List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread II

[katmanblue]

I said before the draft that if Carlton selected Walsh with pick 1, he would basically give us a low mark.
Like me in many ways, he really rates Lukosius.

The Stocker trade if I am being honest, really concerns me as well, there is a lot of potential to have egg on our face. It is certainly a case of backing ourselves in.
So many variables in the Stocker trade when deciding to make the trade.

1. Carlton finishing position - If it is bottom 3 next year, that is a high end talent we're missing out on.
2. Adelaides finishing position - If they bounce back, then our pick becomes more speculative.
3. Stocker + ? v ? We will always compare this trade in the future based on who Carlton and Adelaide select. If it was somehow possible (it is not), I would love to know who Adelaide and Carlton would have selected if they still owned each pick. Then you get a true value of the trade.

Egg is a good source of protein. It also washes off. Doesn't matter how it looks as long as Stocker is a player.

Even if he isn't any good (touch wood) the issue is talent identification rather than the trade itself.

We may have another terrible year, but we have done everything possible to avoid that.

Now if the coach isn't up to it or if we cop lots of injuries again, nothing the recruiting team could do would stop that.

It was a calculated risk. And probably the right time to take it.

Early enough, that if it comes off we have time to build on it (develop Stocker) for a year before we rise significantly. And if it doesn't come of we have traded and early first for two late firsts (worse case). It's not great but not that bad either.

Edit: I forgot to mention that most of us have Carlton trading out our 1st in 2019 anyway.

What does it matter if it's pick 3 or 14? We still won't be drafting with it. The only difference would be if we get a 2nd or 3rd back when packaged with our 2020 1st.

If you take the Shiel trade as a guideline, then if it's a late 1st in 2019, perhaps we don't get the 2nd back.

If we are getting Kelly or Taranto, who cares? It might end up being 2019 1st and 2020 1st for Stocker and Kelly.

Is that a win?

Once again, how it looks to the wider footy community is irrelevant.

 

[katmanblue]

So Knightmare gave our draft a D and ranked us dead last.

He disagreed with Walsh at 1, the trade to get Stocker, BSOS, Goddard and Bugg. Seemed nonplussed on Finbar.

Bless ...

I doubt he's giving the d to anyone irl. Gotta get his rocks off somehow.

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[SkyhorseTamer]

I said before the draft that if Carlton selected Walsh with pick 1, he would basically give us a low mark.
Like me in many ways, he really rates Lukosius.

The Stocker trade if I am being honest, really concerns me as well, there is a lot of potential to have egg on our face. It is certainly a case of backing ourselves in.
So many variables in the Stocker trade when deciding to make the trade.

1. Carlton finishing position - If it is bottom 3 next year, that is a high end talent we're missing out on.
2. Adelaides finishing position - If they bounce back, then our pick becomes more speculative.
3. Stocker + ? v ? We will always compare this trade in the future based on who Carlton and Adelaide select. If it was somehow possible (it is not), I would love to know who Adelaide and Carlton would have selected if they still owned each pick. Then you get a true value of the trade.

Your 3 components to judging the trade are all incomplete and are certainly not fails or near fails - yet. So even being pessimistic it is still far too early for ‘D’ ratings to be thrown about.

 

[9874123]

Watch us get Caldwell in two years.

Blues fan. Giants player (for now)

Great mates with Dow/Walsh/LOB/Schumacher

Murphy was apparently consoling him on the bench during a junior footy match this year when he did his hammy again.

MOST IMPORTANTLY - Matt Bain is his manager...

Caldwell is a saints supporter, but the Dow/LOB factor is definitely there, as they all went to school together

 

[murphster]

They made mention that they were friends at the time he was drafted. I just assumed that they were from the same school.

As for Finbar, you call BS that it's the worst I've seen? How would you know that? I saw it and I thought it was poor. If they couldn't find good footage of him then just don't bother. Sending out a video where he fumbles, gets beaten in contests and just shanksthe ball forward isn't helping anyone.

He got injured and didn't play much footy in front of a camera. That's fine. We don't need a video that tries to find highlights from a poor game or two.

Played together at Chargers so close enough.

