Carlton

[tribey]

Originally posted by Thunderstruck
Doughty will come good.

I don't want to sound like I'm picking on him, but when will this happen exactly?

I'll say it again. Doughty is in his fifth season on our list. Five seasons is more than enough time to fulfill your potential and show that you've got what it takes at AFL level on a consistent basis.

We're not talking about some 17yo we picked up as a first rounder who is now still only 21/22 and has shown glimpses of what he's supposedly capable of, a la James Walker at Freo or Aaron Fiora at Richmond. We're talking about a 24yo utility midfielder who will be 25 and in his sixth season(!) if we choose to keep him on next year, with only one decent season (2002) to show for all the faith and time invested in him so far.

We've heard from his admirers on this site - with Spinny being the most vocal - that he has "wonderful disposal" and that while he isn't a "topliner" he is a "very good midfielder". Well I'm sorry, but stats don't lie.

In his 44 games in the AFL to date since making his debut in R6 2000, Doughty has only cracked a 20-possession game seven times - five of those coming in his promising 2002 season - and he has never cracked a 30-possession game. His return of only 18 career goals is disappointing also, considering that the likes of James Thiessen, Andrew Eccles and Nick Pesch had better goal to game ratios during their AFC careers.

It's time for Dogga to perform or be put down.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Tyson20
Bode = SANFL...

and nothing more and nothing less!

hasnt set the world on fire to warrant a game...lets not forget that Gary isnt the only one to sit in on selection...id b very interested to see if it was just him that thinks he is just an SANFL player...

the team is no better with or without him so IMO he doesnt warrant selection...

How quickly do people forget. Anyone remember what Bode is like at his best and the only way he will be at his best is if he gets game time.

Head coach has the final say at selection table. Graham Cornes has said on infinite number of times that it is ALWAYS the coach who has the final say.

Bode = AFL when he is given a proper opportunity, which so far this year hasn't happened. You just watch him under a coach that will give him a go either at Crows next year or at a new club.

 

[Tyson20]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
How quickly do people forget. Anyone remember what Bode is like at his best and the only way he will be at his best is if he gets game time.

Head coach has the final say at selection table. Graham Cornes has said on infinite number of times that it is ALWAYS the coach who has the final say.

Bode = AFL when he is given a proper opportunity, which so far this year hasn't happened. You just watch him under a coach that will give him a go either at Crows next year or at a new club.

i cant really forget something if ive never seen it...well except at SANFL level anyway...

hmmm Graham Cornes last coached when?? agreed Ayresy would "most" likely have the final say but he would definitely ask for opinion and id love to know what his assistants think...im of the opinion that it is agreed amongst them all that Bodey has parts of his game that he needs to work on and shouldn't need to b told 4 thousand times...how many chances does he want??

he doesnt command a spot in our starting 18 so at best he'd come off the bench and he isnt really an impact player (as he so magnificantly showed against Essendon)...i rate others higher than Bodey because he has been given ample opportunities at TWO AFL clubs and hasnt really shown any improvement IMO!

TWO AFL coaches think he has major flaws in his game (well allegedly anyway) and i think they're better judges than any of us who form our opinions and post them for argument!

 

[Tyson20]

Originally posted by dyertribe
I'll say it again. Doughty is in his fifth season on our list. Five seasons is more than enough time to fulfill your potential and show that you've got what it takes at AFL level on a consistent basis.

yet Bodey's had more opportunities at TWO AFL clubs and in the opinion of some on this board, he deserves more game time...

Bode hasnt fulfilled his potential yet so if Doughty is to go, then wouldn't it make sense for Bode to go as well??

Tough decisions ahead...should b interesting!

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by Tyson20
yet Bodey's had more opportunities at TWO AFL clubs and in the opinion of some on this board, he deserves more game time...

Bode hasnt fulfilled his potential yet so if Doughty is to go, then wouldn't it make sense for Bode to go as well??

