List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread II

[gandaal]

There seems to be a bit of annoyance around our pick #66 and later players.

Can I just ask, what you were expecting out of those late picks?

Buku Khamus, Sydney Stack, Jye Bolton, Mitch Grigg, Marlion Pickett, Michael Gibbons, Callum Wilkie, Jonathan Marsh, Fraser Thurlow...

 

[Nori]

Stocker looks like a real strong player from his highlights. Looks really good.

Carlton must rate him highly because the deal they have done could turn very ugly. Imagine if stocker struggles in the vfl next year, which is possible for a first year player, and Carlton finish bottom 5, and as many expect the crows play deep into finals.

Ultimately Carltons recruiters have rated Stocker higher than most other clubs. If they are wrong and Carlton finishes near the bottom next year the critics will come from far and wide.

I think we underestimate just how much of a gamble this is. Forget about points, how many people would trade a top 5 pick for 2 late first rounders. It’s all well and good to be positive but the downside must be always be acknowledged and there is plenty here.

It’s a very ballsy call.



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Ballsy, yes. But, you can’t really factor in the form of Stocker in his first year because a top five pick could easily go pear shaped as well.

Carlton’s spin on the trade was that it was a no brainer once Stocker started to slip into the teens. At worst they rated him at pick 10 but potentially it could have been 3-4 places higher than that.

So the trade’s middle ground would be a let’s say future pick 5 for a let’s say pick 8 and a future pick 13.

I’d do that in a heart beat, especially when you get to draft the player a year earlier.

 

[BlueTang]

I like the Stocker pick, but think of the price tag we had on the Walsh pick this year. It's a gamble on performance in 2019, so fingers crossed it works out in our favour and not the Crows.

I predict us finishing somewhere around 11 or 12 next year and Adelaide bottom of the 8, hopefully if that pans out we got an absolute steal

 

[Doro]

I predict ya finishing somewhere around 11 or 12 next year and Adelaide bottom of the 8, hopefully if that pans out we got an absolute steal

That would be a great result. Anything out of the bottom 3 and we've done ok, depending on the Crows as well of course.

 

[gandaal]

I think we have 34-35 guys on the list in line for the AFL team.

I think it’s impossible to see how any rookie gets anywhere near a game anyway.

After the year we just had you don't see the importance of quality depth?

 

[choo]

ESPN article. Nails it.
http://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/...phen-silvagni-trade-shows-blues-backing-build

 

[Cripptonite]

I've been busy the last few days but just now got a chance to reflect on our draft and check out more highlight videos as they have become more accessible.

1. Walsh- I was well and truly on the Rankine train over the last 18 months however you just have to be happy with this pick. The bloke has so much upside and really fills a need for us along with great determination and leadership. Plays so consistent and would be a certain number 1 in any other year so I'm more than happy.

19. Stocker- Who saw this coming? Probably not even SOS. I tuned out of the draft coverage after the first 11 picks but I kept checking the tracker to see where this guy would end up, thought there was an error on the screen when it said we got him. Absolutely stoked. The guy is a contested beast, clearance machine, very calm and polished with the ball and so hard at it which is great. He is more like a Selwood than the Walsh comparisons IMO. Easily one of the best mids in this draft, I would argue potentially better than Bailey Smith and Caldwell. Just what we need to help Crippa on the front lines and can play from round 1 IMO.

As for the trade itself, I can understand the criticism from clueless supporters of other teams and media propaganda, but I am a huge fan. SOS went to the US to study the way live picks impacted their sports and to pull of this one I am very impressed. Yes we potentially handed over a top 5 pick to the crows but Stocker is potentially worth that on his own considering this was a very strong draft and he is much better than pick 19. Not only that but we get a first rounder back from the Crows. Not to mention that there are still duds picked in the top 5 (no guarantees it will a star). People have to look at the big picture when analysing this trade. It's not just a numbers game, it's the people and talent you bring into the club. Media analysis is just based on numbers and draft picks are usually overrated. Not only this but it fits in with our strategy of chasing a big fish this year. It will be much easier to accept handing over 2 firsts to GWS for Kelly if it's pick 12 and our 2020 1st for example. We should also improve considerably considering the return of our injured stars, new recruits and Andrew Russell.

O'Dwyer & BSOS- Look like raw prospects. Not a lot given up and SOS has this inside scoop on both. Give them 2 years to prove themselves and reassess. At this stage of the draft everyone is taking a punt on speccy picks, better than carrying journeymen such as Rowe and Graham. We also added some late picks next year which may be handy.

Goddard & Bugg- I actually like this. Looks like the Rookie draft has transformed into a last chance saloon for all clubs. I believe there is some upside with both players here. We know that they are AFL talents and both fill areas where we are lacking depth and experience. Both Melbourne and Saint supporters where surprised these guys were delisted so that means they have shown something. I was very surprised that Goddard was let go as he had a good year after recovering from injury (mostly at Sandringham). Again better than Rowe and may be required in Plowman's absence at some stage. They come on a low salary and even if they end up no good like O'Shea and Mullett we can flick them at the end of the year. Free swing.

