Roast Carlton in no man's land

[Bunk Moreland]

Genuinely not even trying to be a campaigner here, but it's pretty funny that in a professional football league you could even let that happen.

Is there any other sport in the world that requires a specific bloke to come in and re-teach basic skills? I can get one player, but an entire squad?

You'd love to play AFL footy these days. If you can run you'll stay on a list long enough to make a good living. There's hardly a 'cutthroat' element whatsoever.

AFL footballers don’t receive proper, professional coaching until very late in their development.

Coaching of juniors in ARF is incredibly poor. Typically it’s just somebody’s dad.

Those who reach NAB League or state league might get professional coaching. Any that’s only a year or two before they’re drafted.

Very late professional development and very early drafting. It’s that combination that does it.

 

[joy division]

Now is the time to start trading assets for draft picks. Saad, Curnow, Cripps, Mackay?

 

[Cyclops]

Like another big 4 club across town, they are run by special and contending interest groups and individuals. Poisons everything.

Added to that the manic media wagging the dog of public opinion, the world is falling apart, calamity mindset.

Bang on.

Is Voss a terrible coach? Not sure, but they have had some coaching gods down there who fared no better. Carlton coaches get no support and most of the blame.

Are the players s**t? No way, there's been a cavalcade of talent through Carlton for decades. Nevertheless, Carlton is a place where talent goes to stagnate.

Is it the gameplan? There's more than one game plan that works, you have to execute it.

Who hired SOS? Who keeps sacking coaches on a hair trigger? Who is dabbling in trading and openly fighting each other in public?

Bless John Elliot for poisoning Carlton. His ghost festers im the board room at Princes Park like a radioactive whale carcass. "Poisons everything" should be their club motto.

 

[Fadge]

Here's what happens from here in....

They're just not good enough to beat Essendon next week, so that's another loss taking them to 4.5/8.5 with 10 games to go.

They haven't got too bad a draw for the remainder of the season, so they win 7 of their remaining 10 games once the shackles are released, including one or two good wins against finals teams, and are 'one of the best teams outside the finals' come the end of the year, and they are a team that 'none of the finals sides would want to play'.

The media and the Carlton faithful spend all off season talking up their chances for 2024 before we get to June next year and Carlton again find themselves in 'no man's land'...

 

[Yoda_]

Here's what happens from here in....

They're just not good enough to beat Essendon next week, so that's another loss taking them to 4.5/8.5 with 10 games to go.

They haven't got too bad a draw for the remainder of the season, so they win 7 of their remaining 10 games once the shackles are released, including one or two good wins against finals teams, and are 'one of the best teams outside the finals' come the end of the year, and they are a team that 'none of the finals sides would want to play'.

The media and the Carlton faithful spend all off season talking up their chances for 2024 before we get to June next year and Carlton again find themselves in 'no man's land'...

Carlton WILL beat Essendon next week, McKay will kick 5

nothing surer

 

[Crankyhawk]

Carlton WILL beat Essendon next week, McKay will kick 5

nothing surer

I see your reverse mozz. (I’d do the same in your position tbf)

 

[Yoda_]

I see your reverse mozz. (I’d do the same in your position tbf)

Essendon to beat a team they should beat is a curse that's taken a hold of us for years.

Carlton should bounce back, we struggle to contain KPF;s (Hawk kicked 6, Dixon 4 etc) so the McKay/Curnow duo will cause us problems no doubt.

 

[demondavey]

That's all great and I'm glad you are happy with all that. Fact is you just don't win the one that counts, Premierships.

So it's great being a Pies fan with only 2 flags in 60+ years ? Glad you are happy with that

The football landscape is grossly different from the basically amateur VFL in the eighties and before. It’s the same as me stating Melbourne are one of the most successful clubs because we were huge up until 1964.

The fact is that Carlton are a club run on hubris and arrogance, thinking the days of old mean something whilst refusing to crawl out of their own arse and get their house in order. This all started with the gross Judd trade, the notion of throwing lots of money at one hero to solve all your problems.

