List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread (cont. in Part 2)

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Oct 4, 2015
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Problem? PLEASE show me where I bragged about blocking you. C'mon BF, if you make an accusation at least back it up with some proof. You need to ease up and stop blaming everyone else

Stuff like "I've got him on block" and you should do it too etc.

Anyways all good. I'm tired of this back and forth, doesn't serve any purpose.

Fwiw, I reckon you're a knowledgable poster so don't want this to keep escalating.
 
Oct 2, 2007
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In what universe does trading #1 actually look like a good idea ??

Go back through the last 15 drafts and tell me the time where the number 1 pick was the best in the draft.

It doesn't happen.

Trading down pick 1 for pick 2 and a later pick is a solid option, moreso if we really rate Rankine and a club with pick 2 is dead set on Lukosis. We might be able to wrangle a deal like what GWS were prepared to offer for pick 2 (they traded picks 3 and 16 to get down to pick 2).

For example, presuming GCS finish 2nd last, we might consider trading pick 1 for picks 2 and WCE's 1st rounder (15?). We still get the player we want (Rankine) and also have an extra hit in the first round.

Have a serious read of the draft bios & expert comments that are starting to pop up, this Lukosius chap is clearly a one-off that just cannot be overlooked.

To be fair, they do say that every year. The hype around him is pretty huge though. Bigger than I've seen in my time here.

He's not doing it against other U/18 players either, he is already playing SANFL seniors and doing really well.

So has Izak Rankine (the one I want). That bloke debuted in the SANFL in 2016 as a 16 year old (the youngest ever SANFL debut) and has played 11 games for 18 goals, and has been named in the bests on several occasions.

All of the clubs know now how good this upcoming draft pool is, it's not like there is some secret info out there. The clubs who will have the high end draft picks will be the clubs who are in genuine need of serious talent so they will not be trading away any first-round picks unless there is a completely ridiculous offer made (eg. two decent young players & three other draft picks in the top 20).

But that's the reason we would consider trading. Clubs know how good the top end of the draft is this year, and are more likely this year to pay 'overs' to trade down to get a swing at one of Lukosis or Rankine (or one of the King twins, or a few others).

As long as we retain a presence in the top 5 of the draft this year (preferably pick 2 so we can pick up Rankine) then it's a good year to try and get two swings in the top 10 instead of just the one.
 
Midfielders midfielders midfielders thanks.
Big bodied inside mids.
Skilful outside mids.
Goal kicking mids.

Plus BSOS.

Thanks.
santa's gonna have a hell of a time getting all them down yer chimney...........but he can do it!
 
Its simple math ... the more times you expose yourself to top 20 picks the more chance you have of jagging a good player. Versus Pick 1 only. So downtrading (or uptrading) depending on how you look at it makes a whole lot of sense.
 
Mar 20, 2002
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Go back through the last 15 drafts and tell me the time where the number 1 pick was the best in the draft.

It doesn't happen.

And do you know that fact BEFORE the draft or only a few years down the track with the benefit of hindsight ??

That is some seriously ****ed logic right there.

If you have #1 you get the choice of every player in the draft, not take whatever is left later on down the track.

By the way, Jacob Weitering goes all right, reckon he was the best player in that draft.
As long as we retain a presence in the top 5 of the draft this year (preferably pick 2 so we can pick up Rankine) then it's a good year to try and get two swings in the top 10 instead of just the one.

So trade pick 1 for pick 2 ??

Why not just take Rankine with #1 if you think he is that good ??

GC or Brisbane (assuming they are the teams in the bottom three with us) are not going to trade #2 for #1 AND throw in another sweetener in the Top 10 when they are desperate for top end talent too !!

Again, that is some more weird 'Football Scientist' logic right there.

As much as I dislike Sheedy, the policy he followed and was extremely successful with it as well was (i) never ever trade out first round picks, (ii) always draft quality talls, not speculative ones & (iii) always trade out players whilst they still have some genuine currency in the marketplace (climbed the mountain but have just started to go down the other side).

We could benefit from following a formula like that.
 
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Oct 2, 2007
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And do you know that fact BEFORE the draft or only a few years down the track with the benefit of hindsight ??

