List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread II

[Blutopia]

Yes. I don't know how bad they are but his home life growing up was a train wreck.

But Peter Sumich says he's the best player in WA this year.

Unless he's a worse than 50/ 50 to go off the rails surely worth a rookie spot.

Our club has built a good culture by bringing in quality players with the right attitude. It’s not worth risking bringing in a player that could be toxic, no matter how talented he is. I admit it’s very tempting but just not worth him potentially dragging any other younger players into off field trouble.

 

[gandaal]

Reckon we already found them. In the national draft.

As per what Soapy V said - we use the rookie draft (or late ND picks) to get needs-based mature age players in. It's a reasonable strategy when you are otherwise just bringing in players 24 or under for three straight years and delisting anyone older than that who isn't 100% part of the future.

It's a questionable strategy when the results have been poor.

I think surrounding our youngsters with players who have found to be clearly deficient puts unnecessary pressure on their shoulders.

I'd much rather target recently retired or near retirement players who want to segway into coaching, and mature state league players who deserve a shot at a higher level.

 

[Arr0w]

It can change but I’ve seen enough of both. Macreadie is much better by foot and above average in the air ,he is also super courageous. I’m positive he’ll cone good with the right development.

I agree with you , I see him as a Westoff, Blicavs type, but I always want options and choices

 

[Blubagger71]

2019.

Late picks and the rookie draft continue to be disappointing. It's the one area that hasn't improved at all since SOS took over. I think we make some questionable drafting choices year after year. We try too hard to search for a hidden superstar, or try to extract value from the recently delisted in the mistaken belief that our development team is better than those at other clubs.

Hopefully I'm proven wrong.

I don’t know why folks are having conniptions over Rookie selections. They are generally depth with some strong redemptive stories sprinkled amongst them. Not a lot to lose really and alternatives rarely present as genuinely stronger than the selection. Would Keiran Collins be significantly better than Goddard as one such example?
I haven’t ever been a fan of Bugg, I was at the game that resulted in his suspension and it looked terrible. A dog act from generations past. What he does offer is another potential redemptive story whereby he grabs the opportunity with both hands and runs. If not, he is shown the door next year and we try again. Meanwhile he will be a mature body at training and in NB and help to polish the young diamonds.
The selection of these two signal the future direction: we have enough kids, let’s add mature depth as Phase 2.

 

[ShanDog]

It can change but I’ve seen enough of both. Macreadie is much better by foot and above average in the air ,he is also super courageous. I’m positive he’ll cone good with the right development.

Yep, I've got no problem with Macreadie being given all the time in the world to get himself right. He's had some injuries and also strikes me as the kind of body type that takes a while to really fill out, but it will be worth it. We have lots of tall defenders. No pressure on the guy - just take your time, get your body right and then your form, and see where it goes.

 

[HARKER]

Completely disagree with the complaints about the rookie draft. Haven’t you seen our last 3-4 *actual* drafts? We have an incredibly young list and there are enough speculative types there already. We need some mature backups who can plug gaps and act as human shields for the younger, more talented guys.

Like we saw last year with a number of these low-ceiling but mature age battlers, they can play a role and at least insulate our youth from being thrown to the wolves too savagely. The only sort of players we’d be taking in the rookie draft, instead of Goddard and Bugg, would likely just be less developed versions of Goddard and Bugg.

I expect in the coming years, as our list fills out, you’ll see plenty more flyers in later rounds/rookie draft. We just need a few of these mature types of players for insurance at the moment (even if it is bloody boring).

I had this discussion with you not so long ago TheRedPill when you were shielding the recruiting of Mullett, Shaw and O'Shea.
How did that work out and where were the end benefits? Let me tell you; There were none....zero..... zilch.

May be different this time around as at least were addressing needs and we may get 'lucky' but it all seems just a little soft to me.

 

[Blubagger71]

We'll never find the next Eddie Betts or Sam Jacobs if we keep picking up these recycled hacks.

Get with the program, Bosty! Phase 1 rebuild through the draft. Enough shiny toys under the tree.
Phase 2 add mature talent and improve the off field. That’s underway.
Besides, I’m a fan of these selections to balance the list and fit the age profile requirements.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Interesting that we seem to draft players from the same systems.

Stocker and Polson were at Haileybury.
ODwyer and Silvagni were at Xavier
Dow, O'Brien and Schumacher all Bendigo pioneers. (With the first two both at Geelong grammar)

Do we have a wide enough network of scouts? Is Silvagni watching a lot of aps school footy because of his kids and trying to find gems there?

 

[ShanDog]

It's a questionable strategy when the results have been poor.

I think surrounding our youngsters with players who have found to be clearly deficient puts unnecessary pressure on their shoulders.

I'd much rather target recently retired or near retirement players who want to segway into coaching, and mature state league players who deserve a shot at a higher level.

