Carlton

[bourbons]

Missing , our FB CHB CHF and FF and #1 ruck and now our #2 ruck, no we have had it easy.

Really big footy brings out the dead.

Who are we missing from FF?

 

[Blue1980]

Who are we missing from FF?

Rohan Welsh

In all seriousness we have had injuries to our talls which we couldn't afford because we have little depth there. All the guys we recruited for last year are either injured or not ready (Watson but he may have to come in anyway).

 

[Thommo 42]

With the exception of Jolly and now Dawes, the Pies injuries have been mainly to smaller players. Though admittedly the depth of Collingwood and the ability of even first year players to slot into the system has been sublime, though Cam Wood showed he is still a battler.

We lost Nathan Brown for the entire season before Round 1. Jolly was out for 10 weeks, now Dawes is out. I'd rate these as big players. Full back, full forward and ruckman.

 

[DTShowtime]

Who is the Carlton FF who has missed games?

 

[Mancey]

Who is the Carlton FF who has missed games?

Lance Whitnall

 

[The_cockateil]

Who is the Carlton FF who has missed games?

Fevola.

 

[Stamos]

Who is the Carlton FF who has missed games?

Waite (and O'Hailpin, who would be the back-up FF)

 

[DTShowtime]

Waite (and O'Hailpin, who would be the back-up FF)

So the CHF & FF are being doubled up as 2 outs even though it relates to 1 player?

 

[laminex]

Who are we missing from FF?

Jamo
Bower
Hendo
Waite

Have all been injured for a good period of 2011

Also Austin and Carlos.

Thats front to back and our back up's.

 

[jonoman89]

So the CHF & FF are being doubled up as 2 outs even though it relates to 1 player?

No.

Waite is our FF and he's injured. Our second choice FF is Setanta, and he's injured. We have no one who can play that role ATM save Kreuzer who also rucks. Our CHF was Henderson, but he's playing at CHB atm. So we have no FF or CHF right now, just bit part players.

Against the Pies we will have no FB, CHF, FF or our 2nd ruck. Our proper CHB in Bower will be playing, but he has barely played in 2 years and was playing forward last week.

 

[DTShowtime]

Our CHF was Henderson, but he's playing at CHB atm. So we have no FF or CHF right now, just bit part players.

You can't count Henderson as the CHF being out. He's playing & his coach has decided he is best served elsewhere. There are other defenders such as Bower & Thortnon who could play FB before Henderson. Setanta is not in your best 22 & shouldn't in discussions RE your outs.

Your FB is out & so is Waite. Waite has never been a stay at home CHF b/c he hasn't played enough quality games to be called a bonafide CHF, even when you've have had your best 22 on the park, Waite has floated b/w defence & attack. Your excuses are heart warming.

 

[Thommo 42]

Actually, we will have our FB and FF out this week, as well as a dual All-Australian midfielder/forward, a 20 year old who averaged 20+ disposals a game last year and kicked 30 goals (6th in B&F), another premiership forward and a 200 game HBF.

 

[jonoman89]

You can't count Henderson as the CHF being out. He's playing & his coach has decided he is best served elsewhere.

Well, i can actually, because he isn't playing CHF. Therefore we have no CHF.

If he was playing at CHF then i could say we are missing our CHB, because that's where Hendo is currently playing. Bower, our actual CHB, isn't playing there either. Therefore we would have no one playing that role.

Either way we're missing a CHB or CHF.

There are other defenders such as Bower & Thortnon who could play FB before Henderson. Setanta is not in your best 22 & shouldn't in discussions RE your outs.

Bower and Thornton definitely are not full backs. Thornton 3rd tall, Bower CHB. And Bower isn't even playing in the backline, he was at half forward last week for some odd reason.

Setanta isn't in our best 22, that is correct. But he is depth for the FF position, and with our FF in Waite out we have no one to play that role.

