Carlton and Melbourne - who has the greater supporter base

AstuteTiger

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I remember 2013 well there were 35 to 40K blues fans albiet we finished 9th and scraped in after we beat port by a point the week before. So that combined with the fact you had much higher member numbers affected the crowd split. North had good representation in 2015 easy 30 to 35K Kangas. That leaves the Gws final like I said the final of a lifetime for the tigers and yes any vic team is capable of getting a crowd like that under similar circumstances. Like North in 74 and 75, Essendon in 83 blues in 86 (Bruce Doull farewell) Collingwood 1990 Cats 2007 etc..
In 2013 i had Carlton supporters saying their was like 70K tigers the noise was deafening when we came out but 65K tigers to 30K blues sounds about right.
Carlton fans didnt buy up their whole allocation so tigers fans bought into it hence the crazy split in the crowd.

Sorry all those teams u mentioned haven't played GWS who have literally no support bar pies who got 72K.
Do you know how hard it is to sell out a ground on your own (we did it when others do then they can boast about it). Ifs and maybes doesn't mean it can or will happen. I dont agree other Vic teams could do it, pies a very big club only got 72K to their first final in 5 years at the G.

In the 70's and 80's teams in Melbourne played each other so this comparison is not a true indication V playing a team like GWS.
Mate we are not talking 70K+ this i agree many vic teams in right circumstances could achieve but we are talking 95K+ (well over 90k.

Anyway happy to leave it there but in answer to the OP yes blues are bigger than the Dees
 

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gopies1981

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hahahahaha everything u say means what? we have been crap for 35 years and most of ur records have been in that time, dont say it hasnt
Now we have gone to another stratosphere with having some success. Their lies your answer pies, bombers have had success in last 35 years and reaped the rewards now we have some and u dont like to compere apples with apples as before you comparing apples to oranges or rotten tomatoes.
You guys have both won flags and played in a gazillion GF's so u really haven't been shit, ess of late has but not like Richmond for most of 35 years.
Trying to justify Roy Morgan sorry wont even go there its embarrassing you are embarrassing to even bring up roy morgan plus social media numbers but neglecting to mention the biggest and truest form of support a PAID UP MEMBERSHIP.

Having GWS and GC will bring down crowd averages, so Richmond have the 6th biggest of all time. Seriously dont be so one eyed, if for arguments sake no gws and no gc we would play a higher drawing team thus pushing us up to say top 3 or 4 in biggest home and away crowds. Also you can bang on about 1 million attendances etc again u reached nearly all these whilst we were shit dont try and deny it. Why haven't u got a bigger membership than us? why did we out number u in the prelim 60-40, the prelim is the purest day for footy goers and we dwarfed you, why> because we are bigger. If you were bigger you wouldve had more. Same as when we played the blues in 2013 EF, 95K and about 65K were tigers.

We played GWS 95K in 2017 and u played them 2018 and got what 72K? thats the size of a supporter base. The fixture can suit over 22 rounds and lets not beat around the bush pies have always had a cushy fixture. We dont play ess twice this year so that will hurt our attendances.

In order of biggest.

Richmond
Collingwood
Essendon
Carlton
Hawks
Melbourne
Geelong
Saints (could switch cats and saints around, when both up and about much of a muchness)
Bulldogs
North
Their is no evidence that’s shows Richmond are bigger then Collingwood and Essendon for that matter. We are actually discussing total supporter base numbers not members!!

All stats show (and yes I have plenty of them) Collingwood are the biggest Victorian club in Australia. This includes fan surveys, social media and attendance’ where Collingwood is 7 million more then the blues and 9.2 million more then Richmond. Also Geelong is bigger then Melbourne. Geelong have a town of 200,000 behind them for a start.

This is the order as it stands on which Victorian clubs are the most popular clubs in Victoria.

1. Collingwood
2. Essendon
3. Richmond
4. Carlton
5. Hawthorn
6. Geelong
7. Melbourne
8. St.kilda
9. Western Bulldogs
10. North Melbourne

In Australia on every fan survey and social media forum its is always the same 1. Collingwood 2. Essendon

Their is no evidence that shows that Richmond have a bigger supporter base then Collingwood and Essendon. Even last year Brandon Gale stated that Richmond were only the 5th or 6th biggest club behind Collingwood, Essendon, West Coast and Adelaide
 

AstuteTiger

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Their is no evidence that shows that Richmond have a bigger supporter base then Collingwood and Essendon.
100,000 members says different that is real evidence not surveys :p. We also have topped the home and away attendance in 3 of last 4 years. Including against a top 3 pies in 2018. U failed to reply to this as most of pies records have come when Richmond have been crap, that u cant deny.

