List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread (cont. in Part 2)

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Farktherest

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I don't like them

Once we finally become good I want it to be harder for the other teams to put together quick rebuilds, plus the non transparency irks me as it's open for AFL corruption.
Quick rebuilds? This year will be our 4th consecutive low finish.
We deserve/need a PP we definitely qualify.

The AFL already gave Brisbane pick 19 recently and helped GC get pick 19 in the Ablett trade which was overs.
It's our turn.

Put away the pride, it will help improve our list and help us ascend the ladder quicker.
 

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Blue_Fusion

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How would you compare them if you were a recruiter?
Both incredible talents?

Then I look at what we currently have on our list. Which is pretty much what I've been saying the whole time. We have Charlie and Harry. They've shown a bit, Charlie more so, but Harry has been given his chance and looking like he'll be a good ff. Plus we will be taking Ben Silvagni and have Kerr + TDK as well. We don't need another list spot taken by a kpf. Especially when we have quite a few taken by kpd's as well.

I look at our midfield and it definitely needs more A grade talent.

So the choice for me becomes simple. Go for the mid.
 

Farktherest

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True but it seems when talking of trading these picks all of a sudden the kids are the best ever and the fact they are rarely the best player is not considered.

With this in mind it makes it easier for me to be happy if we overlook the KPF who is supposedly the best player and pick the best mid.

Maybe it can be a strategy when drafting, whoever everyone thinks is the standout number 1, don't pick him.
Agree.

I have a whole bunch of reasons for wanting a mid no matter what with our first pick which i've posted several times...this is another way to look at it.

It may seem silly, but i doubt there'd be a huge difference in ratings between say pick 1 and 2. If Lukosius was rated 1 and a gun mid rated 2, i'd go for the mid...as you say history shows there is every chance our midfielder would end up being just as good anyway.

Clubs have gone away from simply picking the 'best available'...there is always an element of 'needs' in every pick. What if we had pick 1 and the best rated kid was ANOTHER KPD??? Would people still say pick him because he's rated the best? That would be list balance suicide.
 

Farktherest

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Both incredible talents?

Then I look at what we currently have on our list. Which is pretty much what I've been saying the whole time. We have Charlie and Harry. They've shown a bit, Charlie more so, but Harry has been given his chance and looking like he'll be a good ff. Plus we will be taking Ben Silvagni and have Kerr + TDK as well. We don't need another list spot taken by a kpf. Especially when we have quite a few taken by kpd's as well.

I look at our midfield and it definitely needs more A grade talent.

So the choice for me becomes simple. Go for the mid.
Not sure we'll be able to change Arrow's mind...which is fine everyone is entitled to their opinion.

But it seems so obvious that this is the way to go though for the reasons you've stated...plus the importance of the big key forwards has diminished.

Another way to describe it is champion team > team of champions. Guys like Arrow just want to get best available no matter what and accumulate the most talented players we can...however i'd argue we're seeing more and more that team balance and structure is more important than individual talent. And that's where drafting a midfielder comes in.

Looking at Richmond's list outside of their well-known stars the list looks average on paper...but they are playing to a winning structure that works for them.

Given our obvious problem is we have too many tall, slow players and not enough mids and small forwards, i just don't see why people still want to draft a KPF with our precious first pick, especially when we will draft Ben SOS already. Plus out young KPF's will struggle to develop and have an impact if our midfield keeps struggling and starving them of good opportunities anyway.
 

Blue Flame

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Blue Flame's bold predictions time.

1. Lukoscius will not go number 1, nor will he be in the best three players from his draft year, in hindsight.
2. Both King brothers will go on to be reasonable, but not superstar, KPP.
3. Walsh will always be criticised for his kicking (see Treloar, but a bit better).
4. Rankine will be called SPEEESHALLL.
5. There will be plenty of good players, but in hindsight we'll laugh about it being a "superdraft."
6. SOS will try to get an extra first round through trades, rather than trading ours down.
7. A hitherto under-the-radar kid will be considered the best, a few years on.
8. We will be angry about whomever we pick.

Caveat lector... My last bold prediction was that touch screen phones were a fad.
 
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Really liked what Cal Twomey suggested in an article this morning, recruit Mitch Walis as a FA and trade for Will Setterfield, that way you fill needs to gain a great young Mid and also a mature and competitive Mid, you can then draft the best player talent wise that you see fit.

Lukosios, Rankine then Walsh would be my preferred order however wouldn’t be dissapointed with any.

