Welcome to East Germany Carlton and Collingwood - who finishes higher in 2023?

Who finishes higher?


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LoungeLizard

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 15, 2009
11,882
9,727
Gippsland
AFL Club
Collingwood
Interestingly enough, since John Wren passed away Collingwood have won 3 flags in 70 years.

Just a coincidence I am sure
That's your proof?

Can you explain why we still reach so many GF, then explain why your club hasn't even reached a GF since you got caught and penalised for CHEATING, and have since won 5 spoons, the most by any club in the history of the AFL?
 

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Arr0w

Hall of Famer
Nov 13, 2015
37,984
105,774
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
That's your proof?

Can you explain why we still reach so many GF, then explain why your club hasn't even reached a GF since you got caught and penalised for CHEATING, and have since won 5 spoons, the most by any club in the history of the AFL?

So you want to continue with the past?
 

carlton_99

Premiership Player
Oct 4, 2018
3,129
10,444
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Arsenal & NY Knicks
I didn't say that, show me where I said that?
You said you provided perspective on our 16 premierships in an earlier post. What was I meant to think. I have been speaking about this in my last five or so posts and you haven't corrected it.
 

Robertio

Ligma's Boyfriend
Sep 16, 2014
20,123
62,624
Argyle Victoria
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Ophidian Old Boys
Hahaha, you think I am changing the subject.

You CHEATED got caught and since then 0 flags 5 spoons.
That's where we got it wrong, Collo telling the boys to self report when Eddie was giving the boys jobs on TV and their partners jobs at Collingwood. Eddie and the Pies got away with murder.
 

Raging Blue

All Australian
Oct 11, 2016
613
2,470
Half Time 1970
AFL Club
Carlton
Carlton were a powerhouse club, no denying it, but what happened after they got penalised for CHEATING?

They have won 0 flags and 5 spoons, does that not make you wonder?

The rest of the league except Essendon have carried on as normal.
You obviously hate Carlton and have blinkers for the following reasons:
  • All clubs were cheating in the 80's & 90's. Some to larger degrees because they had more resources than others. Some got caught & others didn't. Making out Carlton were the only cheats in salary cap is just bias bullshit.
  • Essendon has been the only club to win premierships and were found to breach salary cap. In 1993 & 2000. Re 2000, Ricky Nixon 3 or 4 years ago stated that Loyld & Hird were on elaborate company structures. Ron Evans, an Essendon man was on the Commission/Chairman from 93 to 2007. A huge conflict of interest.
  • Hawthorn won premierships in 1971,75,78,83,86,88,89,91. Eight in 21 years & yet by the mid 90's were about to merge with Melbourne. They were broke??????????. A couple of years ago, Don Scott, the guy who saved them from merger stated that Hawthorn had devised an elaborate payment scheme via Tasmania in the 80's. This comment was swept under the table. How can a club that was so successful be on the brink? They would've had extra revenue from gate, sponsors, finals etc, and yet, were broke. Obviously a result from paying for great players over and above the rules. This really should have its own thread discussion.
  • In a Herald sun article a few years ago, it had a list of all the salary cap breaches by all clubs over the years. North was not on this list. A few years ago an ex North player from the 70's and a club director in the 90's was at my work. He basically said North had to pay Carey significantly under the table to keep him at the club.
  • In the late 80's Collingwood had their council rates paid by Carlton. Pies were broke even with packed attendances in that era.
  • You just hate Carlton because we beat you in the big finals ;)
 

LoungeLizard

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 15, 2009
11,882
9,727
Gippsland
AFL Club
Collingwood
You said you provided perspective on our 16 premierships in an earlier post. What was I meant to think
No I didn't show me, go get it and show me.

The only time I have said 16, is about your lot saying 16>15

All I have said is, there is evidence to question if Carlton were cheating before they were caught, because it does seem like it got halted quick smart, because since then, this big powerhouse club has been the worst in the league in the way of spoons.
 