Your FB is out & so is Waite. Waite has never been a stay at home CHF b/c he hasn't played enough quality games to be called a bonafide CHF, even when you've have had your best 22 on the park, Waite has floated b/w defence & attack.

Waite has been a FF, not a CHF. He starts his leads from the goal square.

Waite has not played in defense for over 2 years.

Your excuses are heart warming.

Your lack of knowledge about Carlton is equally heart warming. These aren't excuses, they're just reasons why i think Carlton has and will struggle over the next fews weeks. I fully expect to win more games than lose until finals.

 

[jonoman89]

Actually, we will have our FB and FF out this week, as well as a dual All-Australian midfielder/forward, a 20 year old who averaged 20+ disposals a game last year and kicked 30 goals (6th in B&F), another premiership forward and a 200 game HBF.

Collingwood obviously has a lot more depth than us. Anyone can see that. You can cover those injuries much more easily than us.

You should thump us this weekend. If we play like last week we don't deserve to lose by any margin less than 100 pts, regardless of any injuries.

 

[DTShowtime]

Well, i can actually, because he isn't playing CHF. Therefore we have no CHF.

The fact that you have no CHF is not a product of injury to your CHF. Ratten has decided that Henderson is best served as a defender, not a forward. Thus you can't say your CHF is injured/out.

If he was playing at CHF then i could say we are missing our CHB, because that's where Hendo is currently playing.

Henderson played at FB on Barry Hall on Sunday.

Either way we're missing a CHB or CHF.

No, you're missing your FB, who is Jamieson. Your CHF isn't injured, he has been deployed elsewhere.

Bower and Thornton definitely are not full backs.

Thornton had been superseeded by Jamieson. When Jamieson was out, Thornton went to FB, Round 1 this year is a good example of this. Whether he is a good FB is another question.

Bower CHB.

Either way we're missing a CHB

You have directly contradicted yourself.

Waite has not played in defense for over 2 years.

Then he must have done a good impersonation of someone who doesn't play in defense when he played on Dawes last year. Keep up the excuses, you are missing your FB & CHF. 2 KPP outs.

 

[laminex]

You can't count Henderson as the CHF being out. He's playing & his coach has decided he is best served elsewhere. There are other defenders such as Bower & Thortnon who could play FB before Henderson. Setanta is not in your best 22 & shouldn't in discussions RE your outs.

Your FB is out & so is Waite. Waite has never been a stay at home CHF b/c he hasn't played enough quality games to be called a bonafide CHF, even when you've have had your best 22 on the park, Waite has floated b/w defence & attack. Your excuses are heart warming.

Why are you trying to bring what has been a good thread down to your very low trolling level, Go away if you do not want to talk like an adult.

 

[jonoman89]

The fact that you have no CHF is not a product of injury to your CHF. Ratten has decided that Henderson is best served as a defender, not a forward. Thus you can't say your CHF is injured/out.

Yes we can, cause we have no one currently playing CHF.

If Travis Cloke was playing in defense then you could say you are missing your CHF.

You can't have a CHF if no one is playing there, despite having a player in the team who can play that position. If they aren't playing that role, then they aren't assuming that role.

Henderson played at FB on Barry Hall on Sunday.

CHB actually, Hall was starting his leads further down the ground than the goal square. Grant and Jones were rotating through the goal square.

Hendo played FB the week before on Reiwoldt though.

No, you're missing your FB, who is Jamieson. Your CHF isn't injured, he has been deployed elsewhere.

Never said Hendo was injured (at the moment). Yes, he has been delpoyed elsewhere meaning we don't have anyone playing CHF.

Thornton had been superseeded by Jamieson. When Jamieson was out, Thornton went to FB, Round 1 this year is a good example of this. Whether he is a good FB is another question.

Thornton can line up in the goal square against who ever he likes. Doesn't mean he's a bona fide full back.

Chris Judd could line up back there and "play full back". Doesn't mean he is a full back.

Under no circumstance would we play Thornton from the goal square if injuries permitted it.

You have directly contradicted yourself.

