Autopsy Carlton v Essendon Practice Match - We won:- 14.11 (95) to 11.8 (74)!

[Arr0w]

We could flip that question.

Flip away, happy to change my stance if evidence supports it

 

[CJMB]

*fairly healthy debate about small/half forward options*

"Yeah but Gov is fat and on too much money!"


Urgh.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Plenty of elite AFL talent on this list

J. J. Liston Trophy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Dont be a smart arse.

 

[Stamos]

He hasn’t really been given the chance to prove that. People love to bring up Cuners 28 touch game against the bombers last year as a reason he should get midfield time. Gibbons had 25 in the same game.

If you look at the Carlton season review for Gibbo last year you’ll actually see the word “consistent” used numerous times. He doesn’t have any real “sexy” attributes, but he’s a strong runner, isn’t slow, can kick on both feet, and can find the goals.

He’s never going to be an all-Australian, but he’s missed 3 games in the 2 years he’s played at the club (all due to injury if I’m not mistaken). If he gets pushed out we’re flying.

None of that points to him being able to do it in the guts, though. His best footy has been as a high half forward, and the things that he has done well in that role don't point to him being an AFL mid.

I'm sure he'll play games this year and be solid, but I would also hazard a guess that the guys who only got a quarter yesterday aren't considered to be in our first choice 22.

 

[CJMB]

Difficult to try and mind read but if we consider the other 2 players who had similar game time I don't think many would have either in their best 22 - is that a clue?

Yeah, but when we look at the other small/half forwards we've got:

Fish: still fairly new to the role
Murphy: just changed positions
Fogarty: new to the club
Cuningham: best is stellar but inconsistent, give him a shot to see what he can do
Martin: more mid in the mid:fwd ratio this year
Gibbons: probably playing pretty much the same role he has for the past 2 years

Maybe they know what they're going to get with Gibbo so they let the others get a bigger run? Or maybe we're waaaaaaay overthinking this and Gibbo is on restricted loads so AR said he can only have 15 mins at the end?

 

[Macca43]

Flip away, happy to change my stance if evidence supports it

Michael Gibbons and David Cuningham AFL Stats Comparison

Michael Gibbons and David Cuningham AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

The stats have only minor variances (13.8 disposals to 11.5 1 scoring short to 1.1 etc) with Gibbons spending more time on the ground, having more turnovers, more clangers lower disposal efficiency and less intercepts. They are dead even on tackles & score involvements.

Cuninghams stats are hurt by his injury in the first quarter of the hawthorn game.

Given their stats are similar, rather than GIbbons being "better" why pick Gibbons over CUningham?

 

[Blue__Balls]

So potential attributes > output?

We ain't rebuilding anymore. Gibbons has Cunningham covered in output and confidence thus far in their careers.

No matter how much some people love looking at statistical output, there's definitely more to it than that.

Cunners offers genuine straight line acceleration, the strength to bust a tackle, and seems to have improved his aerial ability.

Gibbons is a smart runner and hits some very good short passes on both feet.

They may post similar numbers, but the coaches will be looking at how they post them and how that adds to or detracts from the whole.

Based on how they play, and the new manning the mark rule coming into effect, I think Cunners may edge Gibbons out because he improves, and benefits from, our quick play. That's assuming it's even an either/or scenario. They could feasibly both fit.

 

[Stamos]

So potential attributes > output?

We ain't rebuilding anymore. Gibbons has Cunningham covered in output and confidence thus far in their careers.

No, on shown attributes. Cunners best footy has been better.

Sure, Gibbo generally has better career averages with only 1 game difference, but he's also 2 years older.
He's also less contested, and less efficient.

