Hot Topic CARLTON SUPPORTERS ONLY - Carlton fires Captain Carlton

[Gethelred]

Carlton caught up in fresh storm over club mascot

A statement has been issued and the person at the centre of the incident has been sacked.

7news.com.au

This thread is for the discussion of the sacking of a club mascot after refusing to participate in a bar mitzvah which was allegedly sending money back to the IDF.

By taking this position and labelling the act racist, the club has taken a position on the Israel-Palestine conflict.

This thread concerns a discussion of the following:

• whether it is acceptable for the club to fire someone for taking a political stance.
• whether it is a good idea for the club to have taken a public position on this issue.

This thread is not a thread in which you should partake in expressing your political beliefs concerning the conflict, nor is it somewhere in which forum rules do not apply.

Should you seek to participate in conversation related to the war, you can do so here:

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack IV - Probable Case of Genocide

Continued from Part III https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack-iii.1381570/ Original Post, October 7, 2023: Israel declares state of war In response to the attacks, which appear to have caught the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) by surprise, Israel has...

www.bigfooty.com

There's also a thread on the SRP for a more robust discussion than can be permitted here:

Moved Thread - Blues mascot 'Captain Carlton' sacked after walking out of Bar Mitzvah and comments about Zionists.

Blues off to a flyer for the off season :D But surely one can criticise the actions of the IDF without being 'anti semitic' ‘Not doing this for f---ing Zios’: Captain Carlton mascot storms out of Bar Mitzvah celebration A man working as a mascot for the Carlton Football Club has stunned...

www.bigfooty.com

If you wish to participate in this thread, do so knowing that this will not be allowed to escalate beyond a point.

Thanks all!

 

[perthblue]

We live in a capitalist society. Learn to accept it. It is far better than all the alternatives.

It is common to give financial gifts at a bar mitzvah. It is also not uncommon for the receiver of the gifts to ask that they be redirected to a cause or charity. Asking that they be directed to assist with recovery of injured soldiers is not the same as donating to weapons manufacturers. It is a fact that conscription is mandatory if you are born in Israel, whether they are pro or anti war does not matter. It does not stop them getting blown up if the truck they are driving in hits a mine on the side of the road. A large majority of Jews in Australia will have friends or family that live in Israel (with a range of political opinions) so is it so unreasonable that they would care for their welfare?

I’m not blaming the club for Captain Carlton rocking up at a barmitzvah and acting surprised there are a bunch of Zionists there. The level of ignorance it takes to think otherwise gives his opinions and feelings such little weight on the matter. It doesn’t justify making a scene and offending the room. Be a professional and do your job or don’t show up in first place.

I am married to a Jewish woman (non-Jewish myself) and when I attend a Jewish celebration or event I am aware that most people there would identify themselves as Zionists, or at least Israel-friendly, but the event/celebration etc has nothing to do with the State of Israel itself, therefore I see no problem attending. I also wouldn't attend an event that is explicitly pro-Israel, or fundraising for the IDF or other Israeli organisations.

I think that distinction is pretty clear, maybe not to others.

 

[Moon]

Should the club have sent him there in the first place?

Fair question..
If you are being sent out to do random jobs ... it is not unreasonable to assume that there will be some jobs that you are unhappy about performing and if you feel strongly enough ... refuse to do them.
Perhaps the employer should have said 'If there is a job that you have a problem with .. call your Supervisor'

 

[Reddington]

I am married to a Jewish woman (non-Jewish myself) and when I attend a Jewish celebration or event I am aware that most people there would identify themselves as Zionists, or at least Israel-friendly, but the event/celebration etc has nothing to do with the State of Israel itself, therefore I see no problem attending. I also wouldn't attend an event that is explicitly pro-Israel, or fundraising for the IDF or other Israeli organisations.

I think that distinction is pretty clear, maybe not to others.

So you’ve probably been to enough of these events to be aware that asking someone to give gifts in lieu to a charity is not the same as having a specific fundraiser event. Especially when you consider it was for injured soldiers who have undergone mandatory conscription. So to turn up at an event like this in a professional capacity and make a scene labelling the attendees a bunch of ****ing zios is maybe not behaviour we should be condoning.

 

[TENACIOUS]

First Charlie Curnow

30

Charlie Curnow

Age

28

Ht

194cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.3

3star

K

9.7

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

5.3

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

10.8

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.8

4star

and Now Captain Carlton.

