Welcome to East Germany Carlton and Collingwood - who finishes higher in 2023? Collingwood Ofcourse

Who finishes higher?


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Apr 18, 2015
21,055
25,576
AFL Club
Collingwood
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PAOK of SALONIKA LIVERPOOL
Hollands gets picked by Carlton. Double fist pump, massive smile, hugs from all the family. He's just ecstatic to be joining such a great club.

Allen gets picked by Collingwood. Literal tears down his face, parents are clearly upset. Going to be going home in a couple years, I don't know why they would pick a WA boy when their culture is so s**t they can't even maintain someone from Geelong.

How many Collingwood players.. of their own volition.. requested a trade back home to WA SA NSW etc?
 
May 16, 2017
3,977
9,630
Brisbane
AFL Club
Carlton
How many Collingwood players.. of their own volition.. requested a trade back home to WA SA NSW etc?
Don't know, don't care. Glad you added the 'of their own volition' part though, good to see some semblance of self awareness in your terrible list management strategies. But ask me again in 2 years and we can add another to the tally.
 

Kreuuuzeurns

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 25, 2013
14,370
28,000
AFL Club
Carlton
Hollands gets picked by Carlton. Double fist pump, massive smile, hugs from all the family. He's just ecstatic to be joining such a great club.

Allen gets picked by Collingwood. Literal tears down his face, parents are clearly upset. Going to be going home in a couple years, I don't know why they would pick a WA boy when their culture is so s**t they can't even maintain someone from Geelong.

Not only that, they then go and trade Carlton the rights to the best Tasmanian prospect since Ian Stewart for pick 36 in 12 months time.

Is Ned Guy still calling the shots?
 
Apr 18, 2015
21,055
25,576
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
PAOK of SALONIKA LIVERPOOL
Don't know, don't care. Glad you added the 'of their own volition' part though, good to see some semblance of self awareness in your terrible list management strategies. But ask me again in 2 years and we can add another to the tally.

You don't know?

Ok

Will you at least acknowledge it is a rare event?
 

manicpie

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 19, 2019
10,966
17,663
AFL Club
Collingwood
Don't know, don't care. Glad you added the 'of their own volition' part though, good to see some semblance of self awareness in your terrible list management strategies. But ask me again in 2 years and we can add another to the tally.
Our terrible list management has had us playing a s**t load of finals in the last few years, remind again why your list management is better?
 
May 16, 2017
3,977
9,630
Brisbane
AFL Club
Carlton
Our terrible list management has had us playing a s**t load of finals in the last few years, remind again why your list management is better?
Congrats on participating in a few finals, guess that puts you up there with some absolute powerhouses of the competition in the last 6 years like the Brisbane Lions or Port Adelaide. Don't see those teams paying any other teams to play their players though, so I guess they're still ahead.
 

manicpie

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 19, 2019
10,966
17,663
AFL Club
Collingwood
Congrats on participating in a few finals, guess that puts you up there with some absolute powerhouses of the competition in the last 6 years like the Brisbane Lions or Port Adelaide. Don't see those teams paying any other teams to play their players though, so I guess they're still ahead.
Let's go back to the goal posts. Have we played in a s**t load of finals in the last few years?. 2= how many finals have you even made in the last few years. Remember, you said our list management is poor yet here we are
 
May 16, 2017
3,977
9,630
Brisbane
AFL Club
Carlton
Let's go back to the goal posts. Have we played in a s**t load of finals in the last few years?. 2= how many finals have you even made in the last few years. Remember, you said our list management is poor yet here we are
So you've been able develop a somewhat better then mediocre list that has been slightly better then 10 other clubs. Congrats, I'm sure that's what every list manager sets out to do when they get the job. Strive for some genuine success ffs.
 

