Carlton

[MACDAICOS]

Murphy proving how mentally fragile Carlton are.

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/...se-against-redhot-magpies-20110711-1h9yy.html



I would have thought your place in the top 4 is something to lose "Marc".

Yep. Heard it all before.

Glad our mob do it's talking on the feild. They will huff and puff for a half then get blown away (again)

 

[Squida25]

All of a sudden I'm worried we're destined for another first week finals exit, surely not .

 

[chestbrah]

Carlton are getting ready for Collingwood, not the Bulldogs. Not that they wouldn't knock back the 4 points. The Bulldogs are starting to play pretty good and caught them.

I expect Carlton to turn it on next week.

Great teams don't pick and choose their weeks mate.

 

[Coolangatta]

All of a sudden I'm worried we're destined for another first week finals exit, surely not .

Ratten would surely get the sack if that happened, wouldn't he? Is it safe to say that if Carlton don't at least get to the semi-finals then he'll be out the door, right?

 

[jonoman89]

I think its becoming obvious that Carlton haven't improved at all from last year. The only reason they are higher on the ladder is because half of the top 8 has fallen away so they moved up by default.

Rubbish. We've improved heaps.

We haven't been in a position to reach top 4 in 10 years, and the weight of that tag is quite clearly not sitting that well with us atm.

We're in a form slump no doubt, but we have time to get back into the swing of things. Waite, Jamison and Curnow will be in our side and fit for the finals series.

Making the top 4 will be difficult considering how hard our draw is. If we lose to Collingwood we'll need to win every game after that and hope WCE drop 1 or 2.

Carlton v Hawthorn could very well be the battle for 4th spot.

 

[weagle]

Maybe we should do a Freo of last year when they rested like 12 players against Hawthorn in Launceston. I mean we aren't going to win regardless, just get everyone fit and firing for the business end of the season.

Though that would anger the AFL greatly, making a mockery of a blockbuster.

Yeah, save your players from the effects of all that travel.

 

[Thommo 42]

As my old man used to say, if someone says they have nothing to lose. They will win nothing.

 

[harmesy 37]

You think the umps dont look at the stats. They always even them up by the end of the game. They had the whistle up their bum in the last quarter, dogs could have shot someone and got 'play on'. Fair enough too, the umps almost decided the game in the 2nd quarter.

The first 50 metre paid against the Dogs was a joke and shouldn't have been paid. I hate the 50 metre penalty for creeping a centimetre over the line either way.

The 2nd one was there - the one where your David ? (footscray) Murphy basically went a metre over the line. That is an example when a 50 is warranted.

In the 2nd half the umpires looked to square up and wouldn't have given a free kick to Carlton even if one of our players had been punched in the jaw. Garlett and Duigan were basically forced to the ground without the ball - both at crucial times and both got no free kicks. Even the commentary team - who were obviously anti-Carlton - Healy and that ex-Collingwood bloke - noticed these ones.


Carlton's injuries are catching up with them. Having Carazzo out was a big factor. I reckon they might need a big bloke on the forward line to shore up their little forward line....but not Warnock. He does nothing other than ruck. I never thought I would say this but I will look forward to Hampson coming back. Warnock needs to be able to do more than just ruck.


If we get within 30 points of the Pies it will be a miracle. No point going to the match at the G for me. It will be game over by half time. There is nothing worse than gloating Collingwood supporters.

 

[JDogg]

No Jamison, No Carlton.

Has been out for 3 weeks, you have lost 2.

Would want to hope he's back in a few weeks or its season over and career over for Ratts.

 

[jonoman89]

No Jamison, No Carlton.

Sadly, this could very well be correct.

For years Carlton has been labelled Judd reliant. Not the case....we have a good midfield now and Judd is a massive part of it, but it's pretty obvious we have the class in the centre to cover him against most sides. We have still been able to win a few games without Judd, even in 2008 when Judd did a lot more heavy lifting than in 2011.

But as far as KPP depth goes, we are in a world of shit. Jamison is a brilliant player who i think will end up one of the best tall defenders in Carlton's history (yes, i rate him that much). But after that we are in strife

Tall defenders:

- Jamison. Absolute gun. Injury prone to hell though, and can't seem to play more than 10 games without picking up some sort of problem. Now that his shoulder issues aren't recurring, i think he just needs a bit of luck on his side.

