Carlton

[doppleganger]

Here we go again.

We cannot cover Jamison and Waite. We have NO ONE capable of playing those roles, because we have terrible depth in those areas. Collingwood can cover Dawes and Brown, and have done so easily.

We can cover Carrazzo and Hampson though.

Excuse? **** no, we could have won yesterday and should have. I'm disappointed wth the effort.

I dont really think Keefe is adequate coverage for Dawes, he is way too raw and has hardly had any impact in his couple of games.

I keep repeating that, the Pies have more than their fare share of injuries this year....in addition to the 5 that missed against Carlton, Jolly has missed most of the year, B.Johnson has struggled with injury and Maxwell missed the start.

Just because we can keep winning doesn't mean we have been anywhere near full strength yet, as many other supporters seem to suggest.

Carlton are a top4 contender, but they wont trouble Collingwood come finals.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

You're never going to have everyone available.

So why bother asking?

 

[Rioli magic]

So why bother asking?

To find out the answer.

 

[doppleganger]

You're never going to have everyone available, so obviously depth plays a big part in a team's fortunes and why Collingwood's gap is increased on challengers like Carlton as the season progresses. Best 21 (+coaching and fitness) Collingwood already have an edge, best 28 that gap widens. It's a competition between teams best 28 or so players over the season, I just wasn't sure if Brown would be in 21 with all available.

That team is pretty similiar to what I had, although I only put in 21 with Blair instead of Krak (coin toss), Shaw and O'Brien swapped positions and N.Brown the one I had missing out.

Not sure why you keep naming just 21?

But yeah, we have 5 or 6 blokes fighting for our last couple of spots...

Blair, Krak, Macaffer, L.Davis, Goldsack even Beams may struggle to get in if he doesn't show any good form upon return from his broken foot.

N.Brown was/and is a big loss, it has forced MM hands a bit, ie who knows what he may have had in mind for Taz?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

To find out the answer.

The meaning of life is 42.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

N.Brown was/and is a big loss, it has forced MM hands a bit, ie who knows what he may have had in mind for Taz?

Insufficient detail.......Rioli Magic wants a definitive answer.

 

[Rioli magic]

Not sure why you keep naming just 21?

Just because the AFL decided you can only ever have 21 players rotating on the field.

But yeah, we have 5 or 6 blokes fighting for our last couple of spots...

Blair, Krak, Macaffer, L.Davis, Goldsack even Beams may struggle to get in if he doesn't show any good form upon return from his broken foot.

N.Brown was/and is a big loss, it has forced MM hands a bit, ie who knows what he may have had in mind for Taz?

That's why it's hard to get my head around it, Taz has been phenomenal at full back and it's hard to imagine some else doing a better job, it's like he replaced Presti.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Just because the AFL decided you can only ever have 21 players rotating on the field.



That's why it's hard to get my head around it, Taz has been phenomenal at full back and it's hard to imagine some else doing a better job, it's like he replaced Presti.

Nathan Brown DID replace Presti. Remember?

Its always harder to lose your spot than it is to gain it.

 

[Nerv_01]

I dont really think Keefe is adequate coverage for Dawes, he is way too raw and has hardly had any impact in his couple of games.

I keep repeating that, the Pies have more than their fare share of injuries this year....in addition to the 5 that missed against Carlton, Jolly has missed most of the year, B.Johnson has struggled with injury and Maxwell missed the start.

Just because we can keep winning doesn't mean we have been anywhere near full strength yet, as many other supporters seem to suggest.

Carlton are a top4 contender, but they wont trouble Collingwood come finals.

Kreuzer has been out for most of the year, we have never had the luxury of all 3 of our rucks being fit at the same time this year.

Carlton severely lack KPP and our two most important were out yesterday. Dawes and Nathan Brown are less important to you than Jamison and Waite are to us. Keefe may not be 'adequate' replacement but we have nothing close to adequate replacement for Waite. O'hailpin is injured, Henderson is filling the hole left by Jamison, Watson played his 3rd game yesterday. Bret Thornton played a FF is he an adequate replacement for any KPF?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Just because the AFL decided you can only ever have 21 players rotating on the field.

