacking, Collingwood on the other hand, don't have that top end talent Carlton have but seem to ooze with leadership qualities, so when it matters, Collingwood for me.
 

Arr0w

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Nov 13, 2015
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Carlton
Mainly here so we can enjoy the LOLs afterwards at the end of 2023, but also an interesting discussion point.

I’m in genuine two minds and can’t call it, but who do you see finishing higher in 2023?

Who is positioned better from a list/team perspective?

Let the games begin…

This will really fire up the natives mate

Tipping both sides will finish in a similar position

Edit - Could we add same amount of wins to the poll?
 

PieLebo87

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Sep 14, 2005
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Arr0w and WalshistheGOAT I didn’t want to make it a Pies v Blues thing in the other thread, so thought I’d get your views on below here.


I reckon this would make a good thread discussion on its own (Best 25 and under group) if it was possible for it to be kept civilised between the two supporter groups.

I still believe you’ve got a better list/list position than the Pies as Wright and co are still working on correcting the balance/blend of ours to boost that 23-27 year old batch.

The sub 25 list though I reckon we just pip you.

Carlton’s best ones (I’ll need to be corrected) are - Weitering, Silvagni, McKay, Setterfield, Fisher, Young, TDK, O’Brien, Cerra, Cottrell, Walsh, Durdin and Motlop.

Collingwood’s best ones are - Johnson, Lipinski, J Daicos, Kreuger, Murphy, Carmichael, Quaynor, Bianco, McCreery, Henry, Ginnivan and N Daicos.

The absolute standouts amongst the groups are McKay, Weitering, Walsh, Cerra, J Daicos, Lipinski, Ginnivan and N Daicos. Carlton with the superior standouts but then when looking at the remainder of each group, I think Collingwood’s remainder players have contributed more.

As mentioned above, would be a good topic to flesh out further, but not as clear cut as you would think that Carlton’s group is better.
 

JyeDye

Club Legend
May 16, 2017
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Arr0w and WalshistheGOAT I didn’t want to make it a Pies v Blues thing in the other thread, so thought I’d get your views on below here.
McKay, Walsh, Weitering, and Curnow is also only 25 already beat everyone else you put there for Collingwood. All of those players are AA level already, the only Collingwood player in that list I see nearing that level is N. Daicos.
 

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PieLebo87

Hall of Famer
Sep 14, 2005
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Collingwood
This will really fire up the natives mate

Tipping both sides will finish in a similar position
We’ll experience the best of both worlds - the ultimate trolling and some quality conversations.

Either way, some great potential for embarrassing bumps!
 

PieLebo87

Hall of Famer
Sep 14, 2005
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Collingwood
McKay, Walsh, Weitering, and Curnow is also only 25 already beat everyone else you put there for Collingwood. All of those players are AA level already, the only Collingwood player in that list I see nearing that level is N. Daicos.
With those 4 already firing, Carlton wasn’t able to get into the top 8.

Looking at the last encounter between the two sides, 4/7 of Collingwood’s best were 25 and under -


C6D75AC3-56E1-49C4-B92B-F6409CF198EC.jpeg
 

footyfan1978

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Aug 27, 2014
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there are no other teams worthy
Carlton top 4
Pies lucky if they make the 8
Pies rode their luck but also had very experienced veterans and probably finished above expectations but also excellent coach for year one.
No reason they cannot make top 8 unless a couple of Pendles, Siidebottom or Howe retire which I do not think any of them are.
I'd probably think they finish around 7th, just inside 8.

Think we should see our 23 to 27 year olds take another step forward so sky the limit especially if do not have the injuries we had in middle of season. Second year of Voss coach should see the style of play tweaked and defensive structure improve.
 

PieLebo87

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Sep 14, 2005
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The sub 25 list I reckon we just pip you.

Carlton’s best ones (I’ll need to be corrected) are - Weitering, Silvagni, McKay, Setterfield, Fisher, Young, TDK, O’Brien, Cerra, Cottrell, Walsh, Durdin and Motlop.

Collingwood’s best ones are - Johnson, Lipinski, J Daicos, Kreuger, Murphy, Carmichael, Quaynor, Bianco, McCreery, Henry, Ginnivan and N Daicos.