You're preaching to the choir.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Tyson20
i cant really forget something if ive never seen it...well except at SANFL level anyway...

hmmm Graham Cornes last coached when?? agreed Ayresy would "most" likely have the final say but he would definitely ask for opinion and id love to know what his assistants think...im of the opinion that it is agreed amongst them all that Bodey has parts of his game that he needs to work on and shouldn't need to b told 4 thousand times...how many chances does he want??

he doesnt command a spot in our starting 18 so at best he'd come off the bench and he isnt really an impact player (as he so magnificantly showed against Essendon)...i rate others higher than Bodey because he has been given ample opportunities at TWO AFL clubs and hasnt really shown any improvement IMO!

TWO AFL coaches think he has major flaws in his game (well allegedly anyway) and i think they're better judges than any of us who form our opinions and post them for argument!

Ever seen 2002 season?????? A player that was leading out clubs in tackles and clearences. Obviously you have a short memory.

Its irrelevant when was the last time Cornes coached. The same principle applies in this day and age. Head coach HAS the final say. After all he is the one that has his head on the chopping block and he is the one that will cop the flak if the side loses. To think otherwise is very naive. In any sport coach will have final say on who plays and who doesn't. To think otherwise is very naive.

People are quick to bag Bode but yet they LOVE Burton. Fact is Port didn't want to lose Bode but he WANTED to leave. Anyone from Port Adeaide FC will tell you this. Its just a cheap excuse that everyone wants to use when they want to bag Bode.

Fact is Bode is better than at least 5 players that played against Hawthorn. I agree he is not a topliner but he would still make my best 22 especially when you consider we don't have a real in and under hunter. Bode is the only true hunter on our list.

 

[Tyson20]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Ever seen 2002 season?????? A player that was leading out clubs in tackles and clearences. Obviously you have a short memory.

Its irrelevant when was the last time Cornes coached. The same principle applies in this day and age. Head coach HAS the final say. After all he is the one that has his head on the chopping block and he is the one that will cop the flak if the side loses. To think otherwise is very naive. In any sport coach will have final say on who plays and who doesn't. To think otherwise is very naive.

People are quick to bag Bode but yet they LOVE Burton. Fact is Port didn't want to lose Bode but he WANTED to leave. Anyone from Port Adeaide FC will tell you this. Its just a cheap excuse that everyone wants to use when they want to bag Bode.

Fact is Bode is better than at least 5 players that played against Hawthorn. I agree he is not a topliner but he would still make my best 22 especially when you consider we don't have a real in and under hunter. Bode is the only true hunter on our list.

and to think that the head coach doesnt take the opinions of his assistants on board is just as "naive" ...i dont know the answer but how many assistants did coaches have when Mr Cornes was about?? Not as many i wldnt hve thought...and how many interviews would assistants hve had back then?? Neil Craig, Peter Curran and Mark Mickan all hve their fair share...so they would all have their say at selection and to think otherwise is dumb quite frankly...what do they do..nothing...?? are they just there to look good?? of course the coach has the final say, but his final say can b swayed one way or the other by his assistants! Yeah he can disregard there thoughts...but sometimes logic actually does out way opinion...

if the HEAD coach is the sole decision maker then why do AFL coaches insist on having 4/5 assistant coaches??

just because it is his head on the chopping block, doesnt make it right...if the head coach goes surely his assistants should too?? thats what i dont understand with most AFL clubs..they keep the assistants, but dump the head coach?? its dumb...too much responsibility is placed on the head coach when it is obvious that he isnt the only one making the decisions...Sheeds praises Mark Harvey all the time for making a great call in the coaches box but we never hear of the ones that Harvey makes which are ****e! More focus needs to be put on the coaching staff as a whole, not just the HEAD coach!

leading tackles and clearances??? for the entire year or for a cple of rounds??? seriously id like to know...and if that was the case then its obvious Ayres has no grudge to bare with Bode as he has shown in the past he will play him, so its obvious in the two years since Ayres (and i agree) doesnt think Bode has done enough to continue his improvement...in the HEAD coaches mind other players have surpassed Bode at selection and id have to support the notion...

and im not one of those people who thinks Burton is a superstar...far from it...

there is no use getting the ball if u cant use it, which is what hurts Bode the most...yeah he may get it, but he burns it(ala Burton)...and Bode's done nothing (on the surface it appears that way anyway) to rectify this weakness...