 

[Macca43]

Yeah, but when we look at the other small/half forwards we've got:

Fish: still fairly new to the role
Murphy: just changed positions
Fogarty: new to the club
Cuningham: best is stellar but inconsistent, give him a shot to see what he can do
Martin: more mid in the mid:fwd ratio this year
Gibbons: probably playing pretty much the same role he has for the past 2 years

Maybe they know what they're going to get with Gibbo so they let the others get a bigger run? Or maybe we're waaaaaaay overthinking this and Gibbo is on restricted loads so AR said he can only have 15 mins at the end?

Maybe, maybe theywith the new players they want them to spend time together, who knows, next week will tell more.

 

[Arr0w]

Michael Gibbons and David Cuningham AFL Stats Comparison

Michael Gibbons and David Cuningham AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

The stats have only minor variances (13.8 disposals to 11.5 1 scoring short to 1.1 etc) with Gibbons spending more time on the ground, having more turnovers, more clangers lower disposal efficiency and less intercepts. They are dead even on tackles & score involvements.

Cuninghams stats are hurt by his injury in the first quarter of the hawthorn game.

Given their stats are similar, rather than GIbbons being "better" why pick Gibbons over CUningham?

I already know the stats, even with clangers and turnovers included, Gibbons still has more effective disposals

Gibbons averages more marks, goals, goal assists, i50's, marks I50, 1%ers, clearances, metres gained, rebound 50's and score involvements ( which you incorrectly stated as dead even)

TOG is also an indication durability and fitness/endurance

Why would I change my stance based on those facts?

 

[TerryWallet]

Personally, i have Gibbo, Cunners and Newnes all just outside our 22. As we have seen time and time again on this forum, supporters will have slightly differing opinions to each other.

Blind Freddie can see it is incredibly tight between about 7 mid size/small players for about 3 or 4 spots. Even the coaches have said their teams differentiate. It will be very interesting seeing ongoing selection and performance this year. The inclusion of Saad and Williams has made us a different team who plays differently than the last few years.

 

[Benaly28]

Personally, i have Gibbo, Cunners and Newnes all just outside our 22. As we have seen time and time again on this forum, supporters will have slightly differing opinions to each other.

Blind Freddie can see it is incredibly tight between about 7 mid size/small players for about 3 or 4 spots. Even the coaches have said their teams differentiate. It will be very interesting seeing ongoing selection and performance this year. The inclusion of Saad and Williams has made us a different team who plays differently than the last few years.

Gibbo best 22 IMO.

Cunners and Newnes 22-25.

Nice problem to have.


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[Kernafides]

Murphy, Fish, Gibbons, Martin are all players that could play this role whilst the Durdin, Honey, Owies etc develop. Whilst Eddie is on the list, he will always be preferred and the opportunities will be limited to expose these younger players.. I hope i am wrong and Eddie comes out and kicks 35 goals and has an All Australian year.. I just dont see it happening though, he looked cooked last year and became a liability in 2nd half of games.

Opportunities won't be limited if they press for selection...but don't gift games which is what you're implying for Eddie. Would love him to be overtaken by the way

 

[Metalcrusher]

Gibbo AINT no Nickky G ..... he has proven and fought for his spot. Lets just see what the little terrier brings this year before writing him off as a VFL only type.

It aint the size of the dog in the fight but the fight ....

And Gibbo wont lower his colours to any campaigner.

 

[BluStreak]

Personally, I would have Gibbo in the side before Cuningham. David has a lot of work to do to realise any of his talent. He is sitting in the potential basket and liking it too much. Gibbo does not leave anything behind, he gives his all and will eventually be replaced in the side but not yet and not by Cunners.

 

[BluStreak]

Now to throw more fuel on the fire.
In this match I dont think that Moore embarassed us.

 

[Macca43]

I already know the stats, even with clangers and turnovers included, Gibbons still has more effective disposals

Gibbons averages more marks, goals, goal assists, i50's, marks I50, 1%ers, clearances, metres gained, rebound 50's and score involvements ( which you incorrectly stated as dead even)

TOG is also an indication durability and fitness/endurance

Why would I change my stance based on those facts?