The absolute standouts amongst the groups are McKay, Weitering, Walsh, Cerra, J Daicos, Lipinski, Ginnivan and N Daicos. Carlton with the superior standouts but then when looking at the remainder of each group, I think Collingwood’s remainder players have contributed more.
 

TheUnicorn

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Nov 1, 2021
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It’s 50/50 for me, Carlton’s list should preform better than they did, and probably better than Collingwood next year. Collingwoods mentality is heads and shoulders above though.


If you could combine Collingwoods belief and determination and Carlton’s list you would win a premiership easily IMO. Still not sold on Voss either, McRae seems like a gem thus far.
 

footyfan1978

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there are no other teams worthy
The sub 25 list I reckon we just pip you.

Carlton’s best ones (I’ll need to be corrected) are - Weitering, Silvagni, McKay, Setterfield, Fisher, Young, TDK, O’Brien, Cerra, Cottrell, Walsh, Durdin and Motlop.
I not sure the exact age of most of these. All about the mark, but looks like you missed Charlie Curnow and David Cuningham that all from same draft as Weitering, McKay and Silvagni. Cuningham did his knee in 2021 so missed all of this season. Hopefully he back in 2023 and makes an excellent recovery like Curnow and Docherty did this season.
 

PieLebo87

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I not sure the exact age of most of these. All about the mark, but looks like you missed Charlie Curnow and David Cuningham that all from same draft as Weitering, McKay and Silvagni. Cuningham did his knee in 2021 so missed all of this season. Hopefully he back in 2023 and makes an excellent recovery like Curnow and Docherty did this season.
I’m fairly certain they’re all from 24 years and younger from oldest to youngest when responding to someone about the sub 25 list of both clubs.
 

Sky

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Pies rode their luck but also had very experienced veterans and probably finished above expectations but also excellent coach for year one.
No reason they cannot make top 8 unless a couple of Pendles, Siidebottom or Howe retire which I do not think any of them are.
I'd probably think they finish around 7th, just inside 8.

Think we should see our 23 to 27 year olds take another step forward so sky the limit especially if do not have the injuries we had in middle of season. Second year of Voss coach should see the style of play tweaked and defensive structure improve.
Do you think it’s more likely that one of Fremantle or WB drop out than Collingwood? I wouldn’t be surprised if all 3 did
 

JyeDye

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May 16, 2017
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With those 4 already firing, Carlton wasn’t able to get into the top 8.

Looking at the last encounter between the two sides, 4/7 of Collingwood’s best were 25 and under -


View attachment 1515644
There's nothing to suggest that they will slow down. I actually don't think out of that list anyone other then Curnow had their best season at all. So there's plenty of room for improvement there.
 

PieLebo87

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There's nothing to suggest that they will slow down. I actually don't think out of that list anyone other then Curnow had their best season at all. So there's plenty of room for improvement there.
Not necessarily slow down, but they’re playing unbelievably at the moment, thus the individual accolades. I can’t see the baggers expelling anymore out of these guys.

I’ve said it previously, your chances of a top 8 berth rest in the hands of the bottom 6 of your selected 22. You’ve always had quality top liners, and it’s always been a lack of leadership from the experience/contribution from your bottom 6 to follow the top liners that has been your demise.

Next year will be reliant on both those top players continuing to have bloody great seasons whilst also getting more out of the 16th to 22nd player on the ground. It’s not an easy challenge for Voss.

Pies best polled 11 Brownlow votes by comparison in a side that won 16 H&A wins which indicates the spread of the load is far more even, and far less is left to the top few. Roughead played just 1 game, Grundy played 6 games, Adams missed 7 games, Elliott and JDG missed 6 games each - all previously integral to our successes.

Everyone fixates on Collingwood’s winning margins/percentage but it means SFA because it’s incredibly unlikely we’ll get that many close games again next season. Plus, we’ve technically gone 10-8 in close games over the ‘21-‘22 seasons so it’s not like 2022 was the outlier - we had our fair share, and results didn’t go our way in 2021.