Fadge

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 4, 2007
17,858
17,254
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Let's go back to the goal posts. Have we played in a s**t load of finals in the last few years?. 2= how many finals have you even made in the last few years. Remember, you said our list management is poor yet here we are
Carlton's great list management strategy:

1. Pay a handful of players a truckload of money to keep them satisfied despite not playing finals.

2. Fill the remainder of your list with players who feel fortunate to be on an AFL list, and are not attractive to opposition clubs.

3. Continually fail to make finals so as to avoid the salary cap pressures experienced by better clubs.

Has worked a charm in recent times!
 

Fadge

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 4, 2007
17,858
17,254
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
So you've been able develop a somewhat better then mediocre list that has been slightly better then 10 other clubs. Congrats, I'm sure that's what every list manager sets out to do when they get the job. Strive for some genuine success ffs.
Every list manager strives to build a list to contend for a premiership/s.

Once you're in contention, it all boils down to how it all comes together in September.

The only team in recent times that has been materially better than all opposition clubs has been Geelong between 2007 and 2011.
 

manicpie

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 19, 2019
10,966
17,663
AFL Club
Collingwood
Carlton's great list management strategy:

1. Pay a handful of players a truckload of money to keep them satisfied despite not playing finals.

2. Fill the remainder of your list with players who feel fortunate to be on an AFL list, and are not attractive to opposition clubs.

3. Continually fail to make finals so as to avoid the salary cap pressures experienced by better clubs.

Has worked a charm in recent times!
I'm just having a bit of fun but old mates theory about list management is really bad
 
May 16, 2017
3,977
9,630
Brisbane
AFL Club
Carlton
Carlton's great list management strategy:

1. Pay a handful of players a truckload of money to keep them satisfied despite not playing finals.

2. Fill the remainder of your list with players who feel fortunate to be on an AFL list, and are not attractive to opposition clubs.

3. Continually fail to make finals so as to avoid the salary cap pressures experienced by better clubs.

Has worked a charm in recent times!
These players that are getting paid a 'truckload of money' are 22, 24, 25, 25 and Cripps being the oldest at 27. But sure, it's all failed, even though it's barely even started.
 

Fadge

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 4, 2007
17,858
17,254
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
These players that are getting paid a 'truckload of money' are 22, 24, 25, 25 and Cripps being the oldest at 27. But sure, it's all failed, even though it's barely even started.
Before the current crop - Williams, McGovern, Martin, Cripps.

And before that - Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer.

There's a distinct pattern there - shallow lists do not contend.
 
Apr 18, 2015
21,055
25,576
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
PAOK of SALONIKA LIVERPOOL
Cam Cloke for 36 pearlers. Daisy.. 101.. albeit.. it did take him a while to get going.. he did play reasonable footy for Carlton in the end after finding his niche in a back pocket. 3 of the best from Mick Mcguane. 3 1/2 great years of the Malt. We've played our little part to keep the rivalry alive. It's not as if we.. doon't care.. it's not as if we.. doon't care.
 
Last edited:
May 16, 2017
3,977
9,630
Brisbane
AFL Club
Carlton
Before the current crop - Williams, McGovern, Martin, Cripps.

And before that - Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer.

There's a distinct pattern there - shallow lists do not contend.
The top line are all still in our team. How are we paying a truckload to them, and all the new crop? Makes no sense all.

The bottom line didn't get there. But they did make some finals, win a few as well. So I guess maybe they were successful if we use Collingwood definitions.
 
May 16, 2017
3,977
9,630
Brisbane
AFL Club
Carlton
Every list manager strives to build a list to contend for a premiership/s.

Once you're in contention, it all boils down to how it all comes together in September.

The only team in recent times that has been materially better than all opposition clubs has been Geelong between 2007 and 2011.
Yes, so Richmond win 3 premierships in 4 years, but they weren't the materially best list in the league. Hawthorn win 3 in a row, not the best list in the league. I assume this is to somehow talk up Collingwood's 2010 flag and why you didn't win more?
 