The sub isnt always the 22nd best player in the team.

 

[Rioli magic]

Nathan Brown DID replace Presti. Remember?

Its always harder to lose your spot than it is to gain it.

Presti was injured.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Nathan Brown DID replace Presti. Remember?

Its always harder to lose your spot than it is to gain it.

Wasn't Presti injured?

Tarrant was better last year at Freo than Brown was at Collingwood. Just because Brown's final series was great doesn't mean his entire years was. Tarrant is the better choice of the two.

Anyway this is a thread about Carlton.

 

[doppleganger]

Just because the AFL decided you can only ever have 21 players rotating on the field.

You name 22 each week, the sub is part of the team...and who the sub is may be decided by weather and opposition etc

That's why it's hard to get my head around it, Taz has been phenomenal at full back and it's hard to imagine some else doing a better job, it's like he replaced Presti.

In 2010, Presti and N.Brown both played 13 games each.

N.Brown played the last 7, including playing in Presti's last game for Collingwood in rd 20 against Essendon.

Presti subsequently retired, and there was no doubt the N.Brown was our FB.

 

[Rioli magic]

In 2010, Presti and N.Brown both played 13 games each.

N.Brown played the last 7, including playing in Presti's last game for Collingwood in rd 20 against Essendon.

Presti subsequently retired, and there was no doubt the N.Brown was our FB.

Yeah, but that was the only game they played together. The rest of the season was one or the other, and I think it was Brown replacing the injured Presti.

Anyway this thread should be about Carlton...

 

[4thchicken]

You're never going to have everyone available, so obviously depth plays a big part in a team's fortunes and why Collingwood's gap is increased on challengers like Carlton as the season progresses. Best 21 (+coaching and fitness) Collingwood already have an edge, best 28 that gap widens. It's a competition between teams best 28 or so players over the season, I just wasn't sure if Brown would be in 21 with all available.

That team is pretty similiar to what I had, although I only put in 21 with Blair instead of Krak (coin toss), Shaw and O'Brien swapped positions and N.Brown the one I had missing out.

If you order the AFL ladder by the number of players used then you get
#1 collingwood - 31 players used (least in the comp)
#12-14 blues - 37 players used (equal with adelaide & melbourne)

The use of the 37 players has largely been driven by injuries - not just to starting 22 players but also to the depth players that would otherwise cover these spots (particularly in KPP)

Earlier in the season the margin was 23 pts. Yesterday it was 19 pts

Structurally, the blues are shot due to KPP injuries - jamison, waite, white, setanta, mitchell, hampson - all injured atm, casboult just a couple of weeks back from a long term injury). The only KPP options that we had to bring in against the pies were watson (poor form, 1st yr player), mccarthy (extremely skinny, not physically ready, 1st yr player) and austin (1 game in 2-3 yrs, largely due to injury issues, likely to be gone by seasons end). Of those in the team, bower (multiple quads) and henderson (preseason hip surgery) have had significant injury interruptions this season (fitness issues). Due to the above issues, henderson has been played back (big body) and thornton forward (depite not being able to lead/present to the ball carrier it at least gives us a semi-tall target to kick to).

Once jamison/waite return (both likely by finals), then the blues suddenly have 2 tall targets up forward that will lead and present to the ball carrier (henderson/waite) and a significantly tightened defence (see jamisons work earlier in the season).

