Game Day Carlton v St Kilda Practice Match Gameday Discussion

Nov 13, 2015
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Barker has been at the club for 10 years, if you are crediting him with the improvement over the last 18 months where was it for the other 8.5 years?

You are the master of questioning the facts behind what everyone else is saying while making your own baseless assumptions, how about you try proving to us how anything in the last 18 months is the result of something Barker has done.

I am not suggesting Barker is a good or bad assistant coach. But let's look at the actual facts.

Our list was appalling for years, none of our coaches, senior or otherwise were able to lift the squad, hence why list managment is the most important area of a club.

Just think how good a so called GOAT coach in Clarkson and or his assistants have travelled in recent years without the talent of 5-10 years ago.

How will Barker be viewed if we make finals this year, or if we win flag/s over the next 5 odd years? Again, difficult to determine

What I find really strange, how would anyone here know the effectiveness of our assistants, when they are not in the inner sanctum, nor given that these so called assistants must adhere to the instructions of a senior coach

Considering we ranked 4th in stoppage clearances and 6th in centre clearances, Barker's responsibility, yet we finished outside the 8, who is responsible for other areas, such as disposal efficiency where we ranked last?

We can assess players, by their actions, we can somewhat assess a senior coach by gameplan, tactics and where they want players to ply their craft.

But how do you assess an assistant?
 
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Nov 13, 2015
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It’s not the clearance that concerns me but the quality eg find a player with space with time to exit or dispose cleanly
I’m happy to wait as I thought we improved in the second half when we hand balled a bit more it kept Stkilda guessing and reacting
This in itself created more space and options for quality kicks
I’m still concerned because I still perceive a difference in this area between us and teams in the top 8.
But I will keep my powder dry and reassess after a few games to see how much we have improved

That's not Barkers role though, that is Stanton's
 

FitzroyBlueBagger

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How would you know, generally interested
Interested in why you think he is Arrow, besides a few contested winning statistics that the midfield has produced in his time, our entire systematic production as a whole is horrible, predictable, unimaginative and just poorly coached/implemented...
The limited depth in our midfield quality certainly up until this stage has had its limitations in ways while waiting for the next wave to add the necessary numbers to compete, for me i don’t think we have the right stoppages/midfield people in place, i just don’t see it...
 
What else would I be judging it on? Since I am posting in the Saints V Blues preseason game day thread!????
OK, so on the strength of your observations of a single game, you've decided "our stoppage setups are s**t" ... fine. Thanks for clarifying that you prefer the knee-jerk reactions that are the norm around here, I'll take that into account when reading your future posts.
 
Nov 13, 2015
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Interested in why you think he is Arrow, besides a few contested winning statistics that the midfield has produced in his time, our entire systematic production as a whole is horrible, predictable, unimaginative and just poorly coached/implemented...
The limited depth in our midfield quality certainly up until this stage has had its limitations in ways while waiting for the next wave to add the necessary numbers to compete, for me i don’t think we have the right stoppages/midfield people in place, i just don’t see it...


From above, last year 4th for stoppages, 6th for centre clearances

I think where we need to develop is our spread and footskills. Spread can improve, footskills is difficult, unless Teague adds some tempo layers

Wondering if this Barker focus would be an issue if we won Thursday, a game where not one stoppage included the trio of Cripps, Ed, Setters, the main combatants from last year
 

Skull Face

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I am not suggesting Barker is a good or bad assistant coach. But let's look at the actual facts.

Our list was appalling for years, none of our coaches, senior or otherwise were able to lift the squad, hence why list managment is the most important area of a club.

Just think how good a so called GOAT coach in Clarkson and or his assistants have travelled in recent years without the talent of 5-10 years ago.

How will Barker be viewed if we make finals this year, or if we win flag/s over the next 5 odd years? Again, difficult to determine

What I find really strange, how would anyone here know the effectiveness of our assistants, when they are not in the inner sanctum, nor given that these so called assistants must adhere to the instructions of a senior coach

Considering we ranked 4th in stoppage clearances and 6th in centre clearances, Barker's responsibility, yet we finished outside the 8, who is responsible for other areas, such as disposal efficiency where we ranked last?