Look u can jam surveys and social media numbers where the sun doesn't shine. Its hard to compare a successful pies to tigers over last 35+ years but now we have won a flag, its a level playing field which we are ahead PERIOD.

Lmao Geelong is not bigger than Melbourne in support. Did you go the dees V melb game? One sided in crowd support. And please dont say it was dees first final in god knows how long. Simple fact dees have more support. We are not talking a whole town we are talking core footy support.
Anyway im leaving it there you have always been a hater of Richmond. You obviously copy and paste the same shit you produce with every post engagement. Btw U have played in a grand final last year and have high hopes for this year, so lets see if u get over 85K in membership let alone 90K

Ess fans do believe they can over take you guys with some success. They are hot on your heels.

The order as it stands>

Richmond
Collingwood
Essendon
Carlton
Hawks
Melbourne
Geelong
Saints
Bulldogs
North
 
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In 2013 i had Carlton supporters saying their was like 70K tigers the noise was deafening when we came out but 65K tigers to 30K blues sounds about right.
Carlton fans didnt buy up their whole allocation so tigers fans bought into it hence the crazy split in the crowd.

Sorry all those teams u mentioned haven't played GWS who have literally no support bar pies who got 72K.
Do you know how hard it is to sell out a ground on your own (we did it when others do then they can boast about it). Ifs and maybes doesn't mean it can or will happen. I dont agree other Vic teams could do it, pies a very big club only got 72K to their first final in 5 years at the G.

In the 70's and 80's teams in Melbourne played each other so this comparison is not a true indication V playing a team like GWS.
Mate we are not talking 70K+ this i agree many vic teams in right circumstances could achieve but we are talking 95K+ (well over 90k.

Anyway happy to leave it there but in answer to the OP yes blues are bigger than the Dees
The examples I gave you were when teams had at least 80 to 90K of the crowd.
Yep Blues have a bigger support base than Demons, but also the Tigers and bit bigger than the Bombers.
 

Proper Gander

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I feel the actual OP question has been lost here.

Of course Carlton have a bigger supporter base tham Melbourne. Who in the world is seriously stating otherwise?

I guess now the thread returns to some bizarre Pies v Tiges shitfight
 
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Their is no evidence that’s shows Richmond are bigger then Collingwood and Essendon for that matter. We are actually discussing total supporter base numbers not members!!

All stats show (and yes I have plenty of them) Collingwood are the biggest Victorian club in Australia. This includes fan surveys, social media and attendance’ where Collingwood is 7 million more then the blues and 9.2 million more then Richmond. Also Geelong is bigger then Melbourne. Geelong have a town of 200,000 behind them for a start.

This is the order as it stands on which Victorian clubs are the most popular clubs in Victoria.

1. Collingwood
2. Essendon
3. Richmond
4. Carlton
5. Hawthorn
6. Geelong
7. Melbourne
8. St.kilda
9. Western Bulldogs
10. North Melbourne

In Australia on every fan survey and social media forum its is always the same 1. Collingwood 2. Essendon

Their is no evidence that shows that Richmond have a bigger supporter base then Collingwood and Essendon. Even last year Brandon Gale stated that Richmond were only the 5th or 6th biggest club behind Collingwood, Essendon, West Coast and Adelaide
This is fairly accurate imo, however I'd say Gellong and possibly Hawks have now surpassed carlton in terms of support.
 

00Stinger

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hahahahaha everything u say means what? we have been crap for 35 years and most of ur records have been in that time, dont say it hasnt
Now we have gone to another stratosphere with having some success. Their lies your answer pies, bombers have had success in last 35 years and reaped the rewards now we have some and u dont like to compere apples with apples as before you comparing apples to oranges or rotten tomatoes.
You guys have both won flags and played in a gazillion GF's so u really haven't been shit, ess of late has but not like Richmond for most of 35 years.
Trying to justify Roy Morgan sorry wont even go there its embarrassing you are embarrassing to even bring up roy morgan plus social media numbers but neglecting to mention the biggest and truest form of support a PAID UP MEMBERSHIP.

