Carlton v Geelong NAB Cup

Stig O'Hara

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Thread starter #51
Can't really work out the shot clock.

If he takes a mark the clock is ticking.

But,
if it is a free,
and the ball is knocked/kicked away,
which knocks off 10 or so,
is the time still running?

Oooh,
and how does this stand against time on?
 

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MeeSo

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#52
Thanks mojo. I've heard that Hartlett may be a better forward than defender but I haven't seen enough of him to make a judgement for myself. Hopefully both he and Setanta get plenty of gametime up forward so we can work out if Fev is expendable in this strong draft year.

I agree with you completely on Russell. Hard work by the youngsters needs to be rewarded and he's played well at VFL level on small forwards so I can't see why he was left out. Hopefully he's forced his way into the side next week after a good performance in the practise game.
 

mojo31

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#53
MeeSo said:
Thanks mojo. I've heard that Hartlett may be a better forward than defender but I haven't seen enough of him to make a judgement for myself. Hopefully both he and Setanta get plenty of gametime up forward so we can work out if Fev is expendable in this strong draft year.

I agree with you completely on Russell. Hard work by the youngsters needs to be rewarded and he's played well at VFL level on small forwards so I can't see why he was left out. Hopefully he's forced his way into the side next week after a good performance in the practise game.

At this stage Hartlett is a more natural forward than a defender. You see those players who look for there opponent and play really tight. Others just want to go for the ball. Harts is the one who wants to go for hte ball.

Does not mean that in 3 years it will be the same. Like I said in the profiles on Harts and Lance. There best position in my opinion is forward but the team need is back.

That is the problem. What to do when you put players out of position. Do you try and change the nature of a player or accept what they are and work to there strengths and find someone else to fill that role. For me I prefer the latter but can see the other side to it. The problem is that we drafted and traded to get 3 defenders and 1 is injured (Saddo) and Edwards and Bower are not ready yet. So all the options are more natural forwards rather than defenders. Plenty to look forward to but they are not ready yet.

For mine Livo had to play and get FB. Lance HBF if he played down there and Thornton CHB. Then have Hartlett on the bench to relieve one of those 3 when needed as an back up. Thats how I would have lined them up with what was available.
 

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#54
The Old Dark Navy's said:
How much time does a tennis player get between points? And they don't have to run to position and line up shots from different angles ahead of time.

Pretty poor idea when all is said and done.
Yeah true, those idiots at the AFL house are so reactive and do whatever the media pressures them into, I feel bad for the game now.

*The media puts a bad spin on the tribunal = complete overhaul
*Media says priority picks are bad for the game = no more PP
*Media says flooding is ruining the game (coaches said don't worry about it) = new set of rules introuded just to counter it.
*Media says players take too long (every other sport lets players take as long as they want) = New rules introudced to counter that.

Playing far too much into the media's hand, far too much.
 

Funkalicous

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#55
Hu$$ey said:
Yeah true, those idiots at the AFL house are so reactive and do whatever the media pressures them into, I feel bad for the game now.

*The media puts a bad spin on the tribunal = complete overhaul
*Media says priority picks are bad for the game = no more PP
*Media says flooding is ruining the game (coaches said don't worry about it) = new set of rules introuded just to counter it.
*Media says players take too long (every other sport lets players take as long as they want) = New rules introudced to counter that.

Playing far too much into the media's hand, far too much.
And let's face it. The game isn't half as exciting as it used to be. I for one actually enjoyed the physicality and the contested possession of the 80s and 90s. Flooding doesn't worry me either. You have 18 players each on the field. You should be able to use them any way you see fit.
 

cats2rise

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#56
That irish import looks fantastic. Give him another year or two, and by 2008 he will be great.

A few stupid people saying Murphy will be no good, as that goal was a shocking kick
.. im sure you all know that that is a stupid thing to say and ignore it.

Bit worried for the blues as we only moved into 2nd or third gear at the end of the 1st and end of the last for a tiny bit, and you were fielding a full strength team.

But good luck to you in '06!
 

mediumsizered

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#57
cats2rise said:
That irish import looks fantastic. Give him another year or two, and by 2008 he will be great.

A few stupid people saying Murphy will be no good, as that goal was a shocking kick
.. im sure you all know that that is a stupid thing to say and ignore it.

Bit worried for the blues as we only moved into 2nd or third gear at the end of the 1st and end of the last for a tiny bit, and you were fielding a full strength team.