LoungeLizard

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 15, 2009
11,882
9,727
Gippsland
AFL Club
Collingwood
You obviously hate Carlton and have blinkers for the following reasons:
  • All clubs were cheating in the 80's & 90's. Some to larger degrees because they had more resources than others. Some got caught & others didn't. Making out Carlton were the only cheats in salary cap is just bias bullshit.
  • Essendon has been the only club to win premierships and were found to breach salary cap. In 1993 & 2000. Re 2000, Ricky Nixon 3 or 4 years ago stated that Loyld & Hird were on elaborate company structures. Ron Evans, an Essendon man was on the Commission/Chairman from 93 to 2007. A huge conflict of interest.
  • Hawthorn won premierships in 1971,75,78,83,86,88,89,91. Eight in 21 years & yet by the mid 90's were about to merge with Melbourne. They were broke??????????. A couple of years ago, Don Scott, the guy who saved them from merger stated that Hawthorn had devised an elaborate payment scheme via Tasmania in the 80's. This comment was swept under the table. How can a club that was so successful be on the brink? They would've had extra revenue from gate, sponsors, finals etc, and yet, were broke. Obviously a result from paying for great players over and above the rules. This really should have its own thread discussion.
  • In a Herald sun article a few years ago, it had a list of all the salary cap breaches by all clubs over the years. North was not on this list. A few years ago an ex North player from the 70's and a club director in the 90's was at my work. He basically said North had to pay Carey significantly under the table to keep him at the club.
  • In the late 80's Collingwood had their council rates paid by Carlton. Pies were broke even with packed attendances in that era.
  • You just hate Carlton because we beat you in the big finals ;)
OK, that's fine, but it doesn't seem to have hampered all clubs, just Carlton and Essendon.
 

Robertio

Ligma's Boyfriend
Sep 16, 2014
20,123
62,624
Argyle Victoria
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Ophidian Old Boys
No I didn't show me, go get it and show me.

The only time I have said 16, is about your lot saying 16>15

All I have said is, there is evidence to question if Carlton were cheating before they were caught, because it does seem like it got halted quick smart, because since then, this big powerhouse club has been the worst in the league in the way of spoons.
Mate even you could work out that we lost draft picks then from 2010 the clubs down the bottom were put at a great disadvantage with the draft when Gold Coast and GWS came in.
 

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LoungeLizard

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 15, 2009
11,882
9,727
Gippsland
AFL Club
Collingwood
That's where we got it wrong, Collo telling the boys to self report when Eddie was giving the boys jobs on TV and their partners jobs at Collingwood. Eddie and the Pies got away with murder.
Yeah maybe, but it still doesn't answer why it all stopped for Carlton, what I am asking is did you need to cheat to win, there is evidence to say the answer is yes.

The other clubs, if they were also cheating, moved on and it didn't effect them.
 

blueboy25

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 14, 2006
7,966
10,260
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
West Perth, Tottenham
There you go again with the NO evidence, it's all there documented, I could dig them up if you would like.
Could you please confirm in which one of our 16 Premiership years we were found guilty of cheating the salary cap?
 

Robertio

Ligma's Boyfriend
Sep 16, 2014
20,123
62,624
Argyle Victoria
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Ophidian Old Boys
Yeah maybe, but it still doesn't answer why it all stopped for Carlton, what I am asking is did you need to cheat to win, there is evidence to say the answer is yes.

The other clubs, if they were also cheating, moved on and it didn't effect them.
We lost some decent draft picks and then from 2009 through to 2014 (Cripps aside) were hopeless at identifying talent. had nothing to do with cheating.
 

Arr0w

Hall of Famer
Nov 13, 2015
37,984
105,774
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
Yeah maybe, but it still doesn't answer why it all stopped for Carlton, what I am asking is did you need to cheat to win, there is evidence to say the answer is yes.

The other clubs, if they were also cheating, moved on and it didn't effect them.

Didn't effect other clubs? What crap

Dons, Saints, Dockers, North, Crows, did I miss these clubs winning a flag in the last 22 years

And those dominant Pies, 1 flag
 

LoungeLizard

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 15, 2009
11,882
9,727
Gippsland
AFL Club
Collingwood
We lost some decent draft picks and then from 2009 through to 2014 (Cripps aside) were hopeless at identifying talent. had nothing to do with cheating.
Yeah it's fair you Carlton lot believe all this is the reason, it's just normal.

All I am saying is the time line and all show there may be other reasons.
 

carlton_99

Premiership Player
Oct 4, 2018
3,129
10,444
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Arsenal & NY Knicks
No I didn't show me, go get it and show me.

The only time I have said 16, is about your lot saying 16>15

All I have said is, there is evidence to question if Carlton were cheating before they were caught, because it does seem like it got halted quick smart, because since then, this big powerhouse club has been the worst in the league in the way of spoons.
If I had assumed incorrectly what you meant with your post about 16 premierships you could have easily corrected me and clarified what you meant. With your 2nd point once again you have ignored all the factors that have contirbuted to our poor performances. Saying its because of the scandal is crazy to me - club made many errors since that point which contributed significantly to our failures. Its almost like you are providing a cop out for the club's mistakes in the last two decades