- Bower. Was our CHB for years but hasn't been able to get on the park for the best part of 2010 and 2011 due to quad injuries. Has lots of talent, but he needs time to get his mojo back. He needs to stay in our side to bring him back up to speed for finals.

- Thornton. Old workhorse. Not a stopper at all, can get towelled up one out. But he gives us a good 3rd man up option and is a wisehead down back. Has had many more good games than bad ones this year.

- Austin. Injury prone and will be delisted at the end of the year.

- Watson. Has all the tools, just needs to grow into his body. I can't see him offering anything to us at senior level until 2012 at the earliest. probably not until 2013.

- McCarthy. Atheltic tall defender who has shown good form in the VFL. Will take longer to fill out than Watson due to his slight build.

Tall forwards:

- Waite. Very good player, underrated by many. Carries 90% of the crash and bash work of our forward line. When he is out the structure of our forward lines goes to shit. No one can bring the ball to ground effectively for our smaller blokes to crumb off.

- Walker. Not tall enough to be crash and bash. Has had a fantastic season, but he can't be anything more to us than a very handy 3rd tall option.

- Henderson. Now playing in the backline to cover Jamo, and TBH i can't see him playing forward again this season. He's been good for us down back.

- Mitchell. Injury prone and far too young to make an impact.

- Kreuzer. Isn't in the forward line long enough due to his rucking. Coming back from an ACL so to expect anything other than pure effort (which Kreuzer provides in spades) is unrealistic.

- Setanta. Tries his guts out and seems to make our forward line gel a lot better. I want him back in the side with Waite out, no questions asked.

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Carlton desperately need more KPPs. I would be willing to trade some our good smaller blokes for decent taller players in the trade period. Despite our midfield being one of the best in the business, the depth at the other ends of the ground cost us.

I would give my left nut for Daniel Merret and Jarryd Roughead. Exactly the kind of players we need right now.

 

[Thrawn]

A question for the neutral supporters here - who do you consider Carlton's most important player (aside from Judd) - Jamison or Waite? Waite can be covered to an extent, but not Jamison - we have no one else to go with the bigger forwards. He had them covered, and strengthened our backline significantly.

No one can bring the ball to ground effectively for our smaller blokes to crumb off.

Kreuzer would disagree. Always provides a contest, and can pluck a few marks too. I think we will have to persist with him in a forward position until Waite comes back. Warnock may well have to take the bulk of the ruckwork.

 

[Poseidon]

Setanta gets labelled a spud on BF but he could provide a good cover while Waite is out. Always provides a contest and his set shots are underrated.

 

[jonoman89]

Kreuzer would disagree. Always provides a contest, and can pluck a few marks too. I think we will have to persist with him in a forward position until Waite comes back. Warnock may well have to take the bulk of the ruckwork.

As i have said, Kreuze isn't in the forward line long enough to do that consistently for us.

 

[Thrawn]

As i have said, Kreuze isn't in the forward line long enough to do that consistently for us.

He might well have to until Waite comes back.

 

[jonoman89]

He might well have to until Waite comes back.

Seems to be our only option. And that robs us of his pressure at the stoppages.

We're in a world of hurt at the moment as far as our structure is concerned.

 

[rainman06]

A question for the neutral supporters here - who do you consider Carlton's most important player (aside from Judd) - Jamison or Waite? Waite can be covered to an extent, but not Jamison - we have no one else to go with the bigger forwards. He had them covered, and strengthened our backline significantly.



Kreuzer would disagree. Always provides a contest, and can pluck a few marks too. I think we will have to persist with him in a forward position until Waite comes back. Warnock may well have to take the bulk of the ruckwork.

Watching the game on the weekend, I thought having Waite out from early on hurt you more than having Jamison out. Sure Hall kicked 4 but watching the way the forward structure broke down without Waite made me think his value is significantly greater than his actual tangible output and is your most important player bar none. The amount of times Carlton stagnated with the ball through the middle of the ground and around half back was staggering, they just had nothing to kick to.