Fadge

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 4, 2007
17,858
17,254
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Yes, so Richmond win 3 premierships in 4 years, but they weren't the materially best list in the league. Hawthorn win 3 in a row, not the best list in the league. I assume this is to somehow talk up Collingwood's 2010 flag and why you didn't win more?
Richmond never finished top of the ladder in any of their premiership years, and required extended winning sequences in the tail end of home and away matches in two of their premiership seasons just to secure their top 4 position. Ironically, the only year they were clearly a class above for the majority of the season was 2018, when they didn't even make the Grand Final.

Hawthorn finished top of the ladder once between 2013 and 2015, and in that year qualified for the Grand Final with a 5 point Preliminary Final win. They also had a 3 point Prelim win in 2013, and got belted in their 2015 Qualifying Final.

So no, neither side were clearly head and shoulders above the rest during their dynasty years, and shows how important luck and momentum are when it comes to winning premierships. As per my earlier point.

Carlton supporters might discover this one day...
 
Nov 13, 2015
46,408
133,595
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
Yes, so Richmond win 3 premierships in 4 years, but they weren't the materially best list in the league. Hawthorn win 3 in a row, not the best list in the league. I assume this is to somehow talk up Collingwood's 2010 flag and why you didn't win more?

Fadge is still trying to justify the Pies being a force by participating in finals, while diminishing the output of sides that have won 3peats and 3 flags in 4 years

Again, facts are, we have won the same amount of flags in the last 3 decades
 
May 16, 2017
3,977
9,630
Brisbane
AFL Club
Carlton
Richmond never finished top of the ladder in any of their premiership years, and required extended winning sequences in the tail end of home and away matches in two of their premiership seasons just to secure their top 4 position. Ironically, the only year they were clearly a class above for the majority of the season was 2018, when they didn't even make the Grand Final.

Hawthorn finished top of the ladder once between 2013 and 2015, and in that year qualified for the Grand Final with a 5 point Preliminary Final win. They also had a 3 point Prelim win in 2013, and got belted in their 2015 Qualifying Final.

So no, neither side were clearly head and shoulders above the rest during their dynasty years, and shows how important luck and momentum are when it comes to winning premierships. As per my earlier point.

Carlton supporters might discover this one day...
Obviously momentum and luck are important to win a premiership. But these are dynasty's, I didn't put up a team like 2016 Bulldogs or 2018 WCE. You are saying these teams didn't have the best lists during their time periods because they happened to not finish on top of the ladder, and had to win some close games. Who cares? They won the whole god damn league 3 times, I'm pretty sure they weren't just 'lucky' three times. You're actually arguing that 3x Premiership teams didn't have the best lists at the time, jesus man, this is delusion.
 

Fadge

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 4, 2007
17,858
17,254
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Obviously momentum and luck are important to win a premiership. But these are dynasty's, I didn't put up a team like 2016 Bulldogs or 2018 WCE. You are saying these teams didn't have the best lists during their time periods because they happened to not finish on top of the ladder, and had to win some close games. Who cares? They won the whole god damn league 3 times, I'm pretty sure they weren't just 'lucky' three times. You're actually arguing that 3x Premiership teams didn't have the best lists at the time, jesus man, this is delusion.
I'm saying they weren't MATERIALLY ahead of every other team in the competition in the same way Geelong was.

Because they weren't.
 

Branko

Draftee
Dec 1, 2022
9
11
AFL Club
Richmond
Carlton has a long way to go before they can even be considered to make the 8, Collingwood will definitely make the 8, so this one is easy, Collingwood.
 

Kreuuuzeurns

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 25, 2013
14,370
28,000
AFL Club
Carlton
Harry Lemmey was the Pies best chance at a star tall forward since Sav Rocca, taken right from under their noses to a club that knows how to develop KPP.

And they’ll be scratching their heads in 12 months time wondering why they’ve fallen short for the 63rd time in 65 years.

Time will tell as to whether Mighty Mcstay will be the answer.
 
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