 

[Blues_1864]

**** rich ****s leaning on the club to employ captain carlton to entertain at a bar mitzvah that was fundraising for people who kill people.

And **** those same rich ****s for laying the blame at the feet of the employee for not employing them for what the actual gig was.

And **** the club for also trying to land it on the employee and his bad language. So ****ing dishonest. Own it.

Word. And agree with those who pointed out that the entire affair is absolute peak Carlton, and there is plenty of blame to share around, to pretty much every (adult) party involved in this mess.

How does the Club manage and vet Captain Carlton engagements? Is it the work experience kid and an Outlook calendar? Because that's what it seems like. Some of the remedies are administrative: one gateway for bookings, and everyone uses it, from Jeremy Leibler to the Coburg under 8's. And have it overseen by somebody with some sort of nose for trouble.

Separately, clearer standards for mascot behaviour (with the important rider that public-domain facts about what actually happened at this function remain scarce). Surely Captain Carlton has to know he will be viewed through the lens of the Club at all times. Rule 1: Never be the story. Rule 2: If you're unavoidably going to be the story, make sure it's a story about your presence, not your conduct. If you need to perform a vanishing act, then for goodness' sake, do it quietly.

But I am more disappointed in the Club than Captain Carlton. On one hand, we have a football department doing its damnedest to drive positive change with respect to standards, skills and behaviour. On the other, we have the Board seemingly behaving exactly the same way it always has. It is incredibly disappointing because cultural change in organisations begins with that of the senior leadership (I used to be profoundly sceptical about this idea, until I finally experienced a executive cohort committed to walking the talk, and I realised the truth of it.)

At the most fundamental level, little will change at Carlton until we end the quid pro quo at Board level. Others in this thread have opined that Board members make significant financial contributions, so they're entitled to fringe benefits like Captain Carlton at a party. But it needs to stop. You're on the Board to serve the Club, within parameters that should be pretty well constrained, given there are about 17 other clubs that seem to manage this better than we do. If you can't do that, then keep your money, join a coterie (if you want to), and we'll take someone else for the Board, even someone with (gasp) less money, who is prepared to put Carlton first.

 

[mickelboy182]

So to turn up at an event like this in a professional capacity and make a scene labelling the attendees a bunch of ****ing zios is maybe not behaviour we should be condoning.

Which again is pure speculation that no one is condoning. ****ing circle work in here.

 

[GoBlues!]

I see fault on both sides.

Calling this a fund raising event is not accurate, I doubt the invitation said please attend our son’s BM and help raise money for injured IDF soldiers - it may have but I doubt it.

If it was a donation for a cause that meant something to the boy and his family and a surprise announcement - then I can see how that could catch someone like CC off guard. The other attendees invited by the family, pro Israel I would assume would not be surprised or pleasantly surprised.

What surprises me is that the family or whoever organised the entertainment for the event would not stop to think - hey not everybody may support our approach in the last 2 years against occupied states, especially non-Jewish people and in fact some may be passionately against it.

Probably an oversight on the organisers part but a big one.

Should CC being so anti IDF military activity have expected something like this at a Jewish event - maybe not, possibly, or maybe he did and wanted to make a statement which he has.

Did CC storm out swearing or gasping inaudibly to himself, I don’t know. If he did he shouldn’t have, but in the moment he may have wanted to make his feelings and views well known.

Lot of ifs, maybe’s, possibly, but to me fault on both sides.

Anyway a shout out to the mods - the UN of bigfooty - doing a great job.

 

[17in25]

I feel for the employee who was put in a morally compromising position.
Perhaps a little more transparency might have avoided this?

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

**** rich ****s leaning on the club to employ captain carlton to entertain at a bar mitzvah that was fundraising for people who kill people.

And **** those same rich ****s for laying the blame at the feet of the employee for not employing them for what the actual gig was.

And **** the club for also trying to land it on the employee and his bad language. So ****ing dishonest. Own it.

And still the club have been conspicuously silent over the matter.

Carlton Board Members First

 

[GoBlues!]

And still the club have been conspicuously silent over the matter.

Carlton Board Members First

We tried BH and sent one of our best operatives - Dirty Leeds - deep undercover he managed to get close and sat next to PK at a recent breakfast function.

Unfortunately his report was quite brief, something about it being an operational decision whatever that means.

