List Mgmt. Carlton's 2019 Draft Thread

[ABigOlDoofus]

Sounds a lot like Stocker

Not quite, definitely not as good by foot as him. Also has a bigger tank than Stocker at this stage, but Stocker is built much bigger.

 

[TerryWallet]

Ok Terry, freely admit to not having taken a scrap of notice re this years draft following the clubs well documented desire to trade our premium pick for established players.
I like the way you have laid out your phantom draft and added some reasoning.
Can you give us some more (height, weight, strengths, plays like ?)on this D.Robertson lad ?
Maybe some footage ?
WA has been good to Carlton recently so that’s a nice start ...

Cheers.

Robertson weighed in at 184cm and 82kg at the Combine. So he's grown a bit, as expected, during the year. Pretty much a great size for a mid now.

He is Darren Glass' nephew and was AA captain this year. Doofus had a good rundown of his qualities above. What i liked about the games i watched him in was just that kind of mixture of while being a ball magnet, he also does all the team stuff and helps his teammates get the ball too. He's a great leader and teammate. In contests, he gets the ball while his body is at all angles under pressure. He just has that desire, will and talent to get it. Also gets from contest to contest with ease.

He's not perfect, he's a little untidy at this stage, but imo has got "it" and can be cleaned up at an AFL club. Maybe if i could make a comparison, he's maybe a bit like a better moving Priddis who while being a Brownlow Medalist, maybe isn't to everyone's taste but he got it done.

In the Carnival decider he led WA to victory carrying a busted shoulder the whole match which then got reconstructed after. He didn't miss a beat despite that and is tough as nails. The AFL heat won't bother him a bit.

 

[TerryWallet]

For those interested, over on the draft hub eDPS has posted an updated Phantom top 30 odd with up to date heights and measures. Quite a few have grown up during the year as expected and put on a few cm's and kg's than the measures you might have read previously.

 

[smashbox gill]

If there’s a Pickett or Rioli available we need to start picking them. They predominantly turn out to be good players then not

 

[THE_GUN]

If there’s a Pickett or Rioli available we need to start picking them. They predominantly turn out to be good players then not

The next Rioli is Maurice Jnr 2020
but love to take another pickett just for the lol's

Pickett & mini Pickett

 

[ferrisb]

Who are the players that 'retain possession'? It seems pretty straightforward, but to me getting the ball to a teammate is the most underrated skill in footy.

Who cares if you can run, jump or even kick the ball 60m if you are just banging the ball on your boot or kick to a 1-on-1?

There are some players that just have a knack of finding a teammate. The ones who can spot free players, kick to advantage, not give off hospital passes, weight the ball etc. It's more than just kicking skills though, it's decision making, footy IQ, awareness, gameplan adherence.

Cripps gets plaudits for being a superhuman extractor, but it's the fact he shovels the ball out to an open teammate and breaks the game open that is his real skill. Most of our defenders hold the ball for 5 seconds before kicking down the line. But Simmo almost always seems finds a spare man.
Samo doesn't get rid of the ball instantly, he dances around, surveys the field and usually hits a marking/running target.
Outside of Carlton, I look at someone like Sidebottom. I swear every time he gets the ball, a teammate has it in an advantageous position 2 seconds later.

So, I ask....who are the guys in the draft pool that will not just get the ball but break the game open or start a chain that makes meaningful progress up the field?

 

[RoyalParade]

I am personally not a huge Pickett fan, but maybe at pick 43 it is a viable option.

I have a feeling that this year we will get Martin in the PSD and next year obtain Pap's, so drafting for forward needs may not be ideal. I would be just drafting best available. I would probably stay away from rucks and tall defenders. I prefer to steal rucks from other clubs and we have a current crop of tallish defenders.

Midfield elite runners with good kicking skills are a nice option.

Rantall, Ruscoe - They're two favourites thay may slip to our pick.

We could even consider a Garcia if his value has dropped due to his injury.

Still way to hard to know who is around at pick 43 to have a guess.

The BF main phantom draft is happening soon, so we may get a better idea how BF mug punters view the draft. Thomson Dow is another name that may interest us with the brother connection.

Hey mate, what do you think of Thorne and bennell? Could they be good late to rookie picks?

 

[Jimmae]

Who are the players that 'retain possession'?

Nick Graham's available

 

[ferrisb]

Am I silly that I don't really care that Kemp can also play forward and back?

I know positional flexibility is all the rage, but I just want the best players in each position (not saying Kemp isn't a great midfielder).

And before anyone says 'what about Dusty who can go forward and kick goals'? Sure, that's amazing. But finding a midfielder as good as Dusty is bloody tough. Finding one who is also a weapon up forward is almost impossible.