Having GWS and GC will bring down crowd averages, so Richmond have the 6th biggest of all time. Seriously dont be so one eyed, if for arguments sake no gws and no gc we would play a higher drawing team thus pushing us up to say top 3 or 4 in biggest home and away crowds. Also you can bang on about 1 million attendances etc again u reached nearly all these whilst we were shit dont try and deny it. Why haven't u got a bigger membership than us? why did we out number u in the prelim 60-40, the prelim is the purest day for footy goers and we dwarfed you, why> because we are bigger. If you were bigger you wouldve had more. Same as when we played the blues in 2013 EF, 95K and about 65K were tigers.

We played GWS 95K in 2017 and u played them 2018 and got what 72K? thats the size of a supporter base. The fixture can suit over 22 rounds and lets not beat around the bush pies have always had a cushy fixture. We dont play ess twice this year so that will hurt our attendances.

In order of biggest.

Richmond
Collingwood
Essendon
Carlton
Hawks
Melbourne
Geelong
Saints (could switch cats and saints around, when both up and about much of a muchness)
Bulldogs
North
swap Geelong and Melbourne imo

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heard an interview with Cain Liddle (current Carlton CEO and former head of Richmond membership dept) and he actually said Carlton has something like a 20/40% (i dont remember which but it was a significant number)larger supporter base than Richmond. Which is obviously pretty amazing considering Richmond's membership numbers but his point was that it wasn't so long ago that Richmond did't have such great membership numbers and there's no reason the same couldn't happen at Carlton
Liddle is right! Carlton are a massive club second biggest following to Collingwood have been for generations. Essendon very close to Carlton since the 90's. It's that our marketing and membership dept prior to Liddle coming over from Tigers were stuck in the 70's. Now we are on our way to 70K members and that's on the back of 3 wooden spoons in 4 years. With some on field success Carlton has the potential to be a powerhouse in all categories attendance,membership, and money all relevant in the modern era.
 

gopies1981

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100,000 members says different that is real evidence not surveys :p. We also have topped the home and away attendance in 3 of last 4 years. Including against a top 3 pies in 2018. U failed to reply to this as most of pies records have come when Richmond have been crap, that u cant deny.

Look u can jam surveys and social media numbers where the sun doesn't shine. Its hard to compare a successful pies to tigers over last 35+ years but now we have won a flag, its a level playing field which we are ahead PERIOD.

Lmao Geelong is not bigger than Melbourne in support. Did you go the dees V melb game? One sided in crowd support. And please dont say it was dees first final in god knows how long. Simple fact dees have more support. We are not talking a whole town we are talking core footy support.
Anyway im leaving it there you have always been a hater of Richmond. You obviously copy and paste the same shit you produce with every post engagement. Btw U have played in a grand final last year and have high hopes for this year, so lets see if u get over 85K in membership let alone 90K

Ess fans do believe they can over take you guys with some success. They are hot on your heels.

The order as it stands>

Richmond
Collingwood
Essendon
Carlton
Hawks
Melbourne
Geelong
Saints
Bulldogs
North
Members and total supporter base are completely different. Hawthorn last year had more members then Collingwood and Essendon but no one thinks that hawthorn have more supporters then Collingwood and Essendon!!

I will stat again there is no statistical prof that Richmond are the biggest Victorian club.

Collingwood and Essendon are always and have always been ranked no.1 and no.2 for that last 30 years.

You say that for Richmond being crap for 35 years it’s hard to compare Richmond and Collingwood well do I guess your saying Richmond are bandwagoners? Well you ain’t going to get an argument from me.

Richmond are 9.2 million behind Collingwood in attendance’s during the home and away season since 1921! Richmond have had a huge advantage of playing ALL home games at the mcg since 1965. Prior to 1965 Victoria Park and Punt Road capacity was very similar. Remember Collingwood started playing all its home games at the mcg in 2000 and yet Collingwood are 9.2 million more then Richmond.

This is total supporterbase numbers not members and Collingwood are no.1. Essendon no.2, Richmond have always been ranked no.3 and Carlton no.4 in Victoria.