However he did say the omelet and coffee were quite good…

I asked Patty privately at the Brekky as to the clubs stance, and it is deemed an "operational decision", there is definitely a lot more than you would have heard on 'the news' or are picking up online. It's being 'contained'.

 

[DirtyLeeds]

We tried BH and sent one of our best operatives - Dirty Leeds - deep undercover he managed to get close and sat next to PK at a recent breakfast function.

Unfortunately his report was quite brief, something about it being an operational decision whatever that means.

However he did say the omelet and coffee were quite good…

Hey GB for a full report you can pm me, I had the coeliac's wrap by the way

 

[Bearded Carpenter]

What about the poor kid that gets shafted from his cash.

 

[Dramoth]

What about the poor kid that gets shafted from his cash.

That's what gets me... what 13 year old kid getting a lot of money wants to donate it. If it was me, I'd be Sorry, I have an appointment at Toy's R Us first thing in the morning.

 

[katmanblue]

So you’ve probably been to enough of these events to be aware that asking someone to give gifts in lieu to a charity is not the same as having a specific fundraiser event. Especially when you consider it was for injured soldiers who have undergone mandatory conscription. So to turn up at an event like this in a professional capacity and make a scene labelling the attendees a bunch of ****ing zios is maybe not behaviour we should be condoning.

Are we certain he made a scene?

 

[Reddington]

Which again is pure speculation that no one is condoning. ****ing circle work in here.

Firstly it’s not speculation. Secondly I would argue that plenty of people here have been most definitely condoning it.

 

[Dramoth]

Firstly it’s not speculation. Secondly I would argue that plenty of people here have been most definitely condoning it.

Like who?

 

[Reddington]

Like who?

Apologies, my comprehension ability sometimes is a bit lacking, but I must have been a bit confused when you earlier posted :

He would have been sacked for "antisemitic" comments. Which is total bullshit because anti-Zionism is not antisemitism.

Channel 7 reported that there were "senior club members" there. Um... I take that as there were Zionists there who bitched to the club about it comflating Zionism with Judaism. The fact he showed up for the Bar Mitzvah shows that he wasn't antisemitic.

I now realise the necessity for this comment and that you were most certainly arguing that calling a bunch of Jews at a Jewish function ****ing zios was no doubt poor form. My apologies once again for misreading the situation.

 

[agro]

You straight out said that if any opposing view was given about what happened that night, it would be deleted. What is that, if not a mod drive by? It was demonstrably wrong, and easy to ascertain with just a cursory look.

Stick to the issue as we expect everybody else to. You're not the first to fire a shot at mods in this thread, and you won't be the last. Don't expect us to sit back and accept it though.

The evidence of what has been allowed to stand in this thread is all that I need to know.

 

[Dramoth]

Apologies, my comprehension ability sometimes is a bit lacking, but I must have been a bit confused when you earlier posted :



I now realise the necessity for this comment and that you were most certainly arguing that calling a bunch of Jews at a Jewish function ****ing zios was no doubt poor form. My apologies once again for misreading the situation.

If he'd called them a bunch of ****ing jews... I would be condemning him to hell and back. But as I've said, all we have is hearsay from non-confirmed sources. But something tells me you don't care about stuff like that because you've already made up your mind about it.

Here's a little story for you to be going on with. Many moons ago, I was a member of a roleplaying group in Box Hill. A couple of new guys showed up. Nice guys, a bit shy at first, but once we got to know them, we all got on fine. Every now and then, we'd meet up for a weekend game day. These guys wanting to fit in, invited us around to their place. We got told their parents were out for the day. Their house was lovely... in Caufield.

Everything was going great, they put on nibbles and drinks. Everyone was having fun... until their parents came home early. Then shit went sort of sideways quickly. We were asked to leave and we never heard from the guys again. Which was a real shame because they were really nice guys. Quiet, polite. Did we give a **** they were Jewish? Nope... we were just a bunch of late teens and early adults having some fun playing tabletop roleplaying games. Maybe it was just because it was the sabbath... but we were in Caufield so that should have been ok.

Now, if you're calling me a racist and a bigot and an antisemite, I'll DM you my address over here in WA, feel free to drop around anytime and we can talk about this face to face over some coffee, bagels and lox. And something for you to remember, a mind is like a parachute, it only works if it is open.

