List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread II

[CJMB]

Williamson should be cheap

Depending on his 'injury discount, he might be worth a look if he plays every week and takes a chunk of the kick ins. Although that's on the assumption that any kind of movement outside the square is seen as playing on therefor the following kick/disposal is registered as a stat.

Would think Setterfield is probably better value, last valued at $197k so might drop to the $140k mark considering he didn't play last year?

Newman might be an ok value pick depending on his role and if he's definitely secure in the best 22.

Might as well lock Doc in now.

 

[Funk]

Or both Saints and us, see the Crows not improving?

I did love it when one of the Saints guys said words to the effect "we need to swap picks with a club that thinks they'll do better than they actually will".

Colleague immediately said "Adelaide" - I laughed!!!!!

 

[HARKER]

I just watched that video and it seems as if Stkilda had not done any prep landing on live trading,it was as if they were making up as they went along.

The power of planning can’t be under estimated.

No it can't but even though we may have been better prepared, the left hand wasn't always doing what the right hand hand wanted it to do.
SOS and Agresta weren't exactly in perfect harmony, but they'll learn as they go along. You really have to be in sync and complementary to one another.
I guess it all seems somewhat straight-forward from here and likely a little tougher when the heat is on, but just the same.....it wasn't perfect.

Still gets me about Bolton asking what number Stocker was.
For some reason I can't take that seriously given the discussions about Stocker had ben going on for some time....It's not as though Bolton had book launches to tend to. Surely he would have known the 'look' of the player SOS and co were targeting on the night. He had to have known what that player looks like. I did and I'm nowhere near the club.

 

[Blue__Balls]

No it can't but even though we may have been more prepared the left hand wasn't always doing what the right hand hand wanted it to do.
SOS and Agresta weren't exactly in perfect harmony, but they'll both learn as they go along.
I guess it all seems somewhat straight-forward from here and likely a little tougher when the heat is on, but just the same.....it wasn't perfect.

Still gets me about Bolton asking what number Stocker was.
For some reason I can't take that seriously given the discussions about Stocker had ben going on for some time....It's not as though Bolton had book launches to tend to. Surely he would have known the 'look' of the player SOS and co were targeting on the night. He had to have known what that player looks like. I did and I'm nowhere near the club.

Not with you on that, Harks - surely when presented with highlights footage, a quick "Which number is he" gives Bolton confirmation on which player he's supposed to be tracking. May have also been for the benefit of anyone else watching (ie. Judd, Liddle, Lloyd etc.) who hadn't been trawling through draftee match footage.

I also don't think we were "targeting" Stocker ahead of draft night. He was in our top half dozen, and when he slipped past 12 we started to get proactive by following up one some preliminary trade discussions that would have been had to cover the eventuality of any sliders. Can't imagine Bolton would spend much time watching junior footage and getting himself excited about players that may never land at the club.

 

[gardiner stand]

No it can't but even though we may have been better prepared, the left hand wasn't always doing what the right hand hand wanted it to do.
SOS and Agresta weren't exactly in perfect harmony, but they'll learn as they go along. You really have to be in sync and complementary to one another.
I guess it all seems somewhat straight-forward from here and likely a little tougher when the heat is on, but just the same.....it wasn't perfect.

Still gets me about Bolton asking what number Stocker was.
For some reason I can't take that seriously given the discussions about Stocker had ben going on for some time....It's not as though Bolton had book launches to tend to. Surely he would have known the 'look' of the player SOS and co were targeting on the night. He had to have known what that player looks like. I did and I'm nowhere near the club.

I think we underestimate how little input the coaches have in recruiting these days. Didn’t Buckley go overseas shortly after the GF? Things are less and less micro managed these days in all areas.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

I like to look at it as we also drafted Setterfield. Ok it was a trade technically but to all intents and purposes....Great stuff all round.

I recall reading or hearing somewhere that we had him ranked #1 in the 2016 draft...of course we made a bid for him at pick 5 but matched by GWS.

If this is indeed correct, we've effectively got two #1 draft picks and a #6 pick (by Carlton's rankings) in a single year....and still retain a first round pick in 2019!!

 

[HARKER]

I think we underestimate how little input the coaches have in recruiting these days. Didn’t Buckley go overseas shortly after the GF? Things are less and less micro managed these days in all areas.

I agree that they shouldn't be hands on but interested? Surely Bolton was interested.
I couldn't be restrained from knowing what my recruiters have in mind and I think Bolton well knew.
Just can't buy it that he only became aware of Stocker on the night of the draft.

Not with you on that, Harks - surely when presented with highlights footage, a quick "Which number is he" gives Bolton confirmation on which player he's supposed to be tracking. May have also been for the benefit of anyone else watching (ie. Judd, Liddle, Lloyd etc.) who hadn't been trawling through draftee match footage.
I also don't think we were "targeting" Stocker ahead of draft night. He was in our top half dozen, and when he slipped past 12 we started to get proactive by following up one some preliminary trade discussions that would have been had to cover the eventuality of any sliders. Can't imagine Bolton would spend much time watching junior footage and getting himself excited about players that may never land at the club.