You sacked Ratten to hire Malthouse, you continue to appoint board members and presidents whom show zero leadership and show contempt for your modern fan base.

 

[MisterMarcus]

I've said this elsewhere, but I believe at least part of their 'cultural problems' is due to the tanking era.

When you tank, you set a mentality that losing is somehow acceptable or desirable. You see vision of their own supporters clapping and cheering them off when they lose a game and fall further down the ladder.....that must inflict some "it's okay to fail around here at Carlton" attitude among the players, coaches, and clubs in general.

Maybe that's stuck around Carlton, however subtly and unconsciously? We saw with Melbourne; they went through the same tanking regime and turned into an utterly uncompetitive rabble for years afterwards, and only got past all that with lots of AFL intervention and help.

 

[demondavey]

I've said this elsewhere, but I believe at least part of their 'cultural problems' is due to the tanking era.

When you tank, you set a mentality that losing is somehow acceptable or desirable. You see vision of their own supporters clapping and cheering them off when they lose a game and fall further down the ladder.....that must inflict some "it's okay to fail around here at Carlton" attitude among the players, coaches, and clubs in general.

Maybe that's stuck around Carlton, however subtly and unconsciously? We saw with Melbourne; they went through the same tanking regime and turned into an utterly uncompetitive rabble for years afterwards, and only got past all that with lots of AFL intervention and help.

Whilst we did get intervention, we also used that to turn the place around and win a flag. Not many Melbourne fans want to be reminded of those days. They need a total overhaul of their board. The president is an absolute liability.

 

[Yoda_]

I've said this elsewhere, but I believe at least part of their 'cultural problems' is due to the tanking era.

When you tank, you set a mentality that losing is somehow acceptable or desirable. You see vision of their own supporters clapping and cheering them off when they lose a game and fall further down the ladder.....that must inflict some "it's okay to fail around here at Carlton" attitude among the players, coaches, and clubs in general.

Maybe that's stuck around Carlton, however subtly and unconsciously? We saw with Melbourne; they went through the same tanking regime and turned into an utterly uncompetitive rabble for years afterwards, and only got past all that with lots of AFL intervention and help.

great call this. Im on here saying that the best thing Melbourne did (apart from Roos) was get guys like Daniel Cross and Jordan Lewis. Change the mindset, the mentality that this club can do it. Luke Hodge and Grant Birchall did this for Brisbane

Carlton chased the wrong blokes to change the culture. Essendon to a lesser extent did this as well.

Getting the right leaders in will go a long way to changing that 'tanking' mindset you speak of

 

[MisterMarcus]

Whilst we did get intervention, we also used that to turn the place around and win a flag. Not many Melbourne fans want to be reminded of those days. They need a total overhaul of their board. The president is an absolute liability.

In hindsight, I guess being an absolute rabble was good for you in one way, in that there were no illusions or places to hide. You needed to face up to the terrible reality.

Carlton always being thereabouts has probably hurt them in the long run - it's allowed them to constantly keep believing they're "just a game out of the finals" and "the team that's primed for next season". Much easier to stick your head in the sand year after year.

 

[demondavey]

Zero on field leadership, who has played in a final?

 

[Shade]

I'm not writing them off. The talent is there, Voss isn't completely devoid of talent as a coach. If there's one thing I've taken away from the start of this season is just how powerful a force confidence and belief is on a struggling team, especially one with high end talent like Carlton has.

What talent is actually there though? the top 10 or so players they have are quality no doubt but the drop off after that is enormous they dont get enough out of them.

Perhaps as time goes on we are starting to realise they have got their list build entirely wrong.

 

[Joao]

Voss has had teams with Fevola and Brown (2010) and McKay and Curnow and still can’t work out how to score.

How that guy got another job after the crazy Vossy years is beyond me

The worst part is if/when he gets sacked, its going to make it harder for other clubs to hire another experienced coach because of his example.

Essendon to beat a team they should beat is a curse that's taken a hold of us for years.