 

[murphster]

Egg is a good source of protein. It also washes off. Doesn't matter how it looks as long as Stocker is a player.

Even if he isn't any good (touch wood) the issue is talent identification rather than the trade itself.

We may have another terrible year, but we have done everything possible to avoid that.

Now if the coach isn't up to it or if we cop lots of injuries again, nothing the recruiting team could do would stop that.

It was a calculated risk. And probably the right time to take it.

Early enough, that if it comes off we have time to build on it (develop Stocker) for a year before we rise significantly. And if it doesn't come of we have traded and early first for two late firsts (worse case). It's not great but not that bad either.

Edit: I forgot to mention that most of us have Carlton trading out our 1st in 2019 anyway.

What does it matter if it's pick 3 or 14? We still won't be drafting with it. The only difference would be if we get a 2nd or 3rd back when packaged with our 2020 1st.

If you take the Shiel trade as a guideline, then if it's a late 1st in 2019, perhaps we don't get the 2nd back.

If we are getting Kelly or Taranto, who cares? It might end up being 2019 1st and 2020 1st for Stocker and Kelly.

Is that a win?

Once again, how it looks to the wider footy community is irrelevant.

That’s it in a nut shell, the vast majority of us blue baggers are very happy with trade so everyone else can go take a running jump.

 

[The Fantom]

So Knightmare gave our draft a D and ranked us dead last.

He disagreed with Walsh at 1, the trade to get Stocker, BSOS, Goddard and Bugg. Seemed nonplussed on Finbar.

Bless ...

Isn’t he a Collingwood supporter? Would like to go back and see where he rated Cripps and Fyfe... I’d give Collingwood and F for grand final appearances but what do I know?

 

[murphster]

Knightmares Power Rankings 8/10/18

13. Liam Stocker (VIC)
Best position: Inside midfield
Height, weight: 183cm, 83kg
Recruited from: Sandringham Dragons
Projected draft range: 5-20
Similar to: David Armitage
Rationale: Despite missing the Under-18 Championships due to a broken jaw, Stocker has quietly been playing a consistent brand of football for Sandringham and has been one of the stoppage stars of the TAC Cup. Drops as others rise.
September Ranking: 12
Strengths:
Stoppage work
Contested ball-winning
Reacts quickest to 50/50 balls
Tackling
Distribution by hand in heavy traffic
Strength to shrug tackles
Endurance
Work rate
Agility
Acceleration over the first 10m
Clean skills
Kicking to targets inside 50m
Weaknesses:
No clear second position
Outside accumulation

Had him 1 spot ahead of Caldwell the tosser.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Who or WTF is Knightmare anyway.

 

[Jimmae]

Knightmares Power Rankings 8/10/18

13. Liam Stocker (VIC)
Best position: Inside midfield
Height, weight: 183cm, 83kg
Recruited from: Sandringham Dragons
Projected draft range: 5-20
Similar to: David Armitage
Rationale: Despite missing the Under-18 Championships due to a broken jaw, Stocker has quietly been playing a consistent brand of football for Sandringham and has been one of the stoppage stars of the TAC Cup. Drops as others rise.
September Ranking: 12
Strengths:
Stoppage work
Contested ball-winning
Reacts quickest to 50/50 balls
Tackling
Distribution by hand in heavy traffic
Strength to shrug tackles
Endurance
Work rate
Agility
Acceleration over the first 10m
Clean skills
Kicking to targets inside 50m
Weaknesses:
No clear second position
Outside accumulation

Had him 1 spot ahead of Caldwell the tosser.

He went big on RCD and Caldwell in the final month.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Who or WTF is Knightmare anyway.

I know he lives on Elm St....

 

[Blueyourmyboy!!]

I think we reached. Should have been pick 68 earliest. Must really want him.

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I don't much about this finbar kid but I think we missed a real opportunity letting jake Tarca a small fwd go right by us to the cats

 

[AndyLucimitis]

He went big on RCD and Caldwell in the final month.

Yeh. Once he knew the final draft positions !!


