List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread (cont. in Part 2)

[HARKER]

Juddy offering support to King. Vested interest perhaps.

Not a bad little ploy, Judd. Very crafty.

You can't get all the players you want, but absolutely no harm in showing love for them before and after the draft.
Reckon SOS would continue to keep in touch with Setterfield, even though he did sign on for another couple of years at GWS.

 

[Sector 7G]

Saw a a quick picture of Ben Ronke's champion data stats for his draft year on, on the couch, i think and i was surprised to see every stat they had, he was rated elite in 2 of them and above average on all others. So it begs the question, why was he overlooked by all clubs multiple times?

A lot of posters mention moneyball scenarios on this forum but it seems most clubs are missing gems for unconscious bias.

I saw an interview with Ronke after the game, if i had to make an assumption it would be that he could be a bit of a lad, likes to joke around, a bit pretty but if that was 100% true, surely that doesn't push someone down the draft order that much, does it?

It surprises me the same that Brayshaw shot up the draft rankings because of his perceived good character.

Thought he seemed like a great character that would be a great addition to any team. We don't need our players to give a school captains speech at the valedictorian dinner. When judging character give me a guy with intensity like Ronke over an ex school captain like Darcy Moore that doesn't have great desire. That's what I want.

 

[bigdog43]

Saw a a quick picture of Ben Ronke's champion data stats for his draft year on, on the couch, i think and i was surprised to see every stat they had, he was rated elite in 2 of them and above average on all others. So it begs the question, why was he overlooked by all clubs multiple times?

A lot of posters mention moneyball scenarios on this forum but it seems most clubs are missing gems for unconscious bias.

I saw an interview with Ronke after the game, if i had to make an assumption it would be that he could be a bit of a lad, likes to joke around, a bit pretty but if that was 100% true, surely that doesn't push someone down the draft order that much, does it?

It surprises me the same that Brayshaw shot up the draft rankings because of his perceived good character.

This might make you feel a little worse but Silvagni watched Ronke play in the VAFA grand final for St. Bernards.

 

[Arr0w]

I think Brayshaw was also a safe pick. Good all-round skills, seriously driven, and one of the fitter kids due to his work ethic (and character). He was taken at #2 which came from GCS in exchange for Weller so Freo probably wanted to be sure they'd get a replacement midfielder out of it who would make the grade.

If i was Freo, i would have taken Cerra at 2 and Naughton at 5

Not that i don't rate Brayshaw, just believe the other 2 were a better fit

 

[thylacine60]

cerra seems a ripper on exposed form - yeah, yeah I know........bootsma thread.........

 

[bmaurizio]

I think Brayshaw was also a safe pick. Good all-round skills, seriously driven, and one of the fitter kids due to his work ethic (and character). He was taken at #2 which came from GCS in exchange for Weller so Freo probably wanted to be sure they'd get a replacement midfielder out of it who would make the grade.

In the 2018 draft, I see Baily Smith as a similar proposition as to Brayshaw.
Good skills, great kick , athletic and with some grunta very good, well balanced midfielder.

 

[bmaurizio]

If i was Freo, i would have taken Cerra at 2 and Naughton at 5

Not that i don't rate Brayshaw, just believe the other 2 were a better fit

Yes Cerra certainly has the goods , an efficient, skilled user distributor of the ball so important always.
Pre draft 2017, Dow & DUJ had a lot of hype, attractiveness about them as a midfielders, let's hope they too deliver over the journey.

 

[Unique Name]

If i was Freo, i would have taken Cerra at 2 and Naughton at 5

Not that i don't rate Brayshaw, just believe the other 2 were a better fit

Would be interesting how many goals have come directly from Naughton's turnovers. He played for Peel (Freo's affiliate side in the WAFL) so we obviously saw quite a bit of him. His kicking was seen as a big issue pre-draft and has been an issue for him this year.

His marking is McGovern-like but if his kicking skills don't improve the Bulldogs will have gone way too early using a top 10 pick on him.

 

[DangerousD]

Thought he seemed like a great character that would be a great addition to any team. We don't need our players to give a school captains speech at the valedictorian dinner. When judging character give me a guy with intensity like Ronke over an ex school captain like Darcy Moore that doesn't have great desire. That's what I want.

I agree, but why do you think he slid, or why do others slide? Do recruiters still have pre conceived ideas or unconscious bias, ill try find the stats but it doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Arr0w]

Would be interesting how many goals have come directly from Naughton's turnovers. He played for Peel (Freo's affiliate side in the WAFL) so we obviously saw quite a bit of him. His kicking was seen as a big issue pre-draft and has been an issue for him this year.

His marking is McGovern-like but if his kicking skills don't improve the Bulldogs will have gone way too early using a top 10 pick on him.