Clearly we had and were well aware that someone we rated at #6 was more likely to be heading off at around #12 and after.
We had our chat with GC but they weren't buying any of it and the one that obviously made sense for us was Stocker in terms of the bigger picture and we had contacted Port & Adelaide the days leading into the draft. This is clear.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I agree that they shouldn't be hands on but interested? Surely Bolton was interested.
I couldn't be restrained from knowing what my recruiters have in mind and I think Bolton well knew.
Just can't buy it that he only became aware of Stocker on the night of the draft.



Clearly we had and were well aware that someone we rated at #6 was more likely to be heading off at around #12 and after.
We had our chat with GC but they weren't buying any of it and the one that obviously made sense for us was Stocker in terms of the bigger picture and we had contacted Port & Adelaide the days leading into the draft. This is clear.

Just because we were interested and thought he might slide, doesn't mean the coach would have been told "Hey, we like this kid, go and watch all the footage." Especially given we didn't have any picks between 1 and 60+ anyway. Bolton probably would have been aware of Stocker at a surface level, probably enough to know he's a midfielder and in the frame for the first round.

Maybe more than that, but not necessarily.

Depends whether he likes watching junior footy in his spare time, or if he prefers to spend that watching senior games that are more relevant to his role. I'd be more inclined to believe he'd be trawling through the 2018 season and taking copious notes about what we did well and otherwise, and what the more successful sides did well.

 

[smashbox gill]

The newest draft vid featuring GC show them being well informed and have researched prior to the draft. It looks like they have turned the corner with the new team.

St Kilda were a rabble compared to us and GC.

Must say we looked the most professional and detailed with SOS at the helm

 

[slashin_velvet]

The newest draft vid featuring GC show them being well informed and have researched prior to the draft. It looks like they have turned the corner with the new team.

St Kilda were a rabble compared to us and GC.

Must say we looked the most professional and detailed with SOS at the helm

GWS were very impressive - particularly their assumed knowledge of who other clubs would take at which pick - they called out a few surprises in their room before they happened (Adelaide taking Chase Jones was a surprise on the night) - http://www.gwsgiants.com.au/video/2018-11-26/inside-the-giants-the-draft

 

[Number 10 is cursed]

I hope they make one of these videos for the Crows as it would be good to see the flip side to the Blues and Saints dealings.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Carlton: had one objective and stuck at it doggedly.
Gold Coast: played the field, got torpedoed by our trade with Adelaide, bit the bullet and secured the player they rated highly.
GWS: identified the players they wanted and traded into the picks they'd need before the draft, knew which players were going where and nailed every selection they forecast.
St Kilda: hnnnghghg

 

[thylacine60]

not sure we have yet reached the pantheon of trading greats to be snarking at other clubs........

 

[Blue__Balls]

not sure we have yet reached the pantheon of trading greats to be snarking at other clubs........

St Kilda though...

 

[thylacine60]

hear that

 

[Cripps Nubake]

 

[THE_GUN]

From a outsider's view with no Bias to any of the 4 clubs who's footage has been up so far

GWS - The post professional and well prepared with knowing what they want,Who others will take and whats required for them to meet their hits

GC - Again very good and knew what they had and who they wanted,Blindsided by Car/Crows trade as they thought the crows would bid on the GWS Ruckman but whe the #19 trade happened were ready to deal out a pick to get their player and were decisive with their call

Carl - Clearly Reid & Sos have been talking prior to the draft about swapping Carlton/Crows 2019 pick,Not sure if Stocker was the 'Only'player that this would have been done for as it seems the trade was just about agreed upon before hand

Saints - Didnt look good at all , Just looked like they were trying to trade for the sake of trading and wanting to be proactive
They did look very loose during that attempt to get crows pick

 

[Cripptonite]

From a outsider's view with no Bias to any of the 4 clubs who's footage has been up so far

GWS - The post professional and well prepared with knowing what they want,Who others will take and whats required for them to meet their hits

GC - Again very good and knew what they had and who they wanted,Blindsided by Car/Crows trade as they thought the crows would bid on the GWS Ruckman but whe the #19 trade happened were ready to deal out a pick to get their player and were decisive with their call

Carl - Clearly Reid & Sos have been talking prior to the draft about swapping Carlton/Crows 2019 pick,Not sure if Stocker was the 'Only'player that this would have been done for as it seems the trade was just about agreed upon before hand

Saints - Didnt look good at all , Just looked like they were trying to trade for the sake of trading and wanting to be proactive
They did look very loose during that attempt to get crows pick

Agree with most of this. To me it seemed that us and GWS did their homework and went to the draft with a plan, both executed well and achieved their goals. Whether or not the right calls were made, time will tell.

GC had a plan and that was thrown out the window due to the Sydney/WCE dodgy trades along with Adelaide's non-bid for Briggs (both out of their control). As a result they had a quick discussion and adapted their plan which meant overpaying with the trade, but they got their man which is the important thing. Would be interesting to see whether they would have done the same trade if they knew they would get Valente and somebody else.

