Welcome to East Germany Carlton and Collingwood - who finishes higher in 2023?

Who finishes higher?


  • Total voters
    378
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Kreuuuzeurns

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 25, 2013
9,563
17,368
AFL Club
Carlton
Interestingly enough, since John Wren passed away Collingwood have won 3 flags in 70 years.

Just a coincidence I am sure

There was a thread on here a few years ago where a poster did his own investigation on the 1935 Grand Final.

Very interesting read, aligns with Collingwood’s shady history.
 

LoungeLizard

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 15, 2009
11,882
9,727
Gippsland
AFL Club
Collingwood
If I had assumed incorrectly what you meant with your post about 16 premierships you could have easily corrected me and clarified what you meant. With your 2nd point once again you have ignored all the factors that have contirbuted to pur poor performances. Saying its because of the scandal is crazy to me - club made many errors since that point which contributed significantly to our failures. Its almost like you are providing a cop out for the club's mistakes in the last two decades
Yeah, all those errors just started to happen AFTER you got penalised for CHEATING.
 

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Arr0w

Hall of Famer
Nov 13, 2015
37,984
105,774
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
FMD, we are basing what happened 20 years ago as an indication of what will transpire in 2023

Then same posters get salty when you retort with other events in the past

Glorious
 

LoungeLizard

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 15, 2009
11,882
9,727
Gippsland
AFL Club
Collingwood
Yes clubs can make mistakes. As a Pies fan I would have thought you would know all about a club making mistakes
Yeah but the time line and all?

Do think I am naive enough to think only Carlton cheated and no other club make mistakes.

The question I am asking is there a connection to getting caught and penalised to winning 0 flags and 5 spoons when they used to get flags regular.
 

LoungeLizard

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 15, 2009
11,882
9,727
Gippsland
AFL Club
Collingwood
Don't ask for evidence, the lizard doesn't like that but is happy to ask for it when old mate John Wren is mentioned.
But there is evidence for what I am saying, would you like I go dig some up?

If you want to make a claim we have been losing GF's because we were cheating and now can't, fine, i'm happy for you to, but show us a bit of evidence.
 

carlton_99

Premiership Player
Oct 4, 2018
3,129
10,444
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Arsenal & NY Knicks
Yeah but the time line and all?

Do think I am naive enough to think only Carlton cheated and no other club make mistakes.

The question I am asking is there a connection to getting caught and penalised to winning 0 flags and 5 spoons when they used to get flags regular.
And I have already answered that question. If you want to ignore what I've said that is your right but in that case there is no pt continuing this discussion
 

LoungeLizard

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 15, 2009
11,882
9,727
Gippsland
AFL Club
Collingwood
And I have already answered that question. If you want to ignore what I've said that is your right but in that case there is no pt continuing this discussion
No i'm not ignoring what you said, you like saying that, that is your reason, I said, that's fine, but there is also another chance something else was at play, the timeline suggests it's a very real possibility.

It's just very, very suspicious your club started making all these mistakes AFTER getting caught, not before.
 

Arr0w

Hall of Famer
Nov 13, 2015
37,984
105,774
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
No i'm not ignoring what you said, you like saying that, that is your reason, I said, that's fine, but there is also another chance something else was at play, the timeline suggests it's a very real possibility.

It's just very, very suspicious your club started making all these mistakes AFTER getting caught, not before.

You really are salty, if this is the only reason you can lean on to determine future events

But, we all know your club's mental fragility has been prevalent since WW2, is that the reason?
 

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Robertio

Ligma's Boyfriend
Sep 16, 2014
20,123
62,620
Argyle Victoria
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Ophidian Old Boys
No i'm not ignoring what you said, you like saying that, that is your reason, I said, that's fine, but there is also another chance something else was at play, the timeline suggests it's a very real possibility.

It's just very, very suspicious your club started making all these mistakes AFTER getting caught, not before.
We were only charged for a couple of years, 1995 not being one of them so what you are implying is way off the mark.
 

doppleganger

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 4, 2005
18,800
11,363
Putney
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood
30 years of 0 premierships is a down period in my book. Guess we just look at things differently.
Are you one of the Ricky Bobby if you aint first your last nuffies??

I see a distinct difference to consistently playing in GFs v consistently winning spoons.
 

doppleganger

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 4, 2005
18,800
11,363
Putney
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood
Yep our 16 premierships are all due to salary cap breaches. Gosh sounds like a mighty big accusation with no evidence whatsover. Anyway if making up stuff is the only way you can deal with Carlton being the equal most successful club in the history of the VFL/AFL then that's fine. The delusion of some Collingwood supporters never ceases to amaze me
They arent due to salary breaches, as their wasnt a salary cap to breach in the 70s and 80s.

Baggers had one of the best country zones, and then just paid more than other clubs to buy flags.

When a level playing field introduced, Carlton turned to s**t, or had a "down period".
 

carlton_99

Premiership Player
Oct 4, 2018
3,129
10,444
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Arsenal & NY Knicks
Are you one of the Ricky Bobby if you aint first your last nuffies??

I see a distinct difference to consistently playing in GFs v consistently winning spoons.
I wasnt saying your down years were equivalent to ours. However you went from winning 13 GFs in 50 years to 0 in 30 years. So if you had a down period in your history that would be it.
 

La Dispute

La Dispute
Suspended
Jul 14, 2005
18,605
29,319
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Chelsea FC
If Collingwood won all the Grand Finals they’d competed in during Carlton’s period of trash they’d be runaway flag leaders on 18 premierships.

Luckily they’re confirmed finals chokers and still sit behind the very best.

16 > 15.
 

Tulip

Hall of Famer
May 3, 2009
35,699
32,534
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Tottenham
I think Carlton will win the flag and Collingwood will finish 5th or 6th. Good times to come for both sides in the next few years.
 

YeoShuey

Club Legend
Aug 24, 2020
1,455
2,020
AFL Club
West Coast
Pies finished top 4 and are only one point better than Carlton and you are saying we are a basket case, go figure.

I actually hate this argument.

Same logic can be applied to a team like North Melbourne. North Melbourne lost to Collingwood by 7 and beat Richmond this year, so does that mean that the gap between 4 and 18th is only 7 points? That’s why I don’t use individual matches as a basis.

I mean it is clear that Carlton are the much better team but you need a better argument than that 🤣
 

Robertio

Ligma's Boyfriend
Sep 16, 2014
20,123
62,620
Argyle Victoria
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Ophidian Old Boys
I actually hate this argument.

Same logic can be applied to a team like North Melbourne. North Melbourne lost to Collingwood by 7 and beat Richmond this year, so does that mean that the gap between 4 and 18th is only 7 points? That’s why I don’t use individual matches as a basis.

I mean it is clear that Carlton are the much better team but you need a better argument than that 🤣
Get into the spirit of the thread mate, anything that's even remotely correct or intellegent is not required here.