The prospect of Jack and Charlie in the same forward line is pretty hard to go past though
Don' mind it but setterfield wouldn't be cheap
 

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Everybody knows we need more midfielders desperately. The problem is if we finish last at this moment in time Lukoscius is clearly the best player in the draft. If you ask the 18 head recruiters all of them will say Lukoscius is the best player without a doubt. Big risk not taking him if he clearly is number 1. Take the best available with your high end picks especially on a rebuild.

I look at it like this. If we could have another Petrevski-Seton or Charlie Curnow on our list who would you take?

When was the last time we scored 100 points in a game? I know you need the supply from the midfield but we still need another quality forward. I wouldn't be relying on Kerr and the Silvagni boys to be the solution. TDK will be more of a ruckman than a kpf.

Having said all that and Rankine or Walsh overtake Lukoscius in the best available player then i would recruit them.
 

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I’m really looking forward to seeing how lukoscius and Rankine go in the champs. There form may make this discussion mute with one dominating and the other struggling.

In my head there is conflict about which one to take. I really want a midfielder but there is a voice in the back of my head saying you cannot overlook a player like lukoscius.

Hopefully it will be an easy decision in a few months.


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therubbernub

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yes but when the talent is rated similar you go the player that best fits our needs.

and elite midfield is not a 'supposed' need. it is a requirement in this day and age.
Can 18 sides all have an elite midfield? What makes them elite if they are all elite?
 

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Blue Flame

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Everybody knows we need more midfielders desperately. The problem is if we finish last at this moment in time Lukoscius is clearly the best player in the draft. If you ask the 18 head recruiters all of them will say Lukoscius is the best player without a doubt. Big risk not taking him if he clearly is number 1. Take the best available with your high end picks especially on a rebuild.

I look at it like this. If we could have another Petrevski-Seton or Charlie Curnow on our list who would you take?

When was the last time we scored 100 points in a game? I know you need the supply from the midfield but we still need another quality forward. I wouldn't be relying on Kerr and the Silvagni boys to be the solution. TDK will be more of a ruckman than a kpf.

Having said all that and Rankine or Walsh overtake Lukoscius in the best available player then i would recruit them.
Do we know for sure they would all say this though? I was under the impression quite a few would have taken King.
 

Arr0w

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Both incredible talents?

Then I look at what we currently have on our list. Which is pretty much what I've been saying the whole time. We have Charlie and Harry. They've shown a bit, Charlie more so, but Harry has been given his chance and looking like he'll be a good ff. Plus we will be taking Ben Silvagni and have Kerr + TDK as well. We don't need another list spot taken by a kpf. Especially when we have quite a few taken by kpd's as well.

I look at our midfield and it definitely needs more A grade talent.

So the choice for me becomes simple. Go for the mid.
:D
 

Arr0w

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Hahahahahaha nice move. Back track on that statement because our posts in that thread were removed due to site issues. It was in the 2018 draft thread and you know you said that. If anything, I referenced it here and you did not object...

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...ent-discussion.1186643/page-108#post-55099999

Assuming our picks remain tied to our current position and no compo picks (I cbf guessing that)

1 - Rankine
22 - I'd look for a mid here that has the most speed + disposal skill available
32 - Best inside mid available
55 - Ben Silvagni
73 - Not fussed here, if pressed, I'd grab a small defender

I don't really see many significant trades happening. We don't have much trade value left and highly doubt we'll want to part with our picks this year. Wines for our 2019 1st is the only one that might happen but a lot has to play out for that. If not, perhaps our 2019 2nd will get involved for someone SOS has his eye on.

Every player we take must have a backbone though. I can't stand afraid of contact types in a contact sport.

Rankine + another fast mid with reasonable disposal will give our team the injection of speed it needs.

Another inside mid to help out in the guts.

Simmo is getting on in age, will retire in the near future. Wouldn't mind getting a small defender with some pace.
:D
 

Blue_Fusion

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Everybody knows we need more midfielders desperately. The problem is if we finish last at this moment in time Lukoscius is clearly the best player in the draft. If you ask the 18 head recruiters all of them will say Lukoscius is the best player without a doubt. Big risk not taking him if he clearly is number 1. Take the best available with your high end picks especially on a rebuild.

I look at it like this. If we could have another Petrevski-Seton or Charlie Curnow on our list who would you take?

When was the last time we scored 100 points in a game? I know you need the supply from the midfield but we still need another quality forward. I wouldn't be relying on Kerr and the Silvagni boys to be the solution. TDK will be more of a ruckman than a kpf.