My opinion is that Reilly, Goodwin, Burton if fit wld hve played against Hawthorn and i dont think Bode has done much to oust anyone...coz the three above wld hve replaced Skipworth, Shirley and Doughty...id pick Schuback before Bode atm due to the chances that hve been given to Bode and the lack of chances given to Schuback!

maybe if u ask Chad down at Port u'd get that answer...fact is cld u see him getting a game at Port at full strength?? coz he doesnt warrant one with Adelaide at full strength...

pure opinion tho of course...

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

IMO, Burton's is more damaging with his possessions than Bode ... & that is saying something...

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Tyson20
and to think that the head coach doesnt take the opinions of his assistants on board is just as "naive" ...i dont know the answer but how many assistants did coaches have when Mr Cornes was about?? Not as many i wldnt hve thought...and how many interviews would assistants hve had back then?? Neil Craig, Peter Curran and Mark Mickan all hve their fair share...so they would all have their say at selection and to think otherwise is dumb quite frankly...what do they do..nothing...?? are they just there to look good?? of course the coach has the final say, but his final say can b swayed one way or the other by his assistants! Yeah he can disregard there thoughts...but sometimes logic actually does out way opinion...

if the HEAD coach is the sole decision maker then why do AFL coaches insist on having 4/5 assistant coaches??

just because it is his head on the chopping block, doesnt make it right...if the head coach goes surely his assistants should too?? thats what i dont understand with most AFL clubs..they keep the assistants, but dump the head coach?? its dumb...too much responsibility is placed on the head coach when it is obvious that he isnt the only one making the decisions...Sheeds praises Mark Harvey all the time for making a great call in the coaches box but we never hear of the ones that Harvey makes which are ****e! More focus needs to be put on the coaching staff as a whole, not just the HEAD coach!

Would you believe it if one of the assistant coaches say it?????? I am 100% Craig said that the final decision rests with Gary. Everyone has their suggestions but its Gary who has the finals say and thats the way it should be. Why do we have all those assistants?????? Each one fo then has a certain area to look after because Gary can't get thought it all by himself. Craig's area is midfield, Jarman's is forward line, Curran's is defence and Mikan is responsible for ruckmen and developing youngsters. Can Gary get around doing all this by himself????? NO. Its a profesional sport and as such needs a lot of study week to week. Everyone on the match committee including Reid puts forward their opinion of who should be in the side but if Ayres doesn't want to play a particular player then he will hav ethe final say even if everyone else wants that player. Thats the way it is and thats the way it should be. To think otherwise is really dumb.

leading tackles and clearances??? for the entire year or for a cple of rounds??? seriously id like to know...and if that was the case then its obvious Ayres has no grudge to bare with Bode as he has shown in the past he will play him, so its obvious in the two years since Ayres (and i agree) doesnt think Bode has done enough to continue his improvement...in the HEAD coaches mind other players have surpassed Bode at selection and id have to support the notion...

For the entire year. He also averaged around 20 possesions. You haven't watched any footy back then have you, because either your memory is short or your knowledge of 2002 is limited.

and im not one of those people who thinks Burton is a superstar...far from it...

there is no use getting the ball if u cant use it, which is what hurts Bode the most...yeah he may get it, but he burns it(ala Burton)...and Bode's done nothing (on the surface it appears that way anyway) to rectify this weakness...

My opinion is that Reilly, Goodwin, Burton if fit wld hve played against Hawthorn and i dont think Bode has done much to oust anyone...coz the three above wld hve replaced Skipworth, Shirley and Doughty...id pick Schuback before Bode atm due to the chances that hve been given to Bode and the lack of chances given to Schuback!

maybe if u ask Chad down at Port u'd get that answer...fact is cld u see him getting a game at Port at full strength?? coz he doesnt warrant one with Adelaide at full strength...

pure opinion tho of course...