STK seemed like they had no plan going into the draft and just made up their approach on the spot. I don't have any issue with their logic behind their attempts to trade back in, but their execution was extremely poor. If they had planned for it in advance they would have had a much better chance of getting a deal done to get Caldwell or RCD. Their approach was just throw it out there and see what sticks. Not only that, it seemed like there were issues in regards to who was providing input and who was making final decisions. Everyone seemed to be on a slightly different page and there was no real conviction in any internal discussions or external trade negotiations.

 

[Eiffel 65]

From a outsider's view with no Bias to any of the 4 clubs who's footage has been up so far

GWS - The post professional and well prepared with knowing what they want,Who others will take and whats required for them to meet their hits

GC - Again very good and knew what they had and who they wanted,Blindsided by Car/Crows trade as they thought the crows would bid on the GWS Ruckman but whe the #19 trade happened were ready to deal out a pick to get their player and were decisive with their call

Carl - Clearly Reid & Sos have been talking prior to the draft about swapping Carlton/Crows 2019 pick,Not sure if Stocker was the 'Only'player that this would have been done for as it seems the trade was just about agreed upon before hand

Saints - Didnt look good at all , Just looked like they were trying to trade for the sake of trading and wanting to be proactive
They did look very loose during that attempt to get crows pick

I reckon they've publicly said we rated Stocker at 6 because internally we're aiming to finish between 12th to 14th.

From a PR perspective, if we finish 13th, the club can make a strong case to say we've effectively received Adelaide's 2019 first rounder for nothing.

Whether other clubs view that as being the case is another story altogether.

 

[THE_GUN]

I reckon they've publicly said we rated Stocker at 6 because internally we're aiming to finish between 12th to 14th.

From a PR perspective, if we finish 13th, the club can make a strong case to say we've effectively received Adelaide's 2019 first rounder for nothing.

Whether other clubs view that as being the case is another story altogether.

Dont think its for nothing , I did a quick ladder prediction last night (not with scores just wins and had Carlton 16th Crows 6th
Richmond,Melbourne,West Coast,GWS,Essendon,Crows
So thats pretty much a 10 spot upgrade.
#3 for #19+#13 (which could go out 2-3 spots for compo and academy etc) so #3 for #19+#16
On face value looking like blues payed overs but if Stocker indeed becomes the player you hope could be worth it if not the he another Boekhurst type trade.

Good luck hope you guys have a good year

 

[Eiffel 65]

Dont think its for nothing , I did a quick ladder prediction last night (not with scores just wins and had Carlton 16th Crows 6th
Richmond,Melbourne,West Coast,GWS,Essendon,Crows
So thats pretty much a 10 spot upgrade.
#3 for #19+#13 (which could go out 2-3 spots for compo and academy etc) so #3 for #19+#16
On face value looking like blues payed overs but if Stocker indeed becomes the player you hope could be worth it if not the he another Boekhurst type trade.

Good luck hope you guys have a good year

The point I was making was that if Adelaide finish say 5th on the ladder and Carlton finish 13th, the trade is essentially:

Carlton In: Pick 6 (2018) & Pick 14 (2019)
Carlton Out: Pick 6 (2019)

Remember the trade was done live on draft night. The trade wasn't for pick 19. The trade was for Liam Stocker.

If Carlton rated Stocker at pick 6 (6th best player in the draft), they didn't trade for pick 19, they technically traded for the value of pick 6 in the 2018 draft.

There's a big difference between doing a trade live on draft night at the pick and prior to the draft.

When the trade is done live, you know exactly who is available and where you rate them. That's why lower ranked picks can have higher values with live trading.

 

[Robertio]

Dont think its for nothing , I did a quick ladder prediction last night (not with scores just wins and had Carlton 16th Crows 6th
Richmond,Melbourne,West Coast,GWS,Essendon,Crows
So thats pretty much a 10 spot upgrade.
#3 for #19+#13 (which could go out 2-3 spots for compo and academy etc) so #3 for #19+#16
On face value looking like blues payed overs but if Stocker indeed becomes the player you hope could be worth it if not the he another Boekhurst type trade.

Good luck hope you guys have a good year

Also you could add in the player Crows and Blues pick with there first round picks next year. Lot of ifs and buts in this trade that will keep us interested for a few years yet.

 

[footyfan1978]

More please AFL. SOS really rates Max King and rightly so. Most important player Saints drafted since Nick Roo.
Shows the quality of this draft where pick 4 in another year would easily be a pick 1 type.

Gold Coast recruiters amuse me. Funny couple where guy does not remember what he said two days ago.

Sainters look a rabble...lol..

 

[footyfan1978]

The Gun as much a rabble as Sainters. A real try hard. Just weird blanks fired.

 

[footyfan1978]

I did love it when one of the Saints guys said words to the effect "we need to swap picks with a club that thinks they'll do better than they actually will".

Colleague immediately said "Adelaide" - I laughed!!!!!

Did amuse and very true. Walker unreliable with body. Jenkins unreliable with mind. Jacobs and Betts you get the feel playing out their contracts and trying to still do well but not in love with admin. Past their peak for sure. Peaked two years ago when had Lever and Cameron. Could end up anywhere from 5th to 14th imo.. Middle of ladder where I expect most.