 

[Reddington]

If he'd called them a bunch of ****ing jews... I would be condemning him to hell and back. But as I've said, all we have is hearsay from non-confirmed sources. But something tells me you don't care about stuff like that because you've already made up your mind about it.

Here's a little story for you to be going on with. Many moons ago, I was a member of a roleplaying group in Box Hill. A couple of new guys showed up. Nice guys, a bit shy at first, but once we got to know them, we all got on fine. Every now and then, we'd meet up for a weekend game day. These guys wanting to fit in, invited us around to their place. We got told their parents were out for the day. Their house was lovely... in Caufield.

Everything was going great, they put on nibbles and drinks. Everyone was having fun... until their parents came home early. Then shit went sort of sideways quickly. We were asked to leave and we never heard from the guys again. Which was a real shame because they were really nice guys. Quiet, polite. Did we give a **** they were Jewish? Nope... we were just a bunch of late teens and early adults having some fun playing tabletop roleplaying games. Maybe it was just because it was the sabbath... but we were in Caufield so that should have been ok.

Now, if you're calling me a racist and a bigot and an antisemite, I'll DM you my address over here in WA, feel free to drop around anytime and we can talk about this face to face over some coffee, bagels and lox. And something for you to remember, a mind is like a parachute, it only works if it is open.

Firstly, as I have posted earlier, it is not hearsay.

Secondly, thanks so much for the very illuminating story of your childhood experience in a Caulfield home. It was really touching and I feel I have learned a great deal from it.

Thirdly, that is a much appreciated offer but sadly I don’t drink coffee and these days the lox flares up my IBS

 

[Bearded Carpenter]

If he'd called them a bunch of ****ing jews... I would be condemning him to hell and back. But as I've said, all we have is hearsay from non-confirmed sources. But something tells me you don't care about stuff like that because you've already made up your mind about it.

Here's a little story for you to be going on with. Many moons ago, I was a member of a roleplaying group in Box Hill. A couple of new guys showed up. Nice guys, a bit shy at first, but once we got to know them, we all got on fine. Every now and then, we'd meet up for a weekend game day. These guys wanting to fit in, invited us around to their place. We got told their parents were out for the day. Their house was lovely... in Caufield.

Everything was going great, they put on nibbles and drinks. Everyone was having fun... until their parents came home early. Then shit went sort of sideways quickly. We were asked to leave and we never heard from the guys again. Which was a real shame because they were really nice guys. Quiet, polite. Did we give a **** they were Jewish? Nope... we were just a bunch of late teens and early adults having some fun playing tabletop roleplaying games. Maybe it was just because it was the sabbath... but we were in Caufield so that should have been ok.

Now, if you're calling me a racist and a bigot and an antisemite, I'll DM you my address over here in WA, feel free to drop around anytime and we can talk about this face to face over some coffee, bagels and lox. And something for you to remember, a mind is like a parachute, it only works if it is open.

Appreciate that emotions are all heightened in this thread, but I would have kicked you out also for playing tabletop role playing games

 

[Bletch]

Firstly, as I have posted earlier, it is not hearsay.

Secondly, thanks so much for the very illuminating story of your childhood experience in a Caulfield home. It was really touching and I feel I have learned a great deal from it.

Thirdly, that is a much appreciated offer but sadly I don’t drink coffee and these days the lox flares up my IBS

You were there Reddington?

If so, how did you view the incident as it unfolded?

 

[Dramoth]

Appreciate that emotions are all heightened in this thread, but I would have kicked you out also for playing tabletop role playing games

Why?

 

[gab213]

**** rich ****s leaning on the club to employ captain carlton to entertain at a bar mitzvah that was fundraising for people who kill people.

And **** those same rich ****s for laying the blame at the feet of the employee for not employing them for what the actual gig was.

And **** the club for also trying to land it on the employee and his bad language. So ****ing dishonest. Own it.

I think the Club was wrong in sacking the guy. If anything, they could have hauled him over the coals for using the language he did if what was reported is right. IMO, he has every right to object to performing at an event where fundraising for Israeli soldiers is also happening.

I have some Jewish friends, not one of them considers anti-Zionism to be anti-Semitic; there's an effort to make people think they are the same thing, they aren't. Criticism of Israel isn't criticism of Jews.

 

[goreds]

Which again is pure speculation that no one is condoning. ****ing circle work in here.

And just like our playing list, not one target hit...