But good luck to you in '06!
You are probably right in calling it a full strength team (Saddington will be in our best 22, though), the problem is it contained 13 players who have played 50 games or less. Throw in McGrath with 59 games, Prendergast 62 and Thornton 69 and you can see the lack of experience in the team. This is why they consistently can not see out games . In 2-3 years time the figures will look a lot healthier and the outcomes will be a lot better.
 

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#58
cats2rise said:
Bit worried for the blues as we only moved into 2nd or third gear at the end of the 1st and end of the last for a tiny bit, and you were fielding a full strength team.
Be honest though. We should've buried you in those 2nd and 3rd quarters. Our goal kicking was just that bad...
 

cats2rise

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#59
Funkalicous said:
Be honest though. We should've buried you in those 2nd and 3rd quarters. Our goal kicking was just that bad...
You should have continued on in the first actually.
Both teams played poor 2nd and third terms, no matter what Carlton threw at Geelong, i think we still would have found that tiny bit more to stay in front.

But yes, Carlton didnt capitalise in the 2nd and 3rd.
 

Muji

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#60
The Old Dark Navy's: 24. Stevens - Decent game, held my breath when he was hopping around on one leg. Will continue to be our midfield leader.
Reminds me when he did hop on one leg, some cats fan next to me goes 'get up you little fag-got' and i laughed and said, his already up mate and he just shut up until geelong scored and then i stopped laughing :(
 
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Moderator #61
cats2rise said:
Bit worried for the blues as we only moved into 2nd or third gear at the end of the 1st and end of the last for a tiny bit, and you were fielding a full strength team.
How do you know that you were only in first gear most of the match? Are you suggesting your players weren't even trying and still beat us? From where I sit, it was a scrappy match and both sides were blowing out some cobwebs, but there was still plenty of effort. Players don't run around half hearted once they are on the field. The game plans and the umpiring turned it into a woeful match but it isn't if the Cats would have annihilated us if they tried while Carlton were doing their best throughout.

We still have Saddington and Teague to add to the defence which was abysmal last night IMO, except for some heart shown by Hartlett.
 

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BlueWorld

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#62
The Old Dark Navy's said:
We still have Saddington and Teague to add to the defence which was abysmal last night IMO, except for some heart shown by Hartlett.
Teague was not considered good enough to make the side.
 

Funkalicous

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#64
I thought both Teague and Sporn would've been desperate to get out there and play. They have a lot of critics to silence this year, and what better place to start than the NAB cup?
 

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#65
Positives
1. S.O'hAilpin - 6 marks, enthusiastic, courage, handles pressure, mobility.
2. A.Hartlett - composure, courage in the air, nice kicking.
3. L.Blackwell - puts heads over ball, great handballer.
4. M.Murphy - composure, tackle on Ling, looked classy and at home.
5. D.McLaren - tap work looks pretty sound, mobile.
6. Houlihan & Lappin - running well and 25 touches each.
7. Fisher - looked great, marked well and moved superbly

Negatives
1. B.Thornton - doesn't look composed enough for FB, needs to play half-back
2. L.Whitnall - lots of possessions but too loose for a CHB at AFL level.
3. A.Walker - kicking is terrible for a no.2 pick (did run well though).
4. H.Scotland - lacked urgency, bit rusty with skills.
5. A.Deluca - looks lost, can't hold marks, Setanta in front now.

Notes
1. French & McLaren should be a decent ruck combo
2. Walker, Lappin and Houlihan running well
3. Have genuine height adn mobility with Hartlett (196cm) and Setanta (199cm)
4. Need to settle FB, maybe Saddington when fit or retry Livo?
5. Would like to see Thornton and Whitnall play across half-back together.
6. Deluca struggled on Sat night in all aspects, maybe try Bryan?
7. Bentick looks huge out there, puts his head over the pill and is running and linking better
8. Fev, Waite and Simpson should all be better for the run
9. We have some little dynamos in Blackwell, Betts and Murphy who are very busy around the ground. Hopefully they learned plenty and improve.
10. Liked the look of Hartlett. Seems confident and composed down back.
 

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#66
mojo31 said:
For mine Livo had to play and get FB. Lance HBF if he played down there and Thornton CHB. Then have Hartlett on the bench to relieve one of those 3 when needed as an back up. Thats how I would have lined them up with what was available.
Before the game I didn't want Livo in the side but in hindsight it was the wrong decision. I think I was expecting 2004 Thornton to take Kingsley and for Whitnall to easily account for Gardiner who I don't rate at all. Going to be a another tough year for our defenders but hopefully a more accountable midfield takes a bit of the pressure off.
 

