Game Day Carlton Reserves Game Day Discussion Rnds 2 - 19

[therubbernub]

SPS might not be "lazy" but let's just say I've seen some harder runners.

Is he injured? Is he lacking in confidence?

If Freo offered us a decent pick tomorrow, I'd take it. Would you?

IMO the demoting of players that arent as aggressive as say stocker, cotrell ie SPS Setterfield, is more about sending a message than a sign that their papers are stamped.
Teague is trying to get some aggression and hardness into the team, to match the slick ball movement that he has developed. Our weakness in this regards, has been concentrated in the midfield, between the arcs. Putting Doc on the wing is part of this process IMO- he can have more influence on the wing than HB . He is ably replaced by Zac W , who desperately needed to regroup following his luke warm intro into the world of being a full time Mid. I have no doubt Zac will move back to that midfield role eventually, but he needs to find his feet again. newman has helped out as well, stabilising our defence.
With kemp and Marchbank and Parks to eventually be added to the mix , we might see Doc being moved to the wing permanently. I like the move on a lot of levels

 

[Jimmae]

If he was drafted at 17, he'd have been

The club can shoulder some of the blame, but a player has to also be accountable for their own development.

I know SPS is a pretty withdrawn guy, and maybe he hasn’t gone out of his way to seek specific feedback or provide suggestions or some idea of how he fits into the team and what he’s planning on doing to get himself to the next stage of development. He’s essentially been in limbo, not getting better but not getting worse, since his second season.

Reckon the style of footballer he was drafted as just isn’t really conducive to AFL, and SPS has only had a few minor glimpses at replicating his WAFL form, always in favourable circumstances where he’s just happened to hit on some sweet spot. Playing on pure intuition is idealised, but there are a hell of a lot of components you need to cross to be successful and SPS lacks in a lot of key areas. Not competitive enough, not brave enough with his disposal for where we want to play him, and low output for his experience.

I think the club did the right thing by trying to develop him as a rebounding defender to solve some of these blind spots, but we just saw similar variations of pre-existing issues, and now the club has added Saad and reinstated Williams in defence he’s even further down the pecking order.

The club will probably end up letting him go, but I’m more inclined to think he’s going to end up going the way of Jimmy Toumpas or at best becoming a role player who’ll be phased at some point like James Aish.

If he was drafted at 17, he'd be a star winger right now.

LOB is ‘nearly’ there. So close. His running is fantastic. His kicking ‘usually’ fantastic.

The occasional ‘really bad’ moments are killing him. Two today stood out. One: the body collapse in the back pocket that spilled for a goal....just another bad look for his physicality. Two: that stupid handball.

But outside that I feel he IS physically harder at the ball. He IS keeping his feet much better. He is consistently finding the footy when I think that’s hard the way they make wings play these days (hold them fat to one side of the ground and away from play).

He has some real positive attirubutes. If he can neutralise those negatives a bit more we have a quality afl wingman on our hands.

I think the extra kilos have hurt his overall mobility though. He used to be able to zip around everywhere, and now he's a little more conservative with his patterns. Initial acceleration looks a tiny bit better?

 

[bluesmell]

Campbell’s old man has plenty, I reckon he’ll be just fine

Thug & sons

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Brayshaw was regarded as a ‘neat’ player and came late on most peoples’ boards. Supposedly the majority of recruiters had dow at ONE. No one had Dow lower than 5. No one anywhere. Zero. Many preferred Fogarty and Richards to LOB. No great losses anywhere really. It was a very very weak draft.

It was known to be a weak draft, which is my only gripe with the Gibbs trade. Extra picks in the stronger draft the year before but one less year of Gibbs (and it was a great year by him) or extra picks in the upcoming weaker draft. Think we decided wrong, alas, hindsight and all that.

 

[Foucault1989]

No one's giving him a pass, I think he just needs to submit to some serious physiotherapy.

You're assuming an afl player isn't getting physio?.
You come out with some weird stuff.

 

[WFGodot]

Not sure. Sounds more like #SPSdistrust

I think SPS is wasted in the back half. He is played out of position. I suspect that he may not have the engine to play as a mid. If the rumours have wings and he heads west to Freo he may be the clincher with other fruit in getting Cerra. Sad though because the guy has serious talent that we just dont get to see consistently... for whatever reason!

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

Hard to say who actually played in the middle, seeing as we hardly touched it in that part of the ground.