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[PrinceCharles]

The critics have their opinion that we should have picked Rankine and RDC but they miss the point, that Carlton picked for need and that was mids, especially those that can hit up a forward(Stocker). This is driven by our requirement to move up the ladder now. Our admin and coaching staff will not last winning 5 games a season Rankine receiving no supply in the forward line or RDC developing in the seconds, is not going to get us the there quick enough.

Looks like you've missed the point, to me.

 

[djw1952]

I don't much about this finbar kid but I think we missed a real opportunity letting jake Tarca a small fwd go right by us to the cats

Yeah he looked good in his highlights package, but there was someone else I think we missed on as well...........at pick 63 the haws traded up to get the maggies pick (before ours) because they must have known that SOS wanted Mathew Walker (Andrew Walkers`cousin I heard) at our pick 64 because Carlton then went back 2 spots and got the O`Dwyer kid at 66. I only heard Cal Twomey say last week that we were interested in him (Walker) and Matt Balmer also said that Carlton had put a lot of time into a country kid with one of their later picks, and with BSOS going with the other pick it had to be Walker before him. In his highlights package I thought he had some Hodge traits about him with his hardness at the ball and also looked very good overhead, and the Haws must have thought the same and pinched him............no offence to O`Dwyer, but why did SOS and co go back 2 spots in the draft after that because it almost felt like the kid was "plan B" and they just tossed it in............I really hope Finbar makes it at Carlton but just how much did they want him?...........just my reading of it that`s all...........

 

[Nori]

I tend to agree it wasn't a particularly strong package, but having said that we are desperate for a pressure forward and the positive aspects of O'Dwyer's game are exactly what we are looking for, namely: speed, tackling pressure and goal sense, which he showed at various points.

It's also just a highlights package. The recruiting team would have seen far more footy than that 90 second video, and it's not just what players do when they've got the ball, they'd be looking very closely at his defensive nous and effort, which is a lot of what he'd be judged on.

I'm kind of indifferent to the selection overall, however it's a very late pick which are always speculative.

I read somewhere that they liked how he frequently he got himself into attacking positions, but apparently often he wasn't rewarded with the ball.

Hard to capture that in a highlights package.

 

[windows1]

This is the thing I'm leading to; You cannot afford to be 'hopeful' and then for not being confident, double-up on the same types. You have to be sure.

We do not have a system devoid of player limits and without a salary cap. You have to be very clear in what you're doing and the blend of types you're bringing into the club. You can't put all your resources into one end of the ground and ignore the other, one type of player and not the other.
I know, I know. SOS knows more than me and is he's considered all this. Sure, they've likely covered all the bases and have all the answers, but we can only comment on what we see and not on what we don't see.

The big trick may yet be unmasked next year and the applause will duly arrive.
In my case, I was very happy with the trade period even though we didn't get Shiel and if had have, would have we taken Stocker? I don't know, but those last few picks have just left me a little............so what.

Could have we done better? If nothing else, it's at least worthy of a little friendly chat.

It’s early Sunday morning and the synapses just aren’t firing right yet...

Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me?

Drafting players is like business development. There’s no such thing as ‘surety’ at this stage. The sample sizes aren’t there. Kennedy’s sample size isn’t much better. 31 largely injury affected games.

So as with bus dev - where 10 opportunities are followed to ‘make sure’ you get a few- in footy it’s smart to over recruit each position at least ever so slightly because probability says they won’t all make it.

 

[Arr0w]

Who or WTF is Knightmare anyway.

How they feel when losing Grand Finals

 

[The Bighouse]

Yeah he looked good in his highlights package, but there was someone else I think we missed on as well...........at pick 63 the haws traded up to get the maggies pick (before ours) because they must have known that SOS wanted Mathew Walker (Andrew Walkers`cousin I heard) at our pick 64 because Carlton then went back 2 spots and got the O`Dwyer kid at 66. I only heard Cal Twomey say last week that we were interested in him (Walker) and Matt Balmer also said that Carlton had put a lot of time into a country kid with one of their later picks, and with BSOS going with the other pick it had to be Walker before him. In his highlights package I thought he had some Hodge traits about him with his hardness at the ball and also looked very good overhead, and the Haws must have thought the same and pinched him............no offence to O`Dwyer, but why did SOS and co go back 2 spots in the draft after that because it almost felt like the kid was "plan B" and they just tossed it in............I really hope Finbar makes it at Carlton but just how much did they want him?...........just my reading of it that`s all...........