Carlton should bounce back, we struggle to contain KPF;s (Hawk kicked 6, Dixon 4 etc) so the McKay/Curnow duo will cause us problems no doubt.

I'd play two key defenders on Curnow and run the kicking for goal roulette on McKay.

 

[CasuallyDressed]

They're in no wins land

 

[Soapy V]

SOS has stuffed Carlton.

6 or 7 who played tonight would not get get games for West Coast or North.

The list needs a reset.

The list needs a refresh. No doubt. Is it all SOS? I think development and coaching have a lot to do with it

 

[Mitchell Madness]

I've said this elsewhere, but I believe at least part of their 'cultural problems' is due to the tanking era.

When you tank, you set a mentality that losing is somehow acceptable or desirable. You see vision of their own supporters clapping and cheering them off when they lose a game and fall further down the ladder.....that must inflict some "it's okay to fail around here at Carlton" attitude among the players, coaches, and clubs in general.

Maybe that's stuck around Carlton, however subtly and unconsciously? We saw with Melbourne; they went through the same tanking regime and turned into an utterly uncompetitive rabble for years afterwards, and only got past all that with lots of AFL intervention and help.

Their issues are because their players have the smoke blown up their arse.
The board is full of people with big heads and egos. None to stand up and say "not good enough"

Carlton set up is very similar to hawthorn in 2004, but I don't think they have a Jason Dunstall to deliver home truths to the board and the playing group

 

[Fadge]

Perhaps as time goes on we are starting to realise they have got their list build entirely wrong.

Shhhh, don't you dare say that or you'll be accused of trolling...

 

[WillHayward]

That's all great and I'm glad you are happy with all that. Fact is you just don't win the one that counts, Premierships.

So it's great being a Pies fan with only 2 flags in 60+ years ? Glad you are happy with that

Yep U were good in the old parochial little VFL 50! years ago

Big whoops.

 

[bzparkes]

Their issues are because their players have the smoke blown up their arse.
The board is full of people with big heads and egos. None to stand up and say "not good enough"

Carlton set up is very similar to hawthorn in 2004, but I don't think they have a Jason Dunstall to deliver home truths to the board and the playing group

Because they're Carlton, * the rest.


Which is exactly why they'll continue to be a waste of a Friday night slot for the next decade because they refuse to address their administrative culture. The AFL has gone all in on them in regards to prime time TV because the AFL is like a gambling addict who thinks 'just one more spin' and Carlton will be flying.

I'd rather be in WCE's position of acknowledging the pit they've dug themselves into and doing everything they can to get out of it, bar cycling through numerous coaches.

 

[deck]

so they win 7 of their remaining 10 games

11 games to go. Everyone plays 23 games this year because of gather round.

If you say they can't beat the top 4 so cancel out the Collingwood, Melbourne and Port Adelaide games. A loss next week against Essendon and the season is pretty much done. 11.5 wins won't get you in this year with the extra game. Looking more likely it will be 13 plus percentage for a finals spot.

There best win is against Geelong who sit in 10th spot. Everyone else is bottom 5 so I they still have a few games outside that top 4 they won't start favorites in to come.

 

[Soapy V]

Now is the time to start trading assets for draft picks. Saad, Curnow, Cripps, Mackay?

Sadly, we have bugger all picks this year. We will need to trade some players and get picks

TDK & McGovern should be two. If any of Cripps, Saad, Williams etc wanted a trade I would do it for the right price

 

[citizen-erased]

Carlton WILL beat Essendon next week, McKay will kick 5

nothing surer

3.2 but reckon they win.
We don't have the backline to stop the marks.
Only hope is stringer has one of those 2021 games and 2MP is back and snags 7.
That said, they're poor ball use will be exactly what we're after and that backline ir ripe for the picking.
Midfield is just going to be that little inexperienced for mine, even with shiel and merrett in there

 

[trentjac]

Sadly, we have bugger all picks this year. We will need to trade some players and get picks

TDK & McGovern should be two. If any of Cripps, Saad, Williams etc wanted a trade I would do it for the right price

Interested to hear your thoughts on ‘the right price’.