I understand he like every kid has flaws and you did take some KPP's, personally, i think he was a good fit

 

[footylover18]

Not a bad little ploy, Judd. Very crafty.

Judd and King share the same manager, Robbie D'Orazio.

D'Orazio asked Judd to contact King to give some advice about how to deal with getting injured in his draft year.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Done a bit of watching/ research. Really liking Collier Dawkins. Reckon he’s a genuine top 3 chance come end of season. Keen to watch the champs.

Shane Nelson from the WAFL is a really interesting potential older player we could get with a later pick. Great fitness. Gets it inside and outside.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Done a bit of watching/ research. Really liking Collier Dawkins. Reckon he’s a genuine top 3 chance come end of season. Keen to watch the champs.

Shane Nelson from the WAFL is a really interesting potential older player we could get with a later pick. Great fitness. Gets it inside and outside.

Shane Nelson I don't think will ever be on an AFL list, just not sure his game translates to AFL.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Shane Nelson I don't think will ever be on an AFL list, just not sure his game translates to AFL.

Shane Nelson I don't think will ever be on an AFL list, just not sure his game translates to AFL.

Sometimes I wonder about this. He’s averaging 40 disposals a game and has a huge tank. What aspect doesn’t translate? I’d hazard a guess his decision making?

 

[Jimmae]

Sometimes I wonder about this. He’s averaging 40 disposals a game and has a huge tank. What aspect doesn’t translate? I’d hazard a guess his decision making?

I'd suggest it'd be an issue on and off the field, because he's not a name that ever gets mentioned. Lacks a little pace too.

 

[The Grover]

Done a bit of watching/ research. Really liking Collier Dawkins. Reckon he’s a genuine top 3 chance come end of season. Keen to watch the champs.

Shane Nelson from the WAFL is a really interesting potential older player we could get with a later pick. Great fitness. Gets it inside and outside.

Saw vision of game against Western Jets, he has some real pace.

Look forward to seeing him at champs.

 

[Jimmae]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-05-23/overseas-camps-dumped-among-academy-changes

Where the Academy was seen as a prestigious 'finishing school' for the top prospects, that side of the program will no longer exist, with players to instead spend their time at state-based academies.

In decentralising the national Academy, the AFL will create five talent 'hubs' –Western Australia, South Australia, Vic Metro, Vic Country and the Allies. There will be 30 players in each hub, made up of 17- and 18-year-old players, with a total of 150 players across the country in the program – an increase on the 60 players annually added to the NAB AFL Academy.

...

Great changes.

 

[HBF]

It's still very early in the year and Nationals will provide the best guide and cause some adjustments no doubt, but FWIW my Top 10 prospects at this stage:

#1 Jack Lukosius 196cm 84kg 9/8/2000 KPF/KPD
Someone said the kid could play a bit so I stuck him here.

#2 Ben King 201cm 85kg 7/7/2000 KPF/KPD
I actually like Ben better than his brother from an AFL perspective. Is every bit as capable as Max when it comes to playing as a KPF, but has the versatility of playing being able to play as a KPD. I also suspect he may have the better endurance level of the two given that he's not confined to playing just inside 50m arc. I have to admit I was surprised how quick and agile someone of his size was able to find the ball on the deck after spoiling it in the air. Is he a more accurate kick than his brother??? That's not something I'll be able to answer with any certainty until after the U18 Nationals, but he's certainly just as good a mark.

#3 Nick Blakey 195cm 80kg 27/2/2000 Tall Utility
There are not very many prospects at 195cm who can literally play in every part of the ground and do it with aplomb, but Blakey can. Key Position Forward, Key Position Back or as a genuine balanced mid, Blakey can do it all. Being located up in Sydney as part of their academy he tends to fly under the radar somewhat, but in my opinion he deserves to be right up there with the very best in this draft pool. Strong in the air, good off the deck and combined with great disposal by hand or foot means he has an exceptionally strong skillset to make it at AFL level. With an ageing Buddy as the injury-prone Sam Reid as their

#4 Izak Rankine 180cm 76kg 23/4/2000 Small Forward/Balanced Mid
If anyone has the potential to dislodge Lukosius from the the coveted #1 spot it's this kid. Had a quiet start to the year serving a 3 match suspension incurred last year. Rankine will probably be the fastest player ever drafted irrespective of what the end of year Combine results may or may not show. Its not his speed that makes him so deadly, its the impact he brings per possession. In his return to the SANFL this year Rankine managed to snaffle 4 goals from 12 possessions while stationed on a HFF. Absolutely decimated the U17 Allstars game last year, but it will be interesting to see if he still maintains that dominance over his peers come this years U18 Nationals Carnival. If he can then he'll surge straight back to the top of every ranking list you can find. Time will tell.