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#67
mojo31 said:
I might put up a review on the game later today or tomorrow. Not sure if I will at this stage.

Brief thoughts



Walker: Played on Ablett and held him reasonable well. Very hard for him to cover for Lance who zoned off all night. Andrew had to move over and meet the ball carrier/forward with Lance back in the hole. This sometimes resulted in Ablett getting a few cheap possesions based on Andrew trying to cover for others. His speed was there for all to see. He looked great when he ran and he ran straight and with purpose. His kicking was a little bit better but still needs a lot of work. He did not have any targets out there when he had the ball. I taped the game to watch and have seen it now. Live at the game you could see there were no free targets when he had the ball and 3 or 4 tall defenders sitting back waiting for the long kick. So there was not much he could do. I realise it does not look good on tv but at the game there was no free target to hit. We kicked long and players like Scarlett and others sat back waiting for it. Andrew was okay for mine. Not great but is improving. That rushed kick for goal was a let down. However the confidence to run hard down to the goal square and fly for the ball I was really happy with.

I wish he was played on the wing and then given a run on the ball as well. Get given the ball as often as it could be and really take off and break the game open. Not play as a tagger/back flank with to many unaccountable players back there for him to try and cover for. Give him the ball and let him run and kick long. Watch him make plenty of mistakes and also plenty of quality disposals as well. Thats how he develops and how he improves. Playing the role that is natural and where he is best suited. Its not as if we have a lot of other ball carriers in the side.

What are we doing to our young players? Are we trying to kill the flair and natural instincts they have?

I will leave it there I think and might put up something more later.


Good to hear it wasn't just poor decision making and kicking, your right thats what it looked like on TV so thanks for pointing that out cause that was why i was dissapointed with 1AW's game
 

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#68
mojo31 said:
Spot on Meeso. Ellis is a huge pack marker because his highlights in the draft video had him taking one. His kicking is 100 times better because his 2 kicks looked better than Murphies 2 kicks. Its a case of Ellis getting a great edit and Murphy not. Thats all.

Hartlett did not play much (got a corky) . Had an appalling decision played against him when he was on Kingsley in the goal square. If Lockett was playing these days he would kick 250 a season if they umpired that way back then.
He moved well and looked up to speed. I dont think he is a long term answer as a key defender at this stage. I do feel he is better up forward but what he does have is height, good body size for a 19 year old. Is strong, moves with good speed. Can turn and chase and recover. Is not lost when the ball hits the ground. Judges the flight of quickly and does not panic.
Now the problem I see are that his instincts are to go for the ball and mark it. Not punch. Not look to take the path of the forward. But to lead and mark it. Does not make him a poor player just makes him a natural forward and a player who will have to learn the negating skills if he is persisted with as a defender.

The easy answer is to play players where they are comfortable and more naturally inclined. So for me that is Harts as a forward. Walker as a wing.

I was very disappointed with Russell not getting a game. 6 man bench and no room for Jordan was something I did not agree with. Russell takes Ablett if they want and Walker is released to attack. Russell has had a good pre season and is physically ready for the NAB cup. Might not be ready for round 1 in the AFL but will be close. Have to reward good form in the pracrice matches and at training. He is not a stick anymore.
Sends the wrong message in my opinion. Train well, play well in practice matches and get games. Simple as that. Blackwell was rewarded and so should have Russell.

I couldn't believe it when i saw the team sheet and Russell wasn't on there, like you said he has had a good pre season and should have been rewarded, did some good things in the intra club match which is why i thought he was a definite starter. Very Dissapointing Dennis:thumbsdown:
 

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#69
murphster said:
Good to hear it wasn't just poor decision making and kicking, your right thats what it looked like on TV so thanks for pointing that out cause that was why i was dissapointed with 1AW's game
He is told by the coaches to run with the ball in hand. Not look for an option as soon as he gets it. Not kick sideways. Not do a give and go and pump up the stats. But to take the ball and burn the grass and carry and carry as far as you can. So he does that. We dont block for him so he gets caught sometimes. He gets confused and sometimes wants to find an option and not run all the time. So he is caught between his natural instincts sometimes and also coaches instructions.

My opinion is that he should run. But not all the time. Sometimes there is nothing there and no space so holding onto the ball and switching or waiting is fine. He bombed the ball long but Geelong were zoning off with a number of tall defenders and there were no leads on offer.
Waite was not fit and neither was Fev and they did not present as well as they will later in the season. So AW had his work cut out.

I was pretty happy with him to be honest. Did not look great on the tv later on when I saw it but at the game he looked better. Sometimes its hard to pick up things from the tv that you see in the game when your live.