We can assess players, by their actions, we can somewhat assess a senior coach by gameplan, tactics and where they want players to play their craft.

But how do you assess an assistant?
By the past performance of the line they are working on vs current performance, at st kilda and hawthorn he took the lines he worked on backwards from where they were previously and I can't remember a year where he has taken a line he has worked on forward while at Carlton. After 15 years at the level he hasn't once done anything that has people going wow that line has improved lets get that guy on board.

We have a large enough sample size to conclude he doesn't get any extra out of a line he works on, If he was worth persisting with another club would have tried to poach him as a senior assistant or a head coach by now.
 
Nov 13, 2015
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By the past performance of the line they are working on vs current performance, at st kilda and hawthorn he took the lines he worked on backwards from where they were previously and I can't remember a year where he has taken a line he has worked on forward while at Carlton. After 15 years at the level he hasn't once done anything that has people going wow that line has improved lets get that guy on board.

We have a large enough sample size to conclude he doesn't get any extra out of a line he works on, If he was worth persisting with another club would have tried to poach him as a senior assistant or a head coach by now.

Sample size of last year, his area of responsibility, 4th in stoppages, 6th in centre clearances.

These are facts, not opinion based

How do you know another side hasn't tried to poach him?
 
Apr 21, 2018
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Interested in why you think he is Arrow, besides a few contested winning statistics that the midfield has produced in his time, our entire systematic production as a whole is horrible, predictable, unimaginative and just poorly coached/implemented...
The limited depth in our midfield quality certainly up until this stage has had its limitations in ways while waiting for the next wave to add the necessary numbers to compete, for me i don’t think we have the right stoppages/midfield people in place, i just don’t see it...

Season hasn’t even started yet fbb but I support your concern . Would love Voss as the midfield but have to support David T . It’s on the players to excel..



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Did you - at any time of writing this - stop to consider how ridiculous it may read that you're judging a person on their character despite knowing absolutely nothing about said person?

The pile on re: Barker has extended well beyond being cringeworthy, it is now simply pathetic.

Did you at any time of writing the above stop to consider how riduculous it may read to suggest that I am judging Barker's 'character'?
Nothing I wrote has anything to do with 'character'.

I said I know his 'type' of organisational behaviour and specifically referred to his own self declared philosophy - as expressed in an article yesterday - and I also made reference to the fact that our midfield play is embarassingly ordinary in knowing how to move the ball - compared to better teams. He has had enough time to prove that he is capable of managing some sort of well drilled system of play - to date he hasn't.

As for 'pile on' another emotive term you throw around and attract support from the same usual minority for doing so - spare me, there are enough posters on here who can actually watch a game and make judgements about the competency or lack of in particular areas of play - that isnt a 'pile on' it is an expression of where we are and who is accountable for the state we find ourselves in.

We have built a pool of high pick players - what we havent done is actually develop these players using a system and game plan that looks anything like the competency and execution as displayed by better teams. This is just patently obvious game after game after game. Our weakness isn't the players - the weakness lies in the coaching and development area - and we have consistently failed to attract assistant coaches and line coaches able to improve our very average skill and execution levels - spoecifically and most importantly - between the arcs.
 
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Out of interest where would you draw the line of responsibility
Second possession 5 meters I’m genuinely interested to hear from you and others on the role as I’m not sure

Again, none of us would know.

But these are the facts

- Rated top 6 for total stoppages

- Improve numbers from the year before, with Cripps having a down year

-Teague is the senior coach, not Barker or any other assistant, who work under his instructions, gameplan, tactics
 
In regards to why we lost. I would like to advance the following:

Screenshot_20210306-185022_AFL.jpeg


We used the ball worse, and generated less opportunities AND

Screenshot_20210306-185030_AFL.jpeg


We lost stoppage clearances badly.

So, I would say, work on stoppages around the ground and on distributing to good users rather than playing for metres.

On SM-A515F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Nov 13, 2015
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