#5 Max King 201cm 86kg 23/4/2000 KPF
There aren't many kids at any elite level for their age that can generate 14+ shots at goal in a game, but this kid can. Even though he's done his ACL, the lack of quality KPF prospects for the last few drafts means he'll still be in high demand come draft time. Like his brother, Max has very sticky hands and has the ability to mark the ball cleanly even when the ball appears to get behind him in the air. One of the things I really like about Max is that he presents up at the ball carrier, which allows him to find the ball on the deck if he gets spoiled. The only real criticism I have of Max King is that he doesn't always make the most of his opportunities in front of goal. Whilst it's disappointing that he's done an ACL at least he's done it early in the year and shouldn't impact on his first AFL preseason too much.

#6 Bailey Smith 184cm 79kg 7/12/2000 Balanced Mid/Medium Defender
Probably the best rounded and versatile mid in this years draft IMO. Smith can be used as an inside mid and find you a dozen clearances, but you can use him as your true balanced accumulator where he's already demonstrated an ability to acquire 40+ possessions in a game or you can utilise him on the outside where his pace comes to the fore as he breaks the lines. Add to this that Smith is a very good HBF, but also able to hit the scoreboard when resting forward so you get what I mean when it comes to versatility. Smith's disposal is unerringly accurate by hand or foot when distributing the ball to outside targets from inside congestion, but he is at his most damaging when streaming forward with his pinpoint kicking. The other thing I like about Smith is that he already runs both ways, has a strong defensive side to his game and can stick a tackle. SOS and Bolton have had a very good opportunity to assess Smith firsthand at our preseason training camp in Maroochydore last year and I'd be extremely surprised if he isn't right at the top of SOS' "must have" list.

#7 Sam Walsh 183cm 74kg 2/7/2000 Balanced Mid
I find it really hard to place Walsh. Not the quickest midfielder I have here (think Gibbs speed), but his ability to twist out of trouble onto either foot more often than not gives him enough time to get a kick away to a team mate within close proximity. While he can find the ball on the inside, I'd describe Walsh as more of an outside-leaning, balanced mid and he's already demonstrated he's capable of accumulating an enormous amount of possessions. One thing I'd like to see him do is put a little more penetration into his short kicks to ensure they reach their intended target on the full. At moment many of his short kicks are dinky stabs that fall short of the target (like Simmo). Despite this, one of Walsh's best attributes is that he is always looking for a target rather than simply blasting away, even under extreme pressure. It will be interesting to see how well he goes in the Vic Country midfield where he'll have others to help carry the load. Walsh is only lightly built so whoever drafts him will need to show a little patience while builds up some size.

#8 Alastair Richards 187cm 78kg 6/4/2000 Medium Defender/Inside Mid
Like his brother Ed, it's pretty hard to miss him on the field due to his shock of bright red hair. Some will be surprised to see me have him this high, but Richards is someone I see whose game is developing at an extremely rapid rate. Already has terrific endurance and as a result he's one of the few at this age you'll find still running on top of the ground late in games using his acceleration and pace to power away from the contest. Found himself promoted from the HBF to an inside mid to cover for the injured Bailey Smith where he excelled inside the contest and then proved it was no "one off" by being one of the real standouts at the Victorian Trials. Richards is an excellent kick, either from a standing start or on the run, that allows him to pick out targets 50m away with regular precision. When you have speed, acceleration, endurance, size, an appetite for the contest, make good decisions as well as excellent disposal by hand and foot then you are definitely going to put yourself right of towards the pointy end of most clubs' shopping lists. Richards MKII has a higher ceiling than his brother IMO and I suspect he'll be one of the standouts for Vic Metro at the U18 Nationals.

#9 Jackson Hately 192cm 80kg 21/10/2000 Inside Mid
I really like this kid. Absolutely dominated the centre square in the Academy game against Norf VFL. It wasn't just his power inside the clearances that impressed, but his ability to become an aerial target through the corridor and when resting up forward where he impacts the scoreboard. Has enjoyed a very solid start to his year playing seniors in the SANFL where he's generally accumulated 20-25 disposals against men, which will hold him in good stead when drafted. The biggest knock I've heard on Hately was consistency with his disposal, but I have to admit that wasn't an issue in the academy game. Will be an absolute brute, in the mould of Cripps & Wines, when he fills out.