 

[Thommo 42]

Can someone be honest and tell us exactly which genuine best 22 players Carlton are missing?

I would have thought it was a pretty short list comprising of Jamison, Waite, Curnow and Carazzo?

 

[Corrosion]

Can someone be honest and tell us exactly which genuine best 22 players Carlton are missing?

I would have thought it was a pretty short list comprising of Jamison, Waite, Curnow and Carazzo?

Add in Hampson over Warnock as he offers much more than Warnock, especially when going forward. White is arguably best 22 as well, but he is consistently injured.

Having no Waite and Jamison (See West Coast and Dogs games) just kill our structure and it is painful to watch when they're missing.

 

[Stamos]

Can someone be honest and tell us exactly which genuine best 22 players Carlton are missing?

I would have thought it was a pretty short list comprising of Jamison, Waite, Curnow and Carazzo?

On form this year, Hampson would be ahead of Warnock.

Our biggest issue after Waite and Jamo though is all our back-up KPPs, who are not in our best 22, are also injured, except for Austin, who has played 1 senior game in 2 years due to injury, and Watson who is in his first year, and not properly developed.

 

[Mancey]

Their missing KPP are exacerbating a problem they have had all season, their contested marking.

Ranked 13th in the league, and in these days of forward presses having good contested marks in your team is just about essential for success.

Hawks are in the same boat after losing so many of their talls, but have got around it by great ball use and racking up huge uncontested possession numbers.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Nice to see some other teams having to deal with injuries. If the Blues get blown away by the Pies and lose to the Bombers, top four is gone and so are their premiership hopes.

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

Their missing KPP are exacerbating a problem they have had all season, their contested marking.

Ranked 13th in the league, and in these days of forward presses having good contested marks in your team is just about essential for success.

Hawks are in the same boat after losing so many of their talls, but have got around it by great ball use and racking up huge uncontested possession numbers.

..agreed, this season the gameplan's been more about uncontested marking [leading targets] over kicking to packs.. ..Walker and Waite are the usual hit-up leading fwd targets, as are also Betts and Garlett [when delivery is on top of their heads].. ..when playing to our best our run and carry along with our spread has enabled our mids to hit up fwds on the lead and also to run in and kick the goals themselves..

..while we may still finish a top 4 team [50/50], it's also the consistency of influential players coming in and out of the side that has gones against us playing with a settled side.. ..good additions of Duigan and Laidler gave our backline a good boost but are still 1st year blues players that have been in and out.. ..Waite's been in and out a couple of times, as had Jamo.. ..similar situation with the rucks.. .... ..smaller blokes have been more 'durable' but this season our kpp stocks have been up and down for the most part..

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

Nice to see some other teams having to deal with injuries. If the Blues get blown away by the Pies and lose to the Bombers, top four is gone and so are their premiership hopes.

..percentages could become a factor agreed, if the pies roll us by a heap then our % will take a hit.. ..but i don't believe its a case of the blues are shakey, and hawks&wce are running strong.. ..any of those 3 teams could drop a game/s that they're expected to beat.. ..hawks' injuries are getting harder to cover, plus all the hard and extra work fit players are doing onfield to cover younger/lighter/inexperienced players beside them will also be taking it's toll.. ..wce have a huge work rate that may begin impacting fitness levels plus their extra traveling could also see them drop games unexpectedly.. ..blues are gonna have to rejig their bookends, and could hit a working formula that see's them back on a roll..

..basically it's still very much an open season..

 

[laminex]

Can someone be honest and tell us exactly which genuine best 22 players Carlton are missing?

I would have thought it was a pretty short list comprising of Jamison, Waite, Curnow and Carazzo?

It's not just them, it's the players who come in to cover for them, Bower or Austin should cover for Jamo but Both have been injured, When Waite goes down then Carlos should come but he is also injured. It is not the problem of losing one but losing the back up that is a problem.

 

[laminex]

Nice to see some other teams having to deal with injuries. If the Blues get blown away by the Pies and lose to the Bombers, top four is gone and so are their premiership hopes.

Must be nice be the sort of person who needs others to lose to feel like they can win.

Real nice.....