How me evidence that shows Richmond have more supporters (not members) then Collingwood or Essendon???

You will not find any!!
 

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gopies1981

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This is fairly accurate imo, however I'd say Gellong and possibly Hawks have now surpassed carlton in terms of support.
Carlton are massive they are just dormant at the moment. They have a huge national following. Hawthorn might have over taken then tho as on social media and Roy Morgan poll they are actually bigger then Carlton and Richmond
 

gopies1981

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The examples I gave you were when teams had at least 80 to 90K of the crowd.
Yep Blues have a bigger support base than Demons, but also the Tigers and bit bigger than the Bombers.
Actually their is no evidence then Carlton have a bigger supporter base then Essendon. Essendon are bigger then Carlton in every fan survey and on social media.

I have the blues ranked 4th. On social media hawthorn are ranked only behind Collingwood and Essendon and are in front on Richmond and Carlton

Fans surveys their ain’t a lot of difference between Richmond, Carlton and hawthorn. No doubt in Victoria Richmond and bigger but interstate hawthorn and Carlton are bigger the Richmond

Collingwood and Essendon are clearly no.1 and no.2 in Victoria for support
 
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Actually their is no evidence then Carlton have a bigger supporter base then Essendon. Essendon are bigger then Carlton in every fan survey and on social media.

I have the blues ranked 4th On social media hawthorn are ranked only behind Collingwood and Essendon and are in front on Richmond and Carlton

Fans surveys their ain’t a lot of difference between Richmond, Carlton and hawthorn. No doubt in Victoria Richmond and bigger but interstate hawthorn and Carlton are bigger the Richmond

Collingwood and Essendon are clearly no.1 and no.2 in Victoria for support
Don't base your findings on social media and surveys its flawed and allot of people agree with me on that.

I base it on attendances, tv audiences, streaming what the clubs, afl experts, and the afl say and even overall record of wins vs losses.

Based on that I agree with you Collingwood are clear 1 Carlton 2 just above Essendon 3 (very similar numbers) the Tigers 4 above Hawks.

I also agree with you Carlton are dormant but wait until we are competitive again in the modern era and in the top 4. We will be consistantly reminded about Coll Carl rivalry, biggest drawcard most famous clubs biggest followings etc..
 

gopies1981

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Do

Don't base your findings on social media and surveys its flawed and allot of people agree with me on that.

I base it on attendances, tv audiences, streaming what the clubs, afl experts, and the afl say and even overall record of wins vs losses.

Based on that I agree with you Collingwood are clear 1 Carlton 2 just above Essendon 3 (very similar numbers) the Tigers 4 above Hawks.

I also agree with you Carlton are dormant but wait until we are competitive again in the modern era and in the top 4. We will be consistantly reminded about Coll Carl rivalry, biggest drawcard most famous clubs biggest followings etc..
How is social media flawed. That’s how clubs go by in terms of trying to turns followes into members. In terms of social media the biggest clubs in order are;

1. Collingwood
2. Essendon
3. Hawthorn
4. Richmond
5. West Coast
6. Adelaide
7. Carlton
8. Sydney
9. Geelong
10. Fremantle
12. Port Adelaide
13. Western Bulldogs
14. St.Kilda
15. North Melbourne
16. Melbourne
17. GWS
18. Gold Coast
 
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How is social media flawed. That’s how clubs go by in terms of trying to turns followes into members. In terms of social media the biggest clubs in order are;

1. Collingwood
2. Essendon
3. Hawthorn
4. Richmond
5. West Coast
6. Adelaide
7. Carlton
8. Sydney
9. Geelong
10. Fremantle
12. Port Adelaide
13. Western Bulldogs
14. St.Kilda
15. North Melbourne
16. Melbourne
17. GWS
18. Gold Coast
That's right, need to take every indicator into account and factored accordingly. This includes attendance, membership, premierships, revenue, merchandise sales, tv ratings, facebook, twitter, supercoach, dreamteam, kids trends, club AAA ratings, etc.

Obviously some indicators are more heavily weighted, but you can't just discount certain indicators because it doesn't suit your club.
 