How's that? Bower is our natural CHB, and played that role for 3 years up until 2009 when his horror injury run began. As i said, he's been playing half forward. He wouldn't even be in the team at the moment if Jamison and White were playing.

He can't be playing CHB if he is in the forward line.

Then he must have done a good impersonation of someone who doesn't play in defense when he played on Dawes last year. Keep up the excuses, you are missing your FB & CHF. 2 KPP outs.

Oh Lord.

More than that actually, if you look back a few posts you'll say that our tall players have played something like 60% of games this season. Waite, Jamison, Bower, Austin, Setanta, Henderson, White, Laidler, Kreuzer, Warnock, Hampson, Watson have all missed multiple games this season when they would have been playing senior football. We have had 0 continuity in any key position. Now we are paying for it.

Using your logic, if we played Jamison, Henderson, Waite, Kreuzer and every other tall player as a midfielder then we would still have a FB, CHF, FF and Ruck in the team because that's their natural positions.

Whilst they may naturally play those positions, they are not playing there. Therefore they are not playing as key position players....they aren't playing in those key positions if they play in the midfield now are they?

Honestly, it's not that difficult to understand.

 

[laminex]

Actually, we will have our FB and FF out this week, as well as a dual All-Australian midfielder/forward, a 20 year old who averaged 20+ disposals a game last year and kicked 30 goals (6th in B&F), another premiership forward and a 200 game HBF.

Mate i am not trying to have a pissing contest here, If you look at the posts i am not talking about this week. I am more talking over this season and in am not saying we have been hit hard or harder than any other team. Collingwood people try to make everything about them because they like to feel like victims. I am also not here to say if Carlton are a better team team than any other team because to be honest i don't give a flying fk. I do not pick the side, coach the side or have any say over anything at the club. My job is to support and buy a membership and thats all i do nothing more and nothing less. I enjoy win and hate loss but if we win or lose it means nothing, it's not going to cost me or make me money so who cares.

 

[fishardansin]

In the end Carlton have the best, or 2nd best, medfielder in the comp. Murphy has taken great steps this year and there is the usual support crew of Simpson, Scotland and a few others. They looked ever better when Curnow was playing. This midfield hides how bad your KPP stocks are, much like Fletcher lessened the blow of how bad the Essendon mids were over the last decade.

I rate Jamison and Waite. They are good AFL KPPs and allow the other crap ones at Carlton to play bit parts. With them gone the other crap ones will be exposed having to be "the man" at either end.

Essendon has only had a few games out of Pears, Hurley and Hooker have missed games through injury, Gumby has been out all season, Fletch has carried a knee injury and Carlisle isn't ready yet. This sort of hit rate is to be expected. We have managed to cover that.

List management has been stuffed at Carlton by the midfield obsession. The funniest drafting was when Fev left. The pick you got for Fev and your orignal one should have both been used on KPPs. McLean and Lucas were just not what you needed, despite what anyone thinks of their abilities.

I also wouldn't count your rucks in that either. I didn't count Essendon rucks as part of our KPPs, even though Ryder could be a very good KPP if someone injects him with intensity.

The other thing that Carlton has struggled with is the coaches. Essendon lost it's best running forward and running back, coincidently against Carlton, for the season. The game plan has changed as we obviously would be effected by our ability to spread. The best thing about the coaching it changed on the day and Essendon went immediately to a St Kilda/Sydney lock down game plan. We have played with a fair bit of that.

I can guarantee you Essendon will play a little differently when those two are back next year.

Carlton hasn't changed the way it moves the ball or defends in the absense of these players. Yes they are unreplaceable with your list but a game plan can be tweaked so their absense isn't so damaging. That hasn't happened.

 

[laminex]

In the end Carlton have the best, or 2nd best, medfielder in the comp. Murphy has taken great steps this year and there is the usual support crew of Simpson, Scotland and a few others. They looked ever better when Curnow was playing. This midfield hides how bad your KPP stocks are, much like Fletcher lessened the blow of how bad the Essendon mids were over the last decade.

