Carlton Issued With Pls Explain Over Cheer Squad Chant

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HTPunter

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 27, 2014
10,767
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North Melbourne
Because they represent Carlton officially as a club and they probably wouldn't like to be represented in that way.
It's a deliberate attempt to belittle and intimidate, making it unnecessarily personal when an umpire is simply performing their job. It's just wrong and improper for a club-sanctioned group calling umpires w***ers in that manner. God knows we may have no umpires left in 10-20 years time, who would want to enter a profession like that? Seen enough abuse at local footy matches toward junior umpires to know the toll it can have later down the line.

Do you think the abuse towards umpires has gotten worse over the past 10-20 years? How long have you followed football? Because I can tell you that the abuse used to be much more intense and that it obviously hasn't had the effects you claim.
 
Do you think the abuse towards umpires has gotten worse over the past 10-20 years? How long have you followed football? Because I can tell you that the abuse used to be much more intense and that it obviously hasn't had the effects you claim.
Ever umpired?
 

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Kingpin

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 15, 2004
13,075
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Do you think the abuse towards umpires has gotten worse over the past 10-20 years? How long have you followed football? Because I can tell you that the abuse used to be much more intense and that it obviously hasn't had the effects you claim.
I've been going to football for nearly 45 years and it was much, much worse years ago.
More of it, more vitriolic and way more personal.
I actually remember going to a TFL game at Sandy Bay circa 1980-81 where an extremely drunk elderly man stood on top of the race and pissed all over the umpires after the match, then threw up on the goal umpires straggling behind them.
Numerous TFL games in the early 90s where supporters used to try to rip the cages down off the umpires race at North Hobart to get at them.
There's still abuse of umpires now, problem is it's probably more audible because of the meagre crowds that attend matches but I don't think it's a vitriolic as it was even 25 years ago.
 

dean33

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 10, 2007
12,331
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melb
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Richmond
Good. The disrespect umpires get is ridiculous and flows-on to all sports at grassroots level. Pretty sure there was a story a couple of weeks back of an adult abusing a junior umpire during/after a match. These are the people we hope will be umpiring our elite-level sport in 10-20+ years time. I hope the same people constantly complaining about “umpiring standards” are happy to keep quiet about it in 20 years time when there are no umpires left. Seriously, why would someone want to get into/continue umpiring when they know they’re in for a career of getting scolded every week?

And no, I’m no angel and have had my share of frustration towards umpiring decisions (both as a player and supporter) but have certainly made an effort to change my attitude in the last few years.
I reckon if umpires were professional it might persuade a few more to choose it as a career path and might actually lift the standard. That would have more impact than issuing a cheer squad with a please explain.
 

DamoESP

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 2, 2008
9,511
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Perth
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Carlton
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Apparently the issue is more around the use of an instrument during play (drum, which they are allowed to use, just not during play) rather than the actual words of the chant itself.
 

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Jack5

Cancelled
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Sep 15, 2017
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Umps get it wrong and in some cases hopelessly so but no point directing anger at them, rules are hard to umpire to, they are not fulltime, rules change year to year and interpretations week to week as they are instructed and they cant change much.

The culprits here are Hocking, Gil, and that muppet they pay too much attention to, Whateley.


Replace umpire chants with:
Hocking is a w***er
Gil is a w***er
Whateley is a w***er

If they don't get the message, switch the tv off, switch off the radio, don't turn up. I know some people will object on the basis its hurts their club but this is short term pain for long term gain til these clowns are out of the game.
 

Smartest Brain

Premiership Player
Jun 11, 2017
3,104
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AFL Club
GWS
Do you think the abuse towards umpires has gotten worse over the past 10-20 years? How long have you followed football? Because I can tell you that the abuse used to be much more intense and that it obviously hasn't had the effects you claim.

To be fair while umpiring abuse has decreased the ability to get offended has increased much more.
 

Catters 070911

Club Legend
Oct 13, 2017
2,270
2,101
AFL Club
Geelong
Simple, don't abuse umpires who are just performing their job to that degree and you wont get fined.
Must run in the Carlton blood like how Daisy got fined for calling the boundary umpire a cheat. Really? How low do you have to be to say that to a bloke who just throws the ball back into play and has control over 1% of decisions in games.


Umpire apologist right here.

You seem to accept mediocrity if you don't think umpiring needs to improve.
 

Catters 070911

Club Legend
Oct 13, 2017
2,270
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AFL Club
Geelong
Good. The disrespect umpires get is ridiculous and flows-on to all sports at grassroots level. Pretty sure there was a story a couple of weeks back of an adult abusing a junior umpire during/after a match. These are the people we hope will be umpiring our elite-level sport in 10-20+ years time. I hope the same people constantly complaining about “umpiring standards” are happy to keep quiet about it in 20 years time when there are no umpires left. Seriously, why would someone want to get into/continue umpiring when they know they’re in for a career of getting scolded every week?

And no, I’m no angel and have had my share of frustration towards umpiring decisions (both as a player and supporter) but have certainly made an effort to change my attitude in the last few years.


Firstly, the abuse of umpires at junior levels has LITTLE to do to what players do to umpires in the AFL.

At a lot of junior footy games, it is the parents who are abusing the umpires. There's your problem right there.

A child's main role models are not sportspeople but it is their parents, or it should be. The parents are the ones who instill values and teach by example.

If a parent is abusing a junior umpire, their child will too, even if umpire abuse in the AFL was stamped out. Junior leagues blame the AFL instead of fixing their own problems.

Secondly, you say that there will be no umpires left. Well, politicians get abused all the time, police get abused, so do teachers. I worked in retail for many years, and had some customers who were abusive. It happens in every job. But does that stop people entering those jobs. No!