That is some seriously ****** logic right there.

No it's not s**t logic. Its how the draft works. The 1st picked player is rarely (read almost never) the best one.

By the way, Jacob Weitering goes all right, reckon he was the best player in that draft.
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No dig at Wietering here either. Reckon he'll go AA one day.

So trade pick 1 for pick 2 ??

Why not just take Rankine with #1 if you think he is that good ??

Because there might be a club that really wants Lukosis and is prepared to pay overs to get him.

Why keep pick 1 and take Rankine, when we could trade pick 1 for picks 2 and 15 and still take Rankine, but also get a free pick at 15?

How is that confusing you? What part of 'lets get the player we want, AND get an extra 1st round pick' sounds like a bad idea?

GC or Brisbane (assuming they are the teams in the bottom three with us) are not going to trade #2 for #1 AND throw in another sweetener in the Top 10 when they are desperate for top end talent too !!

GWS did just that 2 years ago to snag McGrath or Taranto. They traded out picks 3 and 16 for pick 2 and some later picks.

You don't speak for Brissy or GC. They might really want Lukosis, and see this as the only way to get him.
 

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No it's not s**t logic. Its how the draft works. The 1st picked player is rarely (read almost never) the best one.


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No dig at Wietering here either. Reckon he'll go AA one day.



Because there might be a club that really wants Lukosis and is prepared to pay overs to get him.

Why keep pick 1 and take Rankine, when we could trade pick 1 for picks 2 and 15 and still take Rankine, but also get a free pick at 15?

How is that confusing you? What part of 'lets get the player we want, AND get an extra 1st round pick' sounds like a bad idea?



GWS did just that 2 years ago to snag McGrath or Taranto. They traded out picks 3 and 16 for pick 2 and some later picks.

You don't speak for Brissy or GC. They might really want Lukosis, and see this as the only way to get him.

All fine in logic but likely won't happen
 

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Midfielders midfielders midfielders thanks.
Big bodied inside mids.
Skilful outside mids.
Goal kicking mids.

Plus BSOS.

Thanks.

If we finish last , Jack Lukosius will be called out, it would be amazing for CFC the clear 1st pick in this draft.
Izak Rankine will go next both are elite , exceptional and not easy to spilt . Lukosius athleticism and amazing work rate tip the scales in his favor and we need KPF future champion more .
 
Mar 20, 2002
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No it's not s**t logic. Its how the draft works. The 1st picked player is rarely (read almost never) the best one.

So if #1 isn't the best player, can you tell me which pick does get the best player then ?? :rolleyes:

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No dig at Wietering here either. Reckon he'll go AA one day.

Mills isn't part of the equation given that he was an Academy player which meant we had no access to him.

No dig at Weitering ?? If that wasn't a dig then I don't what is.

If he becomes a 200-game AA defender, then the recruiting team have done their job.

Because there might be a club that really wants Lukosis and is prepared to pay overs to get him.

Why keep pick 1 and take Rankine, when we could trade pick 1 for picks 2 and 15 and still take Rankine, but also get a free pick at 15?

How is that confusing you? What part of 'lets get the player we want, AND get an extra 1st round pick' sounds like a bad idea?

We want Lukosis so we'll keep #1 thanks.

If you know now that Lukosious & Rankine were going to have the same careers as Riewoldt & Burgoyne, which one would you take ?? It would be Riewoldt every time based on where our list is right now.

GWS did just that 2 years ago to snag McGrath or Taranto. They traded out picks 3 and 16 for pick 2 and some later picks.

You don't speak for Brissy or GC. They might really want Lukosis, and see this as the only way to get him.

When you have an established list of gold like GWS has, you then have the luxury of being able to take some risks. We are not in such a plush position though.

And you don't speak for Carlton either !!

You have a hard-on for Rankine, I get that but why would we want another 5'10" lightly framed mid, we already have a couple of those, look at Fisher, Polson & SPS.
 
Oct 2, 2007
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You have a hard-on for Rankine, I get that but why would we want another 5'10" lightly framed mid, we already have a couple of those, look at Fisher, Polson & SPS.