Hang on a minute, you are just proving what I am saying. you would have Burton in the side but you wouldn't have Bode even tho both burn the ball equally. Stinks of double standards if you ask me. At least Bode will go in and get fight for the ball unlike Burton who will go kick chasing and skirting around the packs waiting rto pick up a handball run a few meters and kick it to the opposition.

Fact remains that Bode is by far our best true hunter, one of the better tacklers and in and under players and as such he should be in the side especially considerng we are REALLY lacking a real hunter. Burton burns the ball as much as Bode if not more but you and just about everyone else is happy to have him in the side but for the same reasons you wouldn't have Bode in the side. Double standards don't you think??????

People are SO quick to to bag players. you wait until next year when Bode starts firing under a different coach.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
IMO, Burton's is more damaging with his possessions than Bode ... & that is saying something...

You have got to be kidding. They are both crap when disposing by foot but when it comes to clean hands I would take Bode over Burton anyday. Bodey's handballs are better than Burton's.

Thats just my opinion and I don't expect you to agree so we might just have to leave it at that so we avoid another "blood bath"

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
You have got to be kidding. They are both crap when disposing by foot but when it comes to clean hands I would take Bode over Burton anyday. Bodey's handballs are better than Burton's.

Thats just my opinion and I don't expect you to agree so we might just have to leave it at that so we avoid another "blood bath"

Burton's skills aren't as bad as you make out - it's his decsion making ability that leave much t be desired. On a bad day he is shocking ... but this can be corrected. Bode's kicking would make a golfer coming out of a sand-trap proud with the hang-time he can get ... not so great for leading forwards.

 

[macca23]

One thing for sure, Begley sadly won't be up for selection until after the break - round 13.

His groin has been aggrevated by the hard surface of Telstra Dome in the Collingwood game.

Burton is being touted as the only potential change this week.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by macca23
Burton is being touted as the only potential change this week.

If Reilly doesn't come in I will not be happy

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
If Reilly doesn't come in I will not be happy

Stiffy, if I was a selector, then it would be

Reilly for Skipworth

Burton for Massie

 

[Tyson20]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Would you believe it if one of the assistant coaches say it?????? I am 100% Craig said that the final decision rests with Gary. Everyone has their suggestions but its Gary who has the finals say and thats the way it should be. Why do we have all those assistants?????? Each one fo then has a certain area to look after because Gary can't get thought it all by himself. Craig's area is midfield, Jarman's is forward line, Curran's is defence and Mikan is responsible for ruckmen and developing youngsters. Can Gary get around doing all this by himself????? NO. Its a profesional sport and as such needs a lot of study week to week. Everyone on the match committee including Reid puts forward their opinion of who should be in the side but if Ayres doesn't want to play a particular player then he will hav ethe final say even if everyone else wants that player. Thats the way it is and thats the way it should be. To think otherwise is really dumb.

of course the final decision rests with Gary but do u honestly think he is the only one down at the AFC that doesnt want to play Bode?? i wouldnt have thought so...2002 was how long ago...whats he done since? as he improved, gone backwards or stayed the same? definitely hasnt improved in my opinion and that isnt the type of "professional" footballer the AFC needs...fact is he has been over taken by other players who have improved or are improving...or at least shown that if dropped they'll work harder to get back...Bode's done nothing IMO to warrant a regular spot...check out the 2004 stats if ur so hell bent on looking at em...Doughty v Bode...and i recall that Doughty's 2002 season was quite impressive as well...doesnt burn the ball either...has impressed many a commentator with his use...ok he doesnt go in a get it as well as Bode but he gets it none the less and USES it...FACT is Bode hasnt impressed the MATCH committee...simple...