#10 Bailey Williams 198cm 95kg Ruck/KPF
If you were game to spend a 1st Rounder on a ruckman then Bailey Williams would be the one. The thing that really stands out about Williams is his enormous leap that makes him a real handful for opponents not just playing in the ruck, but also when he plays up forward. I really liked what Williams showed as an under-ager during last years Nationals. One of the other things that makes him unusual is that his movements are unusually well coordinated for someone of his size, not unlike Blicavs. So far this year Williams has spent most of the season playing as a KPF due to the Stingrays also having Riley Bowman and Sam De Koning playing as ruckmen. Kicked a bag of 7 against the Western Jets earlier this year. The areas where Williams needs to improve are his consistency and he needs to find a bit more of the ball around the ground. This kid has as much talent as anyone in this draft pool and for a club who has the coaching structures in place to assist Williams to reach his potential then he'll have just as much ability to control a match as Rankine or Lukosius.

Brilliant write up TSG.

 

[MasterBlue]

I'd suggest it'd be an issue on and off the field, because he's not a name that ever gets mentioned. Lacks a little pace too.

He has had some off field issues at times such as getting into a fight outside a nightclub never a good thing on the CV for someone wanting to join an AFL list.

 

[Prochard123]

Having already invested so many high end 1st rounders on your key position players, you now have a very good spine in:

FB: Weitering
CHB: Plowman/Marchbank/Jones?
CHF: Curnow
FF: Mckay

Lukosius seem excess to needs.

If we got Pick 14 from Sydney for Moore.

Would Pick 9 (What we have currently) + Pick 14 +end of 2nd round compo for Fasolo which is pick 37 ish(I believe Freo will return the faviour for Mayne and make a pretty good offer) for pick 1?

There are always sliders in the draft, i can definitely imagine one of the King brothers falling out of favour for injury or whatever reason and fall to pick 9. Then you also have another 1st rounders to use on a very good midfielder as well as a speculative pick later on.

Seems fair to me and a win win situation, but if u rate Lukosius as highly as knightmare does, fair enough if you wouldn't do it.

 

[HARKER]

Lukosius seems excess to needs.

If we got Pick 14 from Sydney for Moore.

Would Pick 9 (What we have currently) + Pick 14 +end of 2nd round compo for Fasolo which is pick 37 ish(I believe Freo will return the faviour for Mayne and make a pretty good offer) for pick 1?

There are always sliders in the draft, i can definitely imagine one of the King brothers falling out of favour for injury or whatever reason and fall to pick 9. Then you also have another 1st rounders to use on a very good midfielder as well as a speculative pick later on.

Seems fair to me and a win win situation, but if u rate Lukosius as highly as knightmare does, fair enough if you wouldn't do it.

Not given his mobility
I'd be happy with a forward line inclusive of CCurnow, McKay, Lukosius and then the pressure/goal-kicking smalls. Mo problem.

Champs start in 2 weeks, meaning the talk really cranks up from here on in.

 

[CFC_#17]

Having already invested so many high end 1st rounders on your key position players, you now have a very good spine in:

FB: Weitering
CHB: Plowman/Marchbank/Jones?
CHF: Curnow
FF: Mckay

Lukosius seem excess to needs.

If we got Pick 14 from Sydney for Moore.

Would Pick 9 (What we have currently) + Pick 14 +end of 2nd round compo for Fasolo which is pick 37 ish(I believe Freo will return the faviour for Mayne and make a pretty good offer) for pick 1?

There are always sliders in the draft, i can definitely imagine one of the King brothers falling out of favour for injury or whatever reason and fall to pick 9. Then you also have another 1st rounders to use on a very good midfielder as well as a speculative pick later on.

Seems fair to me and a win win situation, but if u rate Lukosius as highly as knightmare does, fair enough if you wouldn't do it.

I can only see us trading pick 1 for 2 top 10 picks at the very least, more Likley we would trade pick 1 to Gold Coast for There first pick and the compo they receive for Lynch maybe a pick back to them or a player.

 

[bigdog43]

There is going to be some seriously, seriously talented kids available from 20-35 that would be close to the top 10 in previous years. Very happy that we have two second rounders.

 

[LordLucifer]

Go to the draft and grab :

1. Jack Lukosius (Woodville-West Torrens)

2. Jackson Hately (Central Districts)

3. Riley Collier-Dawkins (Oakleigh Chargers)

4. Michael Mummery (NT Thunder)


SOS, weave your magic please.

 

[bmaurizio]

Go to the draft and grab :

1. Jack Lukosius (Woodville-West Torrens)

2. Jackson Hately (Central Districts)

3. Riley Connor-Dawkins (Oakleigh Chargers)

4. Michael Mummery (NT Thunder)


SOS, weave your magic please.

That would be a great result, especially the athletic and brilliant high fwd Lukosius, KP size but can play as a wing . A strong midfielder in Hately ( He may go a lot higher I think ) the other two lads know very little especially Mummery.