Watch:



I mean, I know you know SFA about football other than 'don't draft anyone under 6'5", but watch that video. If you don't see it, I cant help you.
 
Mar 20, 2002
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Watch:



I mean, I know you know SFA about football other than 'don't draft anyone under 6'5", but watch that video. If you don't see it, I cant help you.


Lukosious is 194cm which is 6ft 4in in the old language so that clearly proves that (a) 6'5" is not my overall minimum standard & (b) if that adage was true, then I would be advocating one of the King twins but I'm not, I want the best footballer, not the tallest.
 
Bailey Williams had a big weekend: kicked 7.3, 8 marks (4 contested), 17 disposals.
The best part? He's actually an elite ruck. Here he is, wearing number 29:



It's funny isn't it?

We're going through a 'Don't waste an early pick on a ruckman' stage, yet there aren't many (if any) players, you'd now take ahead of Grundy who went at #18 in 2012.
 
Nov 4, 2003
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It's funny isn't it?

We're going through a 'Don't waste an early pick on a ruckman' stage, yet there aren't many (if any) players, you'd now take ahead of Grundy who went at #18 in 2012.
I wouldn't call Williams top 5 material, but I think he's in the top 10 mix. If he slides out of the first round, I suspect SOS will snap him up with the Doggies' pick.

Pretty sure Williams is playing through an ankle niggle, hence why he's sitting at FF instead of Schmidt.
 
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I wouldn't call Williams top 5 material, but I think he's in the top 10 mix. If he slides out of the first round, I suspect SOS will snap him up with the Doggies' pick.

Pretty sure Williams is playing through an ankle niggle, hence why he's sitting at FF instead of Schmidt.

At 198cm, he may be a tad short to match it with some of really big lumbering rucks in the league though, our back-up Phillips is 204cm which seems to be the norm these days.

I'd be really pleased if we grabbed a young ruck in this upcoming draft though.

(i) Lukosious @ #1
(ii) best mid-sized or bigger mid available with our next pick
(ii) best mid-sized or bigger mid available with our next pick
(iv) best ruck prospect if there is still one there, otherwise another mid
(v) best available
(vi) best available
 
Nov 4, 2003
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At 198cm, he may be a tad short to match it with some of really big lumbering rucks in the league though, our back-up Phillips is 204cm which seems to be the norm these days.

I'd be really pleased if we grabbed a young ruck in this upcoming draft though.

(i) Lukosious @ #1
(ii) best mid-sized or bigger mid available with our next pick
(ii) best mid-sized or bigger mid available with our next pick
(iv) best ruck prospect if there is still one there, otherwise another mid
(v) best available
(vi) best available
Watch him play (though not the video I linked) and you'll understand why I think he's an elite ruck. Kid can jump.
 
I wouldn't call Williams top 5 material, but I think he's in the top 10 mix. If he slides out of the first round, I suspect SOS will snap him up with the Doggies' pick.

Pretty Williams is playing through an ankle niggle too, hence why he's sitting at FF instead of Schmidt.

Just making the point about mobile ruck-men in particular, being in vogue again.
I liked Williams last year and he looks likes he's started this year off in style. Wouldn't complain should TDK start kicking a few bags :)

I don't know. I feel we have a reasonable quota of x-factor players and I guess one can never have enough, but we do need others doing some heavy lifting along with lifting our possession count.
We have a reasonable base of mids and know we need some mature bodies to support, but wouldn't be against should we pick up an Ollie Wines and/or DeGoey (but a more sensible one) at this draft. A couple of bulls that can kick goals when forward.
Nowhere near as sexy as a Rankine or Hill, but they'd be there crunching players week in, week out.

Maybe we're just playing out a 2 for 1 scenario that will never eventuate, but we never know.
 
Nov 13, 2015
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From what I saw when he goes back he doesn't play man on man. And as a forward it's the same thing, his opposition are always considerably shorter.

I guess he can only do what he can do, but he is much more than just a defender. I believe he is a more dangerous forward, than his brother Max. Ben reminds me a little of Jake Carlisle. When you move that well for a tall kid, there is a fair bit to work with, at the next level
 
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