Fact remains that Bode is by far our best true hunter, one of the better tacklers and in and under players and as such he should be in the side especially considerng we are REALLY lacking a real hunter. Burton burns the ball as much as Bode if not more but you and just about everyone else is happy to have him in the side but for the same reasons you wouldn't have Bode in the side. Double standards don't you think??????

hmmm Goodwin isnt a bad hunter of the ball?? Roo?? Tyson Steinglein?? Stiffy Johncock?? Who has the blinkers on here?? being a hunter as u say he is, is obviously the only facet of his game that we like, hardly a reason to keep a player in an AFL side...so no i dont think it is double standards, i just rate Burton higher than Bode as would most AFL expert commentators...and btw Burton use this year has been bad in a couple of games...previous years he has been ok...Bode's been consistently shocking!

People are SO quick to to bag players.

hmmm yes this is true...Martin Mattner ring a bell?? early he was finding his feet..he may well hve found his feet (or is at least giving it a go) and hopefully can demand a regular spot...

you wait until next year when Bode starts firing under a different coach.

At Glenelg?? There are players in front of him IMO which we should concentrate on developing...let him flourish at another club coz he obviously doesnt fit into the AFC's plans!

 

[noddy]

Originally posted by macca23
Stiffy, if I was a selector, then it would be

Reilly for Skipworth

Burton for Massie

Ayresy has been playing the kids lately so it would not surprise if young Watts was given his first game this week.

I would make 3 changes the 2 above plus Watts in for Doughty.

 

[Tyson20]

noddy agree with ur two changes they look fair...altho i still think that Burton should play in the SANFL before bringing him back...

id leave Watts in the SANFL for a little longer...im happy with Doggas' use of the ball and he does get it (albeit receiving 98% of the time but somebody has too)

apologies for the bold in my last post grrr...

 

[Jars458]

Burton for Skipworth will be the only change

Smart for Massie is next cab off the rank.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by Jars458
Burton for Skipworth will be the only change

Smart for Massie is next cab off the rank.

I agree Skippy out should be the only change ... but would we be better off bringing in Reilly, given he has a few SANFL games under his belt, rather than Burton who probably needs a few games with the Eagles to recapture some form?

Reckon Begley will be 1st priority for Massie if he doesn't improve his form ... though if his injury doesn't come up, then Smart could get the nod.

 

[jc67]

Setanta O'hAilpin has been elevated to Carltons senoir list, and is expected to line up against us on saturday.
Shouldent make too much differance to us, he has kicked a bag of goals in the VFL of late.
But don't you just love the "carlos" story

 

[Jerome]

Originally posted by jc67
Setanta O'hAilpin has been elevated to Carltons senoir list, and is expected to line up against us on saturday.
Shouldent make too much differance to us, he has kicked a bag of goals in the VFL of late.
But don't you just love the "carlos" story

Thanks for the info.

Sentanta is 196 cm, 90 kilos. I think they will bring him in stretch our defence.

Channels 7 and 9 stated that Hentschel didnt complete training. He should play but if he does'nt...

Fergus Watts is 197 cm and around 90 kilos. Fergus would be a good match up on the Irishman and I think starting in defence would'nt hurt Mr Watts.

 

[Tyson20]

Originally posted by Jerome
Channels 7 and 9 stated that Hentschel didnt complete training. He should play but if he does'nt...

Fergus Watts is 197 cm and around 90 kilos. Fergus would be a good match up on the Irishman and I think starting in defence would'nt hurt Mr Watts.

i would have thought if fit Biglands would come in for Hentschel...??

should b an interesting night at selection...

 

[BluesPrez]

Setanta is actually 197cm and about 92kg, he's very mobile and kicks further than Fevola. It's a great story, us at Carlton expect him to line up in the FP or at CHF where we have been crying out for an option instead of bloody Whitnall for the last season and a half.

 

[jc67]

Originally posted by jc67
Carlton won't be pushovers by any stretch.
I have actually tipped them against the saints tommorrow. I recon their team has some great synergies (player wise) and they will match up on us very very well.
of all the next 4 "crutial" games this one looks the most dangerous.

Jeez i copped a bagging for this post!
I wish i was wrong about them this week and right about them last.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I hate to say it guys but I told you so. I wish I was wrong but Blues are not as bad a side as many people think.

The roller coaster ride continues