Welcome to East Germany Carlton and Collingwood - who finishes higher in 2023? Collingwood Ofcourse

[Elmer_Judd]

Plot Twist - Blues and Pies play off in the Grand Final and everyone else (who is not a Blue Bagger or a Carringbush die hard) goes into a major meltdown mode

Seriously, won't happen next year, but I am pretty confident a Carlton v Collingwood Grand Final will happen again within the next 3-4 years, footy's greatest, historic and most important rivarly.

 

[JustaBattler]

Defensive slow risk averse etc

Buckley 2012-2017
Buckley 2019-2021
Scott 2012-2021

Offensive high tempo daring etc

Buckley 2018
Scott 2022
Mcrae 2022

They all copied the Richmunts mate who have the defensive game to get away with it;
and unlike Ratten at Carlton -2012 and Teague who learned at Adelaide and then tried the joe the goose game with no defensive effort at Carlton...

there is nothing 'new' ...

 

[BringouttheGimp]

They all copied the Richmunts mate who have the defensive game to get away with it;
and unlike Ratten at Carlton -2012 and Teague who learned at Adelaide and then tried the joe the goose game with no defensive effort at Carlton...

there is nothing 'new' ...

You should play up tempo football regardless.. why? Expose deficiencies in your backline. Don't play pretend. What.. for an 8th spot. And then what? Keep it real. Look to trade/draft players to feel in the spots. Playing for premierships here. The goal is to get your defence as mint as possible.. then really up the tempo.. move the ball quickly.. lose it on the wing.. they still have to get it past your defence.

 

[Arr0w]

You should play up tempo football regardless.. why? Expose deficiencies in your backline. Don't play pretend. What.. for an 8th spot. And then what? Keep it real. Look to trade/draft players to feel in the spots. Playing for premierships here. The goal is to get your defence as mint as possible.. then really up the tempo.. move the ball quickly.. lose it on the wing.. they still have to get it past your defence.

Think you have our 2022 gameplan as the finished product, which isn't the case.

Coming out of the Teague era, which was only attack at all costs, wasn't tailored to our personnel.

Voss stated that the first year would be to get back to basics, win the ball at the contest.

I have no doubt that more attacking layers will be added, what that looks like, time will tell

 

[Carringbush2010]

Plot Twist - Blues and Pies play off in the Grand Final and everyone else (who is not a Blue Bagger or a Carringbush die hard) goes into a major meltdown mode

Seriously, won't happen next year, but I am pretty confident a Carlton v Collingwood Grand Final will happen again within the next 3-4 years, footy's greatest, historic and most important rivarly.

I dunno if I could watch, I might flatline.

Could only watch the replay if the result went our way................. to this day I can't bring myself to watch the 2nd half of 2018

 

[Carringbush2010]

Think you have our 2022 gameplan as the finished product, which isn't the case.

Coming out of the Teague era, which was only attack at all costs, wasn't tailored to our personnel.

Voss stated that the first year would be to get back to basics, win the ball at the contest.

I have no doubt that more attacking layers will be added, what that looks like, time will tell

Unfortunately I have to agree, the blose will improve their game. In fact I think the Pies will too, both teams have improvement - the Pies have young and raw talent that aren't finished in their trajectory. How far that goes will be found out in time.

The blose have much more upside to their game IMO, there's so much potential there talent wise and Voss has only been in the chair one off season and season proper.

Same with Fly, what's even more intriguing is how well do they know each other from a tactical perspective.

I have both fear and optimism.......... too hard to decipher really.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Think you have our 2022 gameplan as the finished product, which isn't the case.

Coming out of the Teague era, which was only attack at all costs, wasn't tailored to our personnel.

Voss stated that the first year would be to get back to basics, win the ball at the contest.

I have no doubt that more attacking layers will be added, what that looks like, time will tell

Just let the players be themselves and then just let it rip. Take it to another dimension man.

When you can say.. oh there's John.. and there's Paul and Ringo.. and oh that's George.. all harmonising with each other.. trusting each other.. it's a real thing of beauty man. What do you think made the Beatles one of the greatest bands of all time? First day of training.. get the lads in for our first team meaning.. get the white board out and write.. we're the Beatles man. Hard to beat man. That's what I'd be doing.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Think you have our 2022 gameplan as the finished product, which isn't the case.

Coming out of the Teague era, which was only attack at all costs, wasn't tailored to our personnel.

Voss stated that the first year would be to get back to basics, win the ball at the contest.

I have no doubt that more attacking layers will be added, what that looks like, time will tell

21st Century footy has not been tailored to the passing parade of Carlton players and game plans.

 

[Arr0w]

21st Century footy has not been tailored to the passing parade of Carlton players and game plans.

And some parades are like road trips

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Carlton's still lining up at the 21st Century dance club for a bit of funky town on the revolving dancefloor mate.. free drink cards and $3 specials mate.. I hate to break it to yas.. but it's been closed for quite some time now.. ya know.