Given the above, a 3-4 goal average margin over a season against the #1 side in the competition is more than respectable. It would not surprise me if the margin tightened up again if we met the pies in the finals (especially if waite/jamison are fit)

 

[latrell]

If you order the AFL ladder by the number of players used then you get
#1 collingwood - 31 players used (least in the comp)
#12-14 blues - 37 players used (equal with adelaide & melbourne)

The use of the 37 players has largely been driven by injuries - not just to starting 22 players but also to the depth players that would otherwise cover these spots (particularly in KPP)

Earlier in the season the margin was 23 pts. Yesterday it was 19 pts

Structurally, the blues are shot due to KPP injuries - jamison, waite, white, setanta, mitchell, hampson - all injured atm, casboult just a couple of weeks back from a long term injury). The only KPP options that we had to bring in against the pies were watson (poor form, 1st yr player), mccarthy (extremely skinny, not physically ready, 1st yr player) and austin (1 game in 2-3 yrs, largely due to injury issues, likely to be gone by seasons end). Of those in the team, bower (multiple quads) and henderson (preseason hip surgery) have had significant injury interruptions this season (fitness issues). Due to the above issues, henderson has been played back (big body) and thornton forward (depite not being able to lead/present to the ball carrier it at least gives us a semi-tall target to kick to).

Once jamison/waite return (both likely by finals), then the blues suddenly have 2 tall targets up forward that will lead and present to the ball carrier (henderson/waite) and a significantly tightened defence (see jamisons work earlier in the season).

Given the above, a 3-4 goal average margin over a season against the #1 side in the competition is more than respectable. It would not surprise me if the margin tightened up again if we met the pies in the finals (especially if waite/jamison are fit)

Every one of these KPP's you have mentioned apart from jamison wont get you anywhere.

 

[Worm4]

Every one of these KPP's you have mentioned apart from jamison wont get you anywhere.

A bit harsh on Watson.
Has played 3 games of AFL footy as a key defensive player and is only 18 years old. He will be every bit as good as Prestigiacomo if not better.

 

[DTShowtime]

He will be every bit as good as Prestigiacomo if not better.

From what he has shown thus far, that is sheer & utter delusion.

 

[Malifice]

Carlton showed that its midfield is every bit as good as Collingwood - most teams would kill for Judd and Murphy. However, their forward line is a worry, with Waite and Jamieson's absence (Henderson must play back) forcing a strategy of playing Kreuzer forward and hoping the smalls get enough crumbs.

Will this strategy work against the very best full-backs who will outmark Kreuze, denying crumbs? Hendo isn't good enough to play against the gorillas, although besides Cloke there aren't too many around. Does he enough strength to out-wrestle Hurley?

This.

We had Tarrant playing on Betts who was giving away nearly a foot in height and around 20 kilos.

We're off the mark at the moment, but its not a yawning 12 goal chasm that Collingwood would have you believe.

Jamision down back would have been handy (two turnovers from the inexperienced Watson could have been avoided, and Clokes influence would have been curtailed).

Slot us in a key marking forward (personally I prefer Waite down back when he's not injured) or two, and we'll be right up there.

Window opens next year for us and the problem is I cant see where we can get one from.

Maybe a mature VFL/WAFL/SANFL player while our younger talls develop?

 

[Malifice]

Seems Mark Robinson agrees with my assesment:

IT WAS a subdued victory, if there is such a thing at Collingwood.

On the ground, the Magpies held the Blues at arm's length in a spirited contest, but the more you watched this game, the more you realised how desperately Carlton need a genuine key forward.

They were patched up yesterday, with Jarrad Waite missing, Michael Jamison missing, Lachie Henderson being rag-dolled by Travis Cloke and rookie defender Matthew Watson not knowing when to go long or go short. He preferred the latter, to some disastrous results.

With Judd starring, Murphy and Gibbs not too far behind him, and Simpson holding his own against Dale Thomas, the Blues narrowly lost yesterday's battle. The war, though, is yet to be decided.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-desperately-needs-a-key-forward/story-e6frf9jf-1226096019357

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Presti was injured.

And close to retirement.

Brown, like Dawes and Reid from the same daft year, were developed slowly in the VFL. None were in our best 22 at the start of the season. All were by the end of the year.

 

[4thchicken]

Every one of these KPP's you have mentioned apart from jamison wont get you anywhere.

The point was that the blues dont have any team structure atm because most of the talls that would normally be utilised in those positions are unavailable due to injury or are coming back from injury.

There are plenty of teams that have performed reasonably well despite having a lack of gun KPPs.