Why would Stamos change his?

And the question wasn't asking you to change your opinion, it was asking you to explain your opinion.

Sorry for the "dead even" on the score involvements, clearly 4.3 to 4.2 is a significant difference (2.4%)

 

[esoteric]

Lots of positives out of yesterday for sure, including the form of Dow, Cripps, Pittonet, and the ability of our defence to attack.
But I’m a bit disconcerted about the ability of our defence to defend.

Bombers forward line of AMT, Guelfi and a couple of rookies sliced through us far too often and easily. We will have to lift that aspect to be ready for what Dusty, Lynch, Riewoldt and the Tigers crumbers might bring in three weeks.

 

[Arr0w]

Now to throw more fuel on the fire.
In this match I dont think that Moore embarassed us.

Given he can't play as a KPD, an area of real need backup wise, I would go MacDonald

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Gibbons is interesting.

Personally I don't rate him as much as others but he has a bit of a cult following and some supporters seem to really appreciate what he brings to the team. So maybe I need a Michael Gibbons 101 course to educate and inspire me.

I find him very inconsistent and can't work out where he fits in the midfield as his small forward career in navy blue has been disappointing. I don't see much X factor or see a specific trait that makes me think only Michael Gibbons can do that and he should be played every week.

He hardly played against Ess so I suspect he has dropped down the depth chart a bit since last year. The inconsistency is my major issue with him. Consistency as a team has been our biggest problem quarter to quarter, game to game, all of last year (happened again yesterday but the win kind of sugar coats it) and I can't understand why players who are consistently inconsistent are considered. Say that as fast as you can 100 times!

Last year, I assumed that Gibbons was doing something worthy that I can't see and that the coaches love. Can someone who rates our #40 give me a quick rundown on why he should be played? Maybe I will come around.

Here ya go.....a 26 minute highlight reel of Gibbo just from last year.....you can draw your own conclusions, but he could easily transition into our engine room.

 

[Macca43]

Lots of positives out of yesterday for sure, including the form of Dow, Cripps, Pittonet, and the ability of our defence to attack.
But I’m a bit disconcerted about the ability of our defence to defend.

Bombers forward line of AWT, Guelfi and a couple of rookies sliced through us far too often and easily. We will have to lift that aspect to be ready for what Dusty, Lynch, Riewoldt and the Tigers crumbers might bring in three weeks.

Not sure either side was playing their best defensive structure.

 

[chunkylover53]

No matter how much some people love looking at statistical output, there's definitely more to it than that.

Cunners offers genuine straight line acceleration, the strength to bust a tackle, and seems to have improved his aerial ability.

Gibbons is a smart runner and hits some very good short passes on both feet.

They may post similar numbers, but the coaches will be looking at how they post them and how that adds to or detracts from the whole.

Based on how they play, and the new manning the mark rule coming into effect, I think Cunners may edge Gibbons out because he improves, and benefits from, our quick play. That's assuming it's even an either/or scenario. They could feasibly both fit.

Cunners has 'offered' the above on about 3-4 occasions throughout his 37 game career. Injuries haven't helped but as it stands Gibbons' output is superior.

No, on shown attributes. Cunners best footy has been better.

Sure, Gibbo generally has better career averages with only 1 game difference, but he's also 2 years older.
He's also less contested, and less efficient.

Has it?

Easy to make that claim when the realistic sample size is 1 game - vs. Essendon this year.

You're punishing Gibbons for his consistency and rewarding Cuners for being exciting to watch once or twice.

 

[TerryWallet]

Give Fogarty a go i say.

There's a good chance he'll be better than both the above, and little chance he'll be worse.....imo.

 

[thylacine60]

Now to throw more fuel on the fire.
In this match I dont think that Moore embarassed us.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Give Fogarty a go i say.

There's a good chance he'll be better than both the above, and little chance he'll be worse.....imo.

Agree.