 

[JyeDye]

Did 2 whole pages get deleted? Who was a naughty boy in here.

 

[timokane]

2023 Collingwood to finish 4th and Carlton 6th or 7th.

But in say 2025 i tend to agree that both teams are on track to play each other in the 2025 Grand Final.

Carlton to me 2023 need to make it happen and 2024 will be the building on and 2025 GF time

Collingwood 2023 is the transiton bridging year for them and 2024 to become the promised land territory and 2025 right in that premiership window.

Both are on similar paths.

Pies just seam to have a better structured club feel and set up for mine and the blues its the making ameands and ironing out the cresses left from 2022.

Collingwood and Carlton are both back and both are forming into top teams

 

[JyeDye]

Half of Collingwood's team will retire in the next couple of years. I don't think they're going to be making finals let alone the GF.

 

[timokane]

Well yes but say i can think of 4 pendles howe sidy and mitchell thats about it

 

[timokane]

also cox that 5 and that it

 

[JyeDye]

Well yes but say i can think of 4 pendles howe sidy and mitchell thats about it

Mitchell is the same age or younger then Elliot, Mihocek, Adams and Crisp. So there's another 4 that will most likely be either gone or giving significantly less output. 8 out of a starting 18. But I'm sure you guys will be absolutely firing for a GF in 2025.

 

[JustaBattler]

Collingwood have as much chance of making the 8 and winning a flag ( maybe more so maybe not) as Carlton in 23 - that is focusing on the 'now'.
Pendelbury and Sidebottom are aces up their sleeves that Carlton does not have - their combined IQ is a factor that needs to be taken into consideration and as a team their demonstrated ability ( and willingness) to pull the trigger on the long dangerous kick from HBF to just forward of the center square in. rebound situations - their kicking is a smart response to the high field press and they have the kicking skill to execute.

This sucks in defenders forward to protect that kick and if they don't they allow a one on one with a DeGoey to ensue as Richmond did with Martin...if defenders try and wander too far down field they expose space behind and to the sides - this is where Sidebottom and Elliott and Ginivan thrive.

The ability to pull the trigger on the so called 'hail mary' long bullet via their rebound kicking means that swarming defensive and zone systems become vulnerable as the game progresses and teams tire.

Collingwood have gone from boring sideways backwards stoopid and silly under Buckley to an organised aggressive attacking kicking game - looking to go forwards at every opportunity. It is also no accident that Geelong won a flag by adopting a more direct and attacking game.

Carlton isnt that far behind this game-style ability - but putting in place requires more talent on the wings and HFF - which is where Collingwood had the primary advantage over Carlton in 22.

Voss wants an attacking direct game style as well - it will help if the key players able to execute run and carry as well as dangerous long kicks are available to play - thee ability to kick pin point flat bullets over 40 meters isn't common - Collingwood have a defensive rebound kicking game that is a cut above most sides.

Carlton's advantage will be in the midfield - Cripps/Cerra/Kennedy/Hewett/Walsh as a combination have the strength and size to monster most midfields and dominate contested ball - adding outside run and improving HFF to finals quality will see a big change in the all round game style of Carlton.

I consider the absence of Boyd, Williams, Walsh, Kennedy , Hewett in particular as speaking to the relative strengths of both sides much more than the one point loss.

If Voss can fix the wings and make the HFF more effective - this will dramatically change the all round game plan and execution ability of Carlton - I see more upside potential in Carlton team - than Collingwood because of these reasons. That is not to say that Collingwood wont be a strong team - their defensive and rebound capability is very strong.

 

[Bianconeri]

Half of Collingwood's team will retire in the next couple of years. I don't think they're going to be making finals let alone the GF.

We’ve only got three retirements in the next couple of years to worry about, the rest have a fair few years still in them.

 

[timokane]

Elliot, Mihocek, Adams and Crisp ill say prime time adams seams to be getting more injury prone but still got a few years in him at least see how he overcomes his injury issues the rest are all good

 

[timokane]

agree only really 3 the rest have heaps of years left

 

[timokane]

all i know the first Pies and Blues game in 2023 could have the potential to be a crowd of 100k if both are going well at the time and become the biggest mcg home and away match at the mcg for say the last 30 odd years.

i can re call the last timer the mcg filled it with 100k for a home and away match i can remember alot of 90k odd crowds or even 97 98k but i canrt recall it cracking the magic 100k

100k mcg i think of prelims and grand finals like the very last 2 weeks of the whole season and like only 4 teams left and in the gf sense only 2

Late 90s and early 00s we saw big crowds pies blues but just before they renovated half the mcg.

To me 2002 and 2004 days were best but we only had half the mcg which is a shame.

2023 im tipping a 100k pies blues match first up at the mcg.