I rate Jamison and Waite. They are good AFL KPPs and allow the other crap ones at Carlton to play bit parts. With them gone the other crap ones will be exposed having to be "the man" at either end.

Essendon has only had a few games out of Pears, Hurley and Hooker have missed games through injury, Gumby has been out all season, Fletch has carried a knee injury and Carlisle isn't ready yet. This sort of hit rate is to be expected. We have managed to cover that.

List management has been stuffed at Carlton by the midfield obsession. The funniest drafting was when Fev left. The pick you got for Fev and your orignal one should have both been used on KPPs. McLean and Lucas were just not what you needed, despite what anyone thinks of their abilities.

I also wouldn't count your rucks in that either. I didn't count Essendon rucks as part of our KPPs, even though Ryder could be a very good KPP if someone injects him with intensity.

The other thing that Carlton has struggled with is the coaches. Essendon lost it's best running forward and running back, coincidently against Carlton, for the season. The game plan has changed as we obviously would be effected by our ability to spread. The best thing about the coaching it changed on the day and Essendon went immediately to a St Kilda/Sydney lock down game plan. We have played with a fair bit of that.

I can guarantee you Essendon will play a little differently when those two are back next year.

Carlton hasn't changed the way it moves the ball or defends in the absense of these players. Yes they are unreplaceable with your list but a game plan can be tweaked so their absense isn't so damaging. That hasn't happened.

Everyone keeps saying how good Hurly is (and he is) but for me Pears and Frawley (Dees) are the 2 best young backmen in the comp.

 

[DidakDelight]

Carlton are best described as a bunch of hacks, with a few number 1 draft picks + C.Judd and a very soft underbelly.

 

[fishardansin]

Everyone keeps saying how good Hurly is (and he is) but for me Pears and Frawley (Dees) are the 2 best young backmen in the comp.

I agree that Frawley is a gun and Pears was tracking to be as good until he got hurt last year. However, Hurley is a better footballer than Pears, that is no slight on Pears Hurley is just that good. However, in your thinking Hurley is a bit of a Silvagni and is as damaging at either end. With Kernahan running riot up one end for you blokes Silvagni was more important to your team down back even though he could have been one of the best FFs going around.

At Essendon it is much the same with Hooker and Pears being assisted by Fletcher and Carlisle seemingly being groomed to be a very tall 3rd tall, what Fletch does now, Hurley is not needed down back. With our rucks showing that they aren't FFs this year and Gumby's body remaining a mystery Hurley is needed up forward and I'm guessing that is where he'd play.

 

[jonoman89]

Definitely rate Hurley above Pears. Pears isn't as good one on one.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Carlton are best described as a bunch of hacks, with a few number 1 draft picks + C.Judd and a very soft underbelly.

I tend to agree without using the word hacks.

Their players 12-22 are not up to top 4 standard and their depth is very very average.

They'll be found out over the next few weeks without Jamieson, Waite and a tough draw.

Wouldnt suprise me if they dropped to 6th.

 

[Blue and Silver]

I tend to agree without using the word hacks.

Their players 12-22 are not up to top 4 standard and their depth is very very average.

They'll be found out over the next few weeks without Jamieson, Waite and a tough draw.

Wouldnt suprise me if they dropped to 6th.

Who are our bottom 10 players?

As I rate them the side goes as follows:

Judd
Murphy
Scotland
Jamison
Kreuzer
Gibbs
Garlett
Simpson
Yarran
Walker
Waite
Robinson

Which leaves:
Carazzo
Warnock
Duigan
Laidler
Betts
Henderson
Bower
Houlihan
Curnow
Ellard

Some real handy players in there. Betts has kicked 20 plus goals, Carazzo won a Best and Fairest, Warnock has turned it on before. The rest of that list bring a variety of qualities to the side. Mostly in courage and dedication, but also some flair and skill.