 

[Jeremias]

Yep it was time to spend the cap...no one wss willing to come and we are still not a destination club. I am more concerned Williams body will not hold up for another 5 years

Williams
Saad
Fogarty
Martin
Papley
Wines (if you believe the talk)

That's a lot of players who have wanted to come to the club over the past two off-seasons despite the club not being a destination club and "no one was willing to come"

Damn those pesky facts, hey.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Williams
Saad
Fogarty
Martin
Papley
Wines (if you believe the talk)

That's a lot of players who have wanted to come to the club over the past two off-seasons despite the club not being a destination club and "no one was willing to come"

Damn those pesky facts, hey.

Not A grade midfielders for 800k. It is not ideal when you have to spend 800k on a half back flanker(williams)

 

[El Topo]

Not A grade midfielders for 800k. It is not ideal when you have to spend 800k on a half back flanker(williams)

It helps when it's a case of 'spend it or lose it'

 

[Blue since 72]

Natural footballer. Everything he did was just smart, intelligent footy. Definitely looks like a mid and wanted to take the game on in every opportunity. It will take time to get back into it but it won’t be long before he is playing AFL.
Hopefully we don’t rush him but also allow him to play his natural game. I do worry about our coaches and development. SPS was a shadow of himself today and even looked disinterested at times. Bad feeling we have destroyed SPS.

I don't think the club has destroyed him at all.

While I don't believe he is best used in the back line he has had opportunity at HF and in the middle but done himself no favours over the journey. He's had 1 standout game in his career (which really should have been a catalyst for many more similar games) and continues to play what seems to be a very laconic game style.

He has good awareness, is very clean below his knees and has great kicking skills but he's not overly fast, is average defensively and his kicks lack any penetration (he really needs to run and carry at every opportunity to get any value out of his kicks). I just don't think he has the urgency in his game for AFL and this has always been the case.

Ask yourself, if he was traded out would it make any difference to our on field fortunes?

 

[Jimmae]

Kemp highlights:

VFL R6 | Brodie Kemp highlights

Watch the best of Brodie Kemp in his first Carlton VFL game after a lengthy injury layoff.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

Not A grade midfielders for 800k. It is not ideal when you have to spend 800k on a half back flanker(williams)

To be fair, we planned to play him out of position in the midfield.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Kemp highlights:

VFL R6 | Brodie Kemp highlights

Watch the best of Brodie Kemp in his first Carlton VFL game after a lengthy injury layoff.

www.carltonfc.com.au

Thought I was watching Diesel. Great stuff

 

[Sector 7G]

Kemp highlights:

VFL R6 | Brodie Kemp highlights

Watch the best of Brodie Kemp in his first Carlton VFL game after a lengthy injury layoff.

www.carltonfc.com.au

Slimmer that I expected. Probably to reduce load on the knee.

Clean hands
Great agility makes you think he could play midfield where as for all the talk at draft time you can't see in Fogarty or Francis
Kicking looks good but he didn't go long often mainly safe options

Exceeded my expectations for the day. Good first hitout for a kid who hasn't played in 2 years

 

[Sammoll]

Sad times at Preston with the Bullants getting smacked by 160 on the weekend and looking unlikely to win a game all year. Hoping for their sake they can turn it around as I developed a bit of a soft spot for them due to the years we spent aligned with them BUT to me this really reenforces to me how glad I am we have full control of our own VFL team and player development now. I think the Bullants alignment always held us back a bit

 

[SurreyBlue]

I don't think the club has destroyed him at all.

While I don't believe he is best used in the back line he has had opportunity at HF and in the middle but done himself no favours over the journey. He's had 1 standout game in his career (which really should have been a catalyst for many more similar games) and continues to play what seems to be a very laconic game style.

He has good awareness, is very clean below his knees and has great kicking skills but he's not overly fast, is average defensively and his kicks lack any penetration (he really needs to run and carry at every opportunity to get any value out of his kicks). I just don't think he has the urgency in his game for AFL and this has always been the case.

Ask yourself, if he was traded out would it make any difference to our on field fortunes?

I could not disagree more with all of this but I respect your thoughts and won't dislike.
The last month treatment of SpS was terrible. The coaches played him back for most of his career and then promoted him further up field, when they obviously felt he was ready, but then didn't give him the best opportunity to rise. Playing him as sub and not in his best position outside of maybe one or two quarter is quite embarrassing. I guess they had a plan and needed to execute it and that is my biggest gripe, as there are players in the team that have been worse then SpS and there are players in the team that also didn't deserve to come back so quickly. Coaching moves and thoughts quite obvious!!!