No one puts a gun to an umpire's head to be an umpire. They CHOOSE to do it, involving everything that goes along with it.

AFL umpires are paid, so it isn't like they are a junior umpire.

You should be calling for no-one to abuse anyone in any profession then, since it might mean no-one does that job in 20 years time. I hope you aren't someone who abuses anyone doing their job, then.

Also, there is a difference between abuse and fair criticism. While no-one deserves abuse in their job, they need to still be accountable for how they perform their job. We hold politicians to account in elections. We hold others to account by whether we remain a customer of that establishment.

Umpires also need fair criticism, in order for them to get better at doing their job. But when the AFL and umpires' department will say that every umpiring decision was right every weekend, then I question whether an umpire is ever held to account.

If you think umpires are above criticism, then it is fair that you should think every other job is too. I hope you never complain if your meal isn't cooked properly or if the tradesman who fixes your fridge doesn't do anything, and it is still broken.

There will always be umpires in the AFL because no matter how bad the job, there will always be people to do it if there is a buck in it.

I also hope that when an umpiring decision screws over your team of a victory one day, you stay silent and don't complain about it, lest you be a hypocrite.
 

Catters 070911

Club Legend
Oct 13, 2017
2,270
2,101
AFL Club
Geelong
If only you had some perspective...
Umpiring is the toughest job in the footy industry, probably in any sport. Would love to see you give it a crack.
Blame the AFL and the shocking rules they force umpires to apply in-game. The worst part about all this is the umpires are doing exactly as they are directed by the AFL, but when they cop crap the AFL is nowhere to be seen to back them up.

On a side note, no, the umpires didn't screw you over on ANZAC Day. The umpires were the only reason you were within a goal to begin with.
And no they did not screw you over against Sydney. You were beaten by an undermanned and frankly inferior team.


If I had a dollar for every time someone said "Umpiring is hard".

Guess what? A lot of jobs are hard. Being in the medical field is hard. Being a firefighter or a police person is hard. These people are saving lives or putting their lives on the line. AFL umpires aren't.

There are many jobs where people work hard, and where there is a level of difficulty to it, otherwise anyone could do it. But does that then mean that we should hold no-one to account for how they do their job, just because it is hard?

I would say AFL coaching is a hard job. They have 0 job security, get little credit for a win and all the blame for a loss by supporters. They are the first one to be sacked when a team does bad (not the recruiter who recruited duds, or the development manager who couldn't get the players to AFL level, nor the president or the board who hired the coach to begin with). Coaches cop scrutiny and are criticised all the time, and you don't see anyone flying the flag for them.

Or what about players' themselves? How many have had mental breakdowns in the last few years? Tom Boyd quit footy because jealous people told him he was undeserving of money that was offered to him, and which anyone in his position would take. Players cop it all the time, on Twitter, over the fence, or even on shows like "On The Couch" where a player's mistake is highlighted because they stood two millimetres off their opponent too much, and the ball comes down and the opposition kick a goal, and it is talked about as if that one mistake decided the game, when even the winning team might have made 50 mistakes during the day, but that doesn't forward the narrative, does it?

Umpires are like the "police" of sport, who enforce the rules. But police get lots of criticism by the media, the public and even by higher-ups. I hope you defend actual police like you do those who enforce rules in sport.

I suppose you think no official in any sport has EVER made a mistake. Maybe the real reason that it is hard to get AFL umpires is because most people are fallible, and make mistakes, and there are few perfect, flawless people around to be umpires.

Maybe if you care so much about umpires, you should spend your money on them, buying them some tissues and sending them 40 cents, to tell someone who cares.
 

Catters 070911

Club Legend
Oct 13, 2017
2,270
2,101
AFL Club
Geelong
You clearly don't know what strawmannning an argument means.
I didn't claim you were arguing a point you weren't arguing, I presented a hypothetical, creating an alternative perspective to your original reply.


I think you're mistaken (which makes sense if you haven't read what I've been saying at all), I'm talking about umpire abuse, such as organising cheer squad chants and calling boundary umpires cheats. This is completely separate from disagreeing with umpire decisions ("That was holding the ****ing ball ump!), this is mostly harmless unless it takes the next step and materialises in to something like I mentioned just previously.


No, the fact that you are SO defensive of umpires sounds more like you think they should be above criticism, and not accountable, when most other jobs have a level of accountability to them.
 

Catters 070911

Club Legend
Oct 13, 2017
2,270
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AFL Club
Geelong
:$:$:$

Seems hardly called for, my comment was barely controversial and that fact that you cannot get over it shows how out-of-touch you are with your bias getting in the way of your ability to perceive reality and produce a rational reply to my original statement that abuse isn't okay.


You defend umpires because you go for Collingwood, one of the most looked-after teams when it comes to umpiring decisions.
 

Catters 070911

Club Legend
Oct 13, 2017
2,270
2,101
AFL Club
Geelong
I was the "g" one day and bay 13 were singing "Richard Hadlees mums a mole do dah do dah Richard hadlees mums a mole doh do dah day" hadleee was fielding at fine leg just in front of the bay 13 flogs. Imagine if you did that these days.jesus you would be in the excreta big time


Was it Richard Hadlee the NZ cricketer or the AFL player who played for Brisbane Bears and Carlton?
 
Sep 20, 2009
9,614
27,900
NSW
AFL Club
St Kilda
The AFL are desperate to control what the crowd does during games. It wants to sanitize the game to the point where it looks exactly the way they want.
Since they aren't at the stage where they can police the crowd, they're going to start with cheer squads. Carlton were the unlucky team that are first. Other teams will follow.

The AFL wants to sell the game to media companies, the game isn't about the fans anymore. The fans are a part of the package the AFL will be working to change.
 

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