Having said all that and Rankine or Walsh overtake Lukoscius in the best available player then i would recruit them.
We haven't scored 100 points because we don't have enough mids chipping in and kicking goals. We also don't have any good small or medium forwards that apply forward tackling pressure. Wright is way too hot and cold. Jack has gone backwards this year, Garlett not up to it and Pickett injured. Lamb I often forget he's even playing most of the time.

As for recruiters all saying Lukosius is the best player, I doubt that is actually the case.
 

rog1995

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Everybody knows we need more midfielders desperately. The problem is if we finish last at this moment in time Lukoscius is clearly the best player in the draft. If you ask the 18 head recruiters all of them will say Lukoscius is the best player without a doubt. Big risk not taking him if he clearly is number 1. Take the best available with your high end picks especially on a rebuild.

I look at it like this. If we could have another Petrevski-Seton or Charlie Curnow on our list who would you take?

When was the last time we scored 100 points in a game? I know you need the supply from the midfield but we still need another quality forward. I wouldn't be relying on Kerr and the Silvagni boys to be the solution. TDK will be more of a ruckman than a kpf.

Having said all that and Rankine or Walsh overtake Lukoscius in the best available player then i would recruit them.
The way our mids deliver it. Wouldn't matter if we had Lockett Dunstall and Ablett in our forward line..
 

rog1995

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Our primary focus should be to bring in a Miles and Wallis types to get sone experienced bodies in the middle. Draft Rankine or Walsh plus FS Hickmott. That's a much better balance already..
 

rog1995

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No it's not. On the contrary, the idiots should never have abolished it to the point where you need to absolutely suck for 3+ years to even warrant a discussion about it.
This and then they introduce free agency after we happen to get Judd. If that happened now we would have Judd and Never would've given up Kennedy. Add to the fact the past 6 years of compromised drafts due to the expansion clubs.
Once we start improving wouldn't surprise me if the afl bring back priority first round picks.
 

Arr0w

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We haven't scored 100 points because we don't have enough mids chipping in and kicking goals. We also don't have any good small or medium forwards that apply forward tackling pressure. Wright is way too hot and cold. Jack has gone backwards this year, Garlett not up to it and Pickett injured. Lamb I often forget he's even playing most of the time.

As for recruiters all saying Lukosius is the best player, I doubt that is actually the case.
:D
 

Iamcarlton

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Quick rebuilds? This year will be our 4th consecutive low finish.
We deserve/need a PP we definitely qualify.

The AFL already gave Brisbane pick 19 recently and helped GC get pick 19 in the Ablett trade which was overs.
It's our turn.

Put away the pride, it will help improve our list and help us ascend the ladder quicker.
I think your right re put away the pride but for me a different reason .
Im against priority picks for us normally because weve put ourselves in this mess .
But since the stains on the competition * were given a number 1 pick for systematically cheating the competition i say go for it .
Whats the saying again "whatever it takes" to give us a small leg up on our journey up the ladder .
If we continue on our current path this year and end up with say 2 wins lets see what the corrupt campaigners at AFL house have to say and how theyl justify not giving us one .
 
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The classic case of best available player vs clubs biggest need

Much like most in this thread i chop and change regularly between Walsh and Lukosius

However i think we could easily play Mckay, Curnow and Lukosius. He is a 196 kpf/ Chb he is only a little taller than Jsos. However he is more mobile and has many more elite traits than sos and will be able to get around the ground much easier. All 3 extremely mobile. The only reason this doesnt work at the moment is our best small forward wont be back for 8 weeks

Tom dkoning is a ruckman first key forward second, also bsos gives a bit more versatility than Kerr and jsos who arent overly mobile

Im all for taking Walsh and will probably change my mind several times before the end of the year but i feel with our picks there is plenty of talented mids to take with our second round picks/ priority pick/ any wheeling and dealing sos does for more picks
 

TheHeatleyStand

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Great analogy, but don't let pride get in the way of letting others do shit for you. Especially if those laces were soaked in urine from the grubby floor in the school toilet and you just didn't want to touch them!

why must we have a priority pick?
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Carl

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The way our mids deliver it. Wouldn't matter if we had Lockett Dunstall and Ablett in our forward line..
So if we had a forward who knows where to lead wouldn't make it easier for our midfielders to deliver the ball? Locket played in a shit team at St.Kilda and still kicked 100 goals a year. Think about it. The good players know where to lead and position themselves to make it easier to get the ball.
 
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