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That's right, need to take every indicator into account and factored accordingly. This includes attendance, membership, premierships, revenue, merchandise sales, tv ratings, facebook, twitter, supercoach, dreamteam, kids trends, club AAA ratings, etc.

Obviously some indicators are more heavily weighted, but you can't just discount certain indicators because it doesn't suit your club.
Attendance is the best indicator so are premierships tv ratings and afl data. Facebook??? Most people are not on Facebook I do not have Twitter, roy morgan cmon. They are not only a true indication of my club but allot of clubs eagles, crows,tigers, demons. based on what I know supporter base australia wide
Magpies
Blues
Bombers(very similar to blues)
Tigers
But these clubs are no where near eagles crows. I will leave it at that.
 

LoungeLizard

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Carlton easily for me.

Richmond the biggest Vic club, the proof is in the pudding, when they travel interstate the support is so large they negate HGA, they are nearly unbeatable interstate.
 

jezzajay

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There’s more Carlton supporters 100%
There just the bigger club, we were probably one of the more popular clubs in our glory years, but 60 years over being hopeless didn’t really give us the chance to recruit the newer generations.

Hopefully this changes over the next decade or two, success is a hell of a thing for member/supporter numbers
I would be feeling pretty confident that your success on and off the field should build in the near future. For your sake I would hope that it lasts at least a generation or two so that it sets a foundation for generations ahead.
 

jezzajay

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100,000+ members says Richmond is the biggest club in Victoria, when you get to 100k come and talk to us, until then jerk off over your Ray Morgan polls and social media platforms. Real fans put their hands in the pockets and pay up, casual fans say " oh collingwood i suppose put them "
A membership base does not align with a supporter base. It aligns more with momentum on field. The amount of dogs and cats you have signed up will not determine overall supporter base.
 

jezzajay

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This talk of Richmond having s larger supporter base than anyone else is laughable!! Where were they prior to 4-5 years ago?
If they were a sleeping giant...then watch out when the blues get some onfield momentum...let alone Collingwood or Essendon.
 

Cudi_420

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Carlton has a larger over support base.

These days, purchase intent and engagement is more important.

Melbourne has the highest rate of supporter-to-attendance ratio in the league. This is mainly due to it having a highly concentrated fan base based in Melbourne.

Carlton will have a larger overall support base in Victoria and across Australia. No doubt about that.

But Melbourne support base is highly understated and often based purely on membership figures. Given how shit we've been for so long, we still have thereabouts membership numbers than the Saints Bulldogs and North, all of whom have seen flags, Grand Finals and long periods of finals appearances. Our attendance is almost always greater.

This suggests that:

1. Melbourne's core base -- people that buy memberships and attend matches -- is higher than other seemingly "small" clubs, who have similar numbers during their finals years.

2. There is room to grow, with a dormant base that could put it on the edge of the "big 4" in Victoria

I don't think we'll ever be on the level of a Collingwood or Essendon or Richmond or even Carlton.

But we're like a Tottenham. Not HUGE, not small, but "there", with the potential to be much bigger.

I think a better comparison would be with Hawthorn.
 

Blue1980

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Carlton has a larger over support base.

These days, purchase intent and engagement is more important.

Melbourne has the highest rate of supporter-to-attendance ratio in the league. This is mainly due to it having a highly concentrated fan base based in Melbourne.

Carlton will have a larger overall support base in Victoria and across Australia. No doubt about that.

But Melbourne support base is highly understated and often based purely on membership figures. Given how shit we've been for so long, we still have thereabouts membership numbers than the Saints Bulldogs and North, all of whom have seen flags, Grand Finals and long periods of finals appearances. Our attendance is almost always greater.

This suggests that:

1. Melbourne's core base -- people that buy memberships and attend matches -- is higher than other seemingly "small" clubs, who have similar numbers during their finals years.

2. There is room to grow, with a dormant base that could put it on the edge of the "big 4" in Victoria

I don't think we'll ever be on the level of a Collingwood or Essendon or Richmond or even Carlton.

But we're like a Tottenham. Not HUGE, not small, but "there", with the potential to be much bigger.
I’m thinking Melbourne have a Hawthorn level of support, all things being equal (if Melbourne are a perennial top side like the hawks have been for an extended period).

People usually under and over estimate supporter bases dependent on how they are performing on field.
 
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