 

[Own The Future]

Slimmer that I expected. Probably to reduce load on the knee.

Clean hands
Great agility makes you think he could play midfield where as for all the talk at draft time you can't see in Fogarty or Francis
Kicking looks good but he didn't go long often mainly safe options

Exceeded my expectations for the day. Good first hitout for a kid who hasn't played in 2 years

I thought the same. Compared to some of the earlier training photos/videos it seems like Kemp has really slimmed down. Maybe with the knee reco he concentrated on upper body work, but now that he can do more cardio work he has slimmed down. I just hope it’s not a conscious decision a la Cripps of last year - reducing the main area of advantage a guy has to try and be a more “rounded” player.

 

[BigBreakfast]

After seeing SPS today, no rush to get him back in the team. He looked lost out there today.

What does that have to do with a need to improve our all out attack game plan?

 

[Sinjin Smith]

A pick in the 20s

Nope, I still believe he will show why he was drafted so high, hopefully this spell in the two's reaps some serious dividends.

 

[skadoosh]

In that short couple of minutes, my day has been made. In the first few clips you can see Kemp already has the side-step in his repertoire along with the 'Cripps/Walsh trademark' of bringing the arms up when being tackled to still allow a handball dish-off. Plays calm and composed, with some very nicely weighted kicks and strong marks while being bodied. Looking forward to his AFL debut.

 

[Sector 7G]

In that short couple of minutes, my day has been made. In the first few clips you can see Kemp already has the side-step in his repertoire along with the 'Cripps/Walsh trademark' of bringing the arms up when being tackled to still allow a handball dish-off. Plays calm and composed, with some very nicely weighted kicks and strong marks while being bodied. Looking forward to his AFL debut.

We will need a 3rd tall in 2 weeks against the WC. Could be a little too soon.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Slimmer that I expected. Probably to reduce load on the knee.

Clean hands
Great agility makes you think he could play midfield where as for all the talk at draft time you can't see in Fogarty or Francis
Kicking looks good but he didn't go long often mainly safe options

Exceeded my expectations for the day. Good first hitout for a kid who hasn't played in 2 years

It's funny how things play out in practice because Francis tested really well for agility, particularly for a big bloke. As for Fogarty; that was mainly supposition, including from me.

 

[Blue since 72]

I could not disagree more with all of this but I respect your thoughts and won't dislike.
The last month treatment of SpS was terrible. The coaches played him back for most of his career and then promoted him further up field, when they obviously felt he was ready, but then didn't give him the best opportunity to rise. Playing him as sub and not in his best position outside of maybe one or two quarter is quite embarrassing. I guess they had a plan and needed to execute it and that is my biggest gripe, as there are players in the team that have been worse then SpS and there are players in the team that also didn't deserve to come back so quickly. Coaching moves and thoughts quite obvious!!!

No worries mate. I guess where I'm coming from is that he's been with us for quite awhile now and he's only played back under Teague with 2 and a half years under Bolton.

I don't know if they wanted to teach him defence or two way running or they wanted to use his awareness and kicking accuracy in the back half and while I won't say it's been a failure I don't believe the results have been overly positive.

Just thought he would have shown a lot more by now regardless of where he's been used.

Anyhoo agree to have different opinions on this one.

 

[Jimmae]

I thought the same. Compared to some of the earlier training photos/videos it seems like Kemp has really slimmed down. Maybe with the knee reco he concentrated on upper body work, but now that he can do more cardio work he has slimmed down. I just hope it’s not a conscious decision a la Cripps of last year - reducing the main area of advantage a guy has to try and be a more “rounded” player.

I'd suggest he just started running and lost some body fat. Speed is a huge part of Kemp's game, so I've got no problem with him being lean, especially given we've got Cripps, Setterfield and him within our midfield mix.

He can put on more muscle mass if he slows down a bit later in this career, at which point Cripps will be gone and we'll have drafted a support cast around him.

It's funny how things play out in practice because Francis tested really well for agility, particularly for a big bloke. As for Fogarty; that was mainly supposition, including from me.

Fogarty was seeing stoppage looks as a junior and looking very promising. I still think he turn that one around, but his preparation needs to go up a notch.