Would be interesting to know if he was on our radar, seems to have some tricks.

Think Balmer said Vic Country kid, which Walker was a GWS Academy choice with whom they chose not to match. He had us with Riley Bowman in his phantom with our late pick.

The late changes brought us back into the later rounds next year by adding a 4th & 5th that we’d lost in trades this year (I was hoping we’d get a 4th back with the Newman trade but we now have Adelaide’s 1st, 3rd & 5th rounders, STK’s 4th + our 3rd).

 

[VainGlorious]

Who or WTF is Knightmare anyway.

Originally I thought it was the horse of the kings guard.

I am now sure it is a dyslexic bad dream.

Need coffee

 

[HARKER]

It’s early Sunday morning and the synapses just aren’t firing right yet...
Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me?
Drafting players is like business development. There’s no such thing as ‘surety’ at this stage. The sample sizes aren’t there. Kennedy’s sample size isn’t much better. 31 largely injury affected games.

So as with bus dev - where 10 opportunities are followed to ‘make sure’ you get a few- in footy it’s smart to over recruit each position at least ever so slightly because probability says they won’t all make it.

There has to be though, other than for possible injuries.

You don't draft/recruit on a let's see what happens basis and then take another similar type in a 'break glass in emergency' situation
It's fine doing so with your later picks in the draft and rookie draft, but you don't (shouldn't) recruit for 'back-up status' nor draft premium talent just in case someone you've invested heavily in, doesn't work out.

McGovern to me was recruited on a clear 'needs' basis and an important piece for Boltons puzzle to make sense.
Setterfield is fine also as he's a real talent and can with confidence allow Cripps a little less midfield exposure than he's had to take on. (although I'm not sure Cripps will be happy being asked to do less )
Newman and Fasolo make sense also, even if we don't necessarily like the individual/s.

Walsh makes perfect sense to me, although he may make SPS's life a little more difficult.
Nothing against Stocker and I've just questioned whether we need him.
BSilvagni - We had to but is it in the best interests of the CFC? Maybe marketing wise but could have we done better?
Goddard? - I'd like to be proven wrong here but I just don't see it, although better than last years sewnio intake.
Bugg - I don't know but gut tells me it's OK.

 

[HBF]

don't think I've ever read a knightmare phantom - don't think I ever will..........

+1 for me.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Who or WTF is Knightmare anyway.

Some guy who once listed Tim Broomhead, Marley Williams, Ben Kennedy and Darcy Moore as entries in his top 20 under 22 side


... when they were all Collingwood players

 

[HBF]

Read it out of curiosity, written with contempt and hope of our failure. If it was in print it would deserve full exposure as lining the bottom of the birdcage.

I wouldn't even put it at the bottom of my birdcage (if I had one).

 

[The Bighouse]

Walsh makes perfect sense to me, although he may make SPS's life a little more difficult.
Nothing against Stocker and I've just questioned whether we need him.
BSilvagni - We had to but is it in the best interests of the CFC? Maybe marketing wise but could have we done better?
Goddard? - I'd like to be proven wrong here but I just don't see it, although better than last years sewnio intake.
Bugg - I don't know but gut tells me it's OK.

Can Walsh play HFF as well? Decent kick? Hopefully that gives us 3 rotations with SPS/Stocker/Walsh off HFF while all 3 have clearance skills to throw into centre square mix.

I like the kicking on Stocker, we need elite kicks and SPS & him (LOB hopefully too when he adjusts) into the fwd50 makes life a lot easier for our leading forwards.

FOD is just the type of player we need as well to complement H, CC, Mitch; can mark at a rangey height, elite kick (IIRC being said) and pressure/tackle. Be interested to see his development if he’s AFL made & a very astute choice for a slow burn or just a Hail Mary late pick - hoping he’s in the Schumacher mold, build up in the VFL with potential for prospects year II, with off-field conditioning from skinny kid to AFL ready (another left footer too).