Have the results been poor though? In an ideal world, most of those people we picked up would have spent most of their time in the NBs, playing only when we needed youngsters to rest. But last year in parricular was shit for injuries. They were never meant for the long term. Off the top of my head I reckon maybe Smedts is one we took a punt on as a possible long term player, and Garlett right now. Smedts didn't work, but the rest did their part and have since been moved on. The alternative is to have either c-grade senior players with inflated salaries making up the numbers or a team choc full of 18-21 year old players with a substantial number as speculative rookies. I think that's the least sustainable of the strategies.

 

[ShanDog]

I had this discussion with you not so long ago TheRedPill when you were shielding the recruiting of Mullett, Shaw and O'Shea.
How did that work out and where were the end benefits? Let me tell you; There were none....zero..... zilch.

May be different this time around as at least were addressing needs and we may get 'lucky' but it all seems just a little soft to me.

They were all "break glass in case of emergency" players. And last year was a season-long emergency.

 

[Soapy V]

It's a questionable strategy when the results have been poor.

I think surrounding our youngsters with players who have found to be clearly deficient puts unnecessary pressure on their shoulders.

I'd much rather target recently retired or near retirement players who want to segway into coaching, and mature state league players who deserve a shot at a higher level.

We've got Thomas Murphy Simpson Lobbe as the 30 plus players
We have brought in McGovern Fasolo Bugg Newman in the 24-29 range
Our other additions are 22 and under. Goddard Setterfield Walsh Stocker O'Dwyer BSOS

This is all on top of a young list. We have 29 players under 23. We didn't delist any of our young talent this year. It was all older players.

I think the balance is right

 

[HARKER]

They were all "break glass in case of emergency" players. And last year was a season-long emergency.

No they weren't. The emergency was afoot but we chose not to break the glass, as it would have been futile.

 

[gandaal]

Have the results been poor though? In an ideal world, most of those people we picked up would have spent most of their time in the NBs, playing only when we needed youngsters to rest. But last year in parricular was shit for injuries. They were never meant for the long term. Off the top of my head I reckon maybe Smedts is one we took a punt on as a possible long term player, and Garlett right now. Smedts didn't work, but the rest did their part and have since been moved on. The alternative is to have either c-grade senior players with inflated salaries making up the numbers or a team choc full of 18-21 year old players with a substantial number as speculative rookies. I think that's the least sustainable of the strategies.

Yes. The results have been terrible. Only Lobbe would get a tick from me.

And if they're only for the short term why target 23 year olds when we could target proven 30 year olds who are 10 times better?

 

[Blubagger71]

Anyone else noticed (Aph) that we have drafted some good looking roosters in recent times. Even if the football is bad, at least the memorabilia’s top shelf. Finbar as a possible exception... Sorry young fella!

 

[murphster]

Nope I’m wrong forgot Owies that’s 41 senior and 4 rookies. Full House.

Nope wrong again dickhead, 1 spot left for the SSP period, interesting to see what we do, mature age state league Jye Bolton, Marlion Pickett etc or Sam Fisher or Blakey or maybe we have someone else in mind Tyron Smallwood I think we can take him now he’s been passed over in drafts, who the fruck knows my head hurts after last few weeks. Wake me when JLT starts.

 

[gardiner stand]

Shame there wasn’t a young project ruckman to rookie

 

[HARKER]

Nope wrong again dickhead, 1 spot left for the SSP period, interesting to see what we do, mature age state league Jye Bolton, Marlion Pickett etc or Sam Fisher or Blakey or maybe we have someone else in mind Tyron Smallwood I think we can take him now he’s been passed over in drafts, who the fruck knows my head hurts after last few weeks. Wake me when JLT starts.

Don't talk to him like that!

 

[murphster]

Anyone else think Stocker looks a bit like Crippa in the face, talks well like him too. The Crippler and The Stockman the Blue Bulls, beware opposition midfields carnage is a comin.

 

[murphster]

Don't talk to him like that!

Just calling it as I sees it

 

[gandaal]

They were all "break glass in case of emergency" players. And last year was a season-long emergency.

Mullet and Garlett played round 1.

 

[Soapy V]

Shame there wasn’t a young project ruckman to rookie

Why? Don't need one

We have Kruezer (29) Lobbe (29) Phillips (27) & TDK (19) supported by Casboult & McKay. Another would be overkill and a waste of a spot. Need will be to be to chase a quality ruck in the next year or 2.

 

[ShanDog]

Mullet and Garlett played round 1.

Yeah Garlett I said is likely a player we see as fighting for long term career. You can argue that perhaps Mullett was too, but I think him playing had a lot more to do with Docherty going down.

 

[ShanDog]

Yes. The results have been terrible. Only Lobbe would get a tick from me.

And if they're only for the short term why target 23 year olds when we could target proven 30 year olds who are 10 times better?

Who were the proven 30 year old players we could have picked up with the same picks, and that wanted to play with us?

 

[ShanDog]

No they weren't. The emergency was afoot but we chose not to break the glass, as it would have been futile.

What do you mean? When there was nobody else, guys like O'Shea and Shaw played. That's what I'm referring to. At one point last season we had 3-4 players in the NBs, injuries were that bad.

 

[murphster]

Who were the proven 30 year old players we could have picked up with the same picks, and that wanted to play with us?

Please don’t say Brendon Goddard