AW is making progress but he has a way to go.
 

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#70
Players get more time to kick it after a field mark than when shooting for goal now, it's a joke, 45 seconds should be the time limit other wise its ludicrous.

Betts has got to much pace for his own good needs to slow down a bit when going for the ball then once he has it take off not the other way around, atleast he is getting to the contests though.

Like Mojo has said 1AW needs to be freed up to use his pace and ball carry especially now that Campo is gone.

We need to open up the forward 50 and give the forwards some space to lead, there just bunching together and giving the defenders the chance to double and triple team the guy going for the mark, Make Space for Each Other should be the Forward lines mantra this year instead of all going to the same contest defenders in tow.:eek:
 

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#71
Here are my thoughts on the game:

Positives

1). Setanta played better than expected. Attacked the ball well and took some grabs that I thought he would not get at the time. Looks likely to get quite a few games this year.

2). Murphy looked extremely composed to me. Positions himself well, prepared to get the hardball and looks for the right option. Will be a gun.

3). Fisher - has impressed me from day 1 and continues to develop as a player. Is a very reliable 1 grab player and will do well this year.

4). French - Strong and solid in the ruck, a very important player.

5). Lappin - what can you say about a guy who has probably been our most consistent player over the past 3 to 4 years. Very good again.

Negatives

1). Midfield defensive pressure. I dont blame Thornton and Lance so much in regards to the performance of the opposition players, I feel as though we dont apply enough defensive pressure to the opposition when we turn the ball over. Maybe it is a lack of pace but all too often other sides midfields seem to have much more space and time than our midfielders do going the other way.

2). Scotland - was expecting more from him and he now needs to exert more influence on a game that he currently does. He needs to have a good year otherwise will find himself on the fringe.

3). Carrazzo - Has a lot of potential but didnt seem to get alot of game time or just didnt get near it when on the field. Hopefully he can step up to become a midfield option this year.

Based on watching Saturday Nights game I am expecting our line-up for the start of 06 to be something like this:

BP Teague Thornton McGrath

HB: Lappin Whitnall Saddington

CN: Houlihan Bentick Walker

HF: Fisher Waite Simpson

FF: O'Hailpin Fevola Betts

R: French, Kouta, Stevens

Int: Murphy, McLaren, DeLuca, Scotland
 

DIG

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#72
mojo31 said:
He is told by the coaches to run with the ball in hand. Not look for an option as soon as he gets it. Not kick sideways. Not do a give and go and pump up the stats. But to take the ball and burn the grass and carry and carry as far as you can. So he does that. We dont block for him so he gets caught sometimes. He gets confused and sometimes wants to find an option and not run all the time. So he is caught between his natural instincts sometimes and also coaches instructions.

My opinion is that he should run. But not all the time. Sometimes there is nothing there and no space so holding onto the ball and switching or waiting is fine. He bombed the ball long but Geelong were zoning off with a number of tall defenders and there were no leads on offer.
Waite was not fit and neither was Fev and they did not present as well as they will later in the season. So AW had his work cut out.

I was pretty happy with him to be honest. Did not look great on the tv later on when I saw it but at the game he looked better. Sometimes its hard to pick up things from the tv that you see in the game when your live.

AW is making progress but he has a way to go.
With Walker we seemed to have used him as a run-with option in the last year or so, so he could "learn" from champions like Mcleod.

I'd like to see him freed up as an attacking wingman too, but is he going to be likely to shake the tags that will inevitably come with that role?
 

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#73
Blue70 said:
BP Teague Thornton McGrath

HB: Lappin Whitnall Saddington

CN: Houlihan Bentick Walker

HF: Fisher Waite Simpson

FF: O'Hailpin Fevola Betts

R: French, Kouta, Stevens

Int: Murphy, McLaren, DeLuca, Scotland
I thought Whitnail would be good at half-back but seeing the long bombs we are dropping into the forward 50 and our lack of structure he may be better played out of the square. We seem to have a lot of good forward so thought maybe push Waite back onto the wing or half back flank. His big body and speed would be useful down there

This is how I would probably line them up after seeing the game plan and problems we had against Geelong

BP Carrazzo/Hartlett (depending on size) Livingston McGrath

HB: Lappin Thornton Saddington

CN: Waite Bentick Walker

HF: Fisher O'Hailpin/Kennedy (later in season) Houlihan

FF: Whitnall Fevola Betts

R: French, Kouta, Stevens

Int: Murphy, Bryan, Scotland, Simpson
 
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