 

[Sky]

Nothing has changed this thread lives on and Carlton >>> Collingwood

 

[Carringbush2010]

Collingwood have as much chance of making the 8 and winning a flag ( maybe more so maybe not) as Carlton in 23 - that is focusing on the 'now'.
Pendelbury and Sidebottom are aces up their sleeves that Carlton does not have - their combined IQ is a factor that needs to be taken into consideration and as a team their demonstrated ability ( and willingness) to pull the trigger on the long dangerous kick from HBF to just forward of the center square in. rebound situations - their kicking is a smart response to the high field press and they have the kicking skill to execute.

This sucks in defenders forward to protect that kick and if they don't they allow a one on one with a DeGoey to ensue as Richmond did with Martin...if defenders try and wander too far down field they expose space behind and to the sides - this is where Sidebottom and Elliott and Ginivan thrive.

The ability to pull the trigger on the so called 'hail mary' long bullet via their rebound kicking means that swarming defensive and zone systems become vulnerable as the game progresses and teams tire.

Collingwood have gone from boring sideways backwards stoopid and silly under Buckley to an organised aggressive attacking kicking game - looking to go forwards at every opportunity. It is also no accident that Geelong won a flag by adopting a more direct and attacking game.

Carlton isnt that far behind this game-style ability - but putting in place requires more talent on the wings and HFF - which is where Collingwood had the primary advantage over Carlton in 22.

Voss wants an attacking direct game style as well - it will help if the key players able to execute run and carry as well as dangerous long kicks are available to play - thee ability to kick pin point flat bullets over 40 meters isn't common - Collingwood have a defensive rebound kicking game that is a cut above most sides.

Carlton's advantage will be in the midfield - Cripps/Cerra/Kennedy/Hewett/Walsh as a combination have the strength and size to monster most midfields and dominate contested ball - adding outside run and improving HFF to finals quality will see a big change in the all round game style of Carlton.

I consider the absence of Boyd, Williams, Walsh, Kennedy , Hewett in particular as speaking to the relative strengths of both sides much more than the one point loss.

If Voss can fix the wings and make the HFF more effective - this will dramatically change the all round game plan and execution ability of Carlton - I see more upside potential in Carlton team - than Collingwood because of these reasons. That is not to say that Collingwood wont be a strong team - their defensive and rebound capability is very strong.

That's a pretty good assessment of what we've seen this year, and it displays that Fly's game is not necessarily personnel reliant. The weakness for the Pies has been contest / clearance game - they've relied on closing space after the fact, a strength against most sides including the blose.

The absence of Tay and Grundy has meant we've had to resort to using Degs for clearances, he did well in this area, particularly in finals but it's not his one wood. This is where the acquisition of Mitchell comes in, this allows our outside players to play outside game (hopefully)

Carlton have the beasts for both inside and outside game, very good at the contest with guys like Cripps, Kennedy, Cera etc.

Just need to sharpen their attack game on the ball win IMO.

If I could summarize, I'd say the Pies game is further ahead in trajectory and there's more upside to the blose. That's not to say that the Pies game is a finished product that won't improve - they've traded in to improve the plan. The result we don't know yet.

The blose just need to chip off the rough edges of their game, they've got the talent on the park already (with depth)

 

[JyeDye]

all i know the first Pies and Blues game in 2023 could have the potential to be a crowd of 100k if both are going well at the time and become the biggest mcg home and away match at the mcg for say the last 30 odd years.

i can re call the last timer the mcg filled it with 100k for a home and away match i can remember alot of 90k odd crowds or even 97 98k but i canrt recall it cracking the magic 100k

100k mcg i think of prelims and grand finals like the very last 2 weeks of the whole season and like only 4 teams left and in the gf sense only 2

Late 90s and early 00s we saw big crowds pies blues but just before they renovated half the mcg.

To me 2002 and 2004 days were best but we only had half the mcg which is a shame.

2023 im tipping a 100k pies blues match first up at the mcg.

Just hope it's on a Saturday night so I can fly down for it.

 

[Sky]

all i know the first Pies and Blues game in 2023 could have the potential to be a crowd of 100k if both are going well at the time and become the biggest mcg home and away match at the mcg for say the last 30 odd years.

i can re call the last timer the mcg filled it with 100k for a home and away match i can remember alot of 90k odd crowds or even 97 98k but i canrt recall it cracking the magic 100k

100k mcg i think of prelims and grand finals like the very last 2 weeks of the whole season and like only 4 teams left and in the gf sense only 2

Late 90s and early 00s we saw big crowds pies blues but just before they renovated half the mcg.

To me 2002 and 2004 days were best but we only had half the mcg which is a shame.

2023 im tipping a 100k pies blues match first up at the mcg.

Can’t see it happening if the capacity is 100,024 unless we are counting anything over 99,500 as 100k. It’s not a grand final so at least 25 people will no show