Happy camper over here! Let's hope for a big and injury-free preseason, then I think we will surpise a few in 2019. Go Blues!

 

[Soapy V]

After the year we just had you don't see the importance of quality depth?

IMO that's the biggest issue and I reckon we have addressed it as well as we could have hoped

 

[Nori]

The other thing I’d say about the Stocker trade is the media outlets pitch the worst case scenario and then say that this will seriously advantage Adelaide.

Well of couse it will! What possible motivation would there be for Adelaide to do the deal if it didn’t?

... but the best case scenario is massively in favour of Carlton.

 

[Blutopia]

i love that clip of agresta assessong the draft saying that doing the trade to get stocker was a "no brainer" , and i agree as well, we either get pick 10-18 from the crows , plenty of good players recruited on this bracket, or more likely we trade it anyway. I'm actually really struggling to see the downside here . IMO it a sweetener from the crows for the mcgovern trade in which we over paid.How can't people see this, it's like their conditioned to carlton being crap and getting low picks and thats what the footy season is about. Snap out of it people we've got a bloody good list now and will be racing up the ladder, wether its this year or next.

You have perfectly posted my sentiments. Spot on

 

[The Flying Doormat]

ESPN article. Nails it.
http://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/...phen-silvagni-trade-shows-blues-backing-build

Finally, a well argued insightful piece of sports reporting, and not just because the journo agrees with me.

 

[HBF]

I don't think it was football skill that let Troy down.

I agree. He was lazy.

 

[thylacine60]

yep - refreshing - penned by matt walsh - ok then........****ing post splitters........

 

[thylacine60]

I agree. He was lazy.

it was all downhill after the bun appeared........

 

[Nori]

I wonder if you have Wright’s insider knowledge at Adelaide saying Carlton will really struggle in 2019 and McGoven at Carlton saying Adelaide will struggle.

The difference is that Carlton have added heaps of Class since 2018 that is ready to go and Adelaide....?

 

[HBF]

ESPN article. Nails it.
http://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/...phen-silvagni-trade-shows-blues-backing-build

Sure does. Finally someone gets it.

 

[Jeremias]

Buku Khamus, Sydney Stack, Jye Bolton, Mitch Grigg, Marlion Pickett, Michael Gibbons, Callum Wilkie, Jonathan Marsh, Fraser Thurlow...

How many of those players were drafted - 3?

Just goes to show that for all the good work we see from phantom drafters during the year, they are only exposed to a small part of the picture.

 

[The Smoking Gun]

Completely disagree with the complaints about the rookie draft. Haven’t you seen our last 3-4 *actual* drafts? We have an incredibly young list and there are enough speculative types there already. We need some mature backups who can plug gaps and act as human shields for the younger, more talented guys.

Like we saw last year with a number of these low-ceiling but mature age battlers, they can play a role and at least insulate our youth from being thrown to the wolves too savagely. The only sort of players we’d be taking in the rookie draft, instead of Goddard and Bugg, would likely just be less developed versions of Goddard and Bugg.

I expect in the coming years, as our list fills out, you’ll see plenty more flyers in later rounds/rookie draft. We just need a few of these mature types of players for insurance at the moment (even if it is bloody boring).

Can't cop that this year. We acquired Newman, McGovern, Fasolo and Setterfield through the trade period, while Weitering, McKay, Charlie, SOSOS and Cuningham will all be 4th year players next season. They're not skinny kids any more and while it could be argued that two of them are yet to absolutely prove they're AFL standard at worst they're depth, which is all Goddard & Bugg are.

There was still plenty of reasonable kids out of this draft crop I would've much rather we'd had a crack at with Rookie spots, such as Daly Andrews, Tom McKenzie, Tom Lewis, Riley Bowman, Hayden Sampson, Damon Greaves, Angus Hanrahan, Joseph Ayton-Delaney, Kai Pudney, Alastair Richards, Buku Khamis, and I've barely scratched the surface. If ever there was a draft to snaffle a bargain out of the arse end of a draft it was this one. Think we've really failed to put Agresta's knack for finding a bargain to use.

 

[thylacine60]

tsg v sos - poll? I've already voted........

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Vote early, vote often.

 

[thylacine60]

below the line.......

 

[Soapy V]

Pardon my intolerance for bullshit but... Did we address our needs?? Of course we did, the biggest hole in our list was the midfield!!! You add the peripherals once the main part is set.

We got a very good mobile forward mature tall forward to help our young key forwards (McGovern)

A good mature HB/Wing (Newman)

We got a group of young mids that have top end potential. (Setterfield Walsh Stocker)

We added 2 x key defenders, one of which could step up straight away (BSOS & Goddard)

A young tall forward (O'Dwyer)

2 x mature hard working small forwards (Fasolo & Bugg)

Looks good to me

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

I'd kiss ya if you were here now..

 

[Blue_sunday]

In the 2019 draft I hope we look at trying to pick up Serong

 

[AT97]

ESPN article. Nails it.
http://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/...phen-silvagni-trade-shows-blues-backing-build

You should read what his espn colleague (knightmare) wrote about us. Pretty sure he Graded us worst performed (or pretty close to it) for the draft period.