To paraphrase Mr_Plow....I just want a midfielder that tastes like a real midfielder.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Am I silly that I don't really care that Kemp can also play forward and back?

I know positional flexibility is all the rage, but I just want the best players in each position (not saying Kemp isn't a great midfielder).

And before anyone says 'what about Dusty who can go forward and kick goals'? Sure, that's amazing. But finding a midfielder as good as Dusty is bloody tough. Finding one who is also a weapon up forward is almost impossible.

To paraphrase Mr_Plow....I just want a midfielder that tastes like a real midfielder.

I agree in the fact that it shouldn't be *the* selling point, but it's definitely a tick in his favour. The ability to swing forward or back is a truly elite skill for a midfielder, so having that on top of elite midfield potential is a rare thing.

 

[Stamos]

Am I silly that I don't really care that Kemp can also play forward and back?

I know positional flexibility is all the rage, but I just want the best players in each position (not saying Kemp isn't a great midfielder).

And before anyone says 'what about Dusty who can go forward and kick goals'? Sure, that's amazing. But finding a midfielder as good as Dusty is bloody tough. Finding one who is also a weapon up forward is almost impossible.

To paraphrase Mr_Plow....I just want a midfielder that tastes like a real midfielder.

In Dusty's case, I think it's his forward play that separates him as a player.
He might start in the centre square, but he doesn't really play as a mid very often.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Pick 9 - Kemp (would settle for Stephens)

Id explore taking a punt late on Partington if he’s still on the board.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

In Dusty's case, I think it's his forward play that separates him as a player.
He might start in the centre square, but he doesn't really play as a mid very often.

He is a primary mid. As good as he is forward he still only kicks 30 goals a season

 

[The Shag]

Dare I say - Kemp’s highlights do excite.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LemmingMaster]

Hey mate, what do you think of Thorne and bennell? Could they be good late to rookie picks?

I'm personally not huge on them and would probably look elsewhere, late rookie options is around where they may sit.

 

[reubsblues]

After watching a few videos
I'd definitely take Stephens or Kemp
Flanders disposal was terrible
We need elite kicks we already have enough players with ify disposal
I recon Stephens could play round 1 with his speed endurance and elite kicking and has played against men already in the sanfl

 

[ray8182]

Who are the players that 'retain possession'? It seems pretty straightforward, but to me getting the ball to a teammate is the most underrated skill in footy.

Who cares if you can run, jump or even kick the ball 60m if you are just banging the ball on your boot or kick to a 1-on-1?

There are some players that just have a knack of finding a teammate. The ones who can spot free players, kick to advantage, not give off hospital passes, weight the ball etc. It's more than just kicking skills though, it's decision making, footy IQ, awareness, gameplan adherence.

Cripps gets plaudits for being a superhuman extractor, but it's the fact he shovels the ball out to an open teammate and breaks the game open that is his real skill. Most of our defenders hold the ball for 5 seconds before kicking down the line. But Simmo almost always seems finds a spare man.
Samo doesn't get rid of the ball instantly, he dances around, surveys the field and usually hits a marking/running target.
Outside of Carlton, I look at someone like Sidebottom. I swear every time he gets the ball, a teammate has it in an advantageous position 2 seconds later.

So, I ask....who are the guys in the draft pool that will not just get the ball but break the game open or start a chain that makes meaningful progress up the field?

Got to be able to string possessions together to be able to kick goals. This has been the most depressing thing in recent years, watching possession chains break down because of players with unreliable decision making or skill.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[HARKER]

Dare I say - Kemp’s highlights do excite.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Suggested to me that we have Kemp rated at #3. (Reading between the lines)

He may be a wonderful player but also maybe a little too Setterfield also.
His profile reminds me very much of Setterfield, but I don't feel we need to load up on another 190cm+ mid right now.

On profile alone, I like Dylan Stephens for us at #9

 

[LanceRomance]

I've noticed some people suggesting a trade for GC's mid first rounder next year.
How can this be done when the pick itself is (supposedly) provisional?

What a stupid position the AFL has put itself into; 'You can have it but maybe you can't and we'll decide on that later, but we don't really know on what grounds'

Stupidity and they're digging a deeper and deeper rabbit hole for themselves as they go along.

We had Adrian Anderson once, who was very methodological but I think perhaps too methodological.

Now we are the otherway, all business deals.

 

[ray8182]

Suggested to me that we have Kemp rated at #3. (Reading between the lines)

He may be a wonderful player but also maybe a little too Setterfield also.
His profile reminds me very much of Setterfield, but I don't feel we need to load up on another 190cm+ mid right now.

On profile alone, I like Dylan Stephens for us at #9

It could become a question of when do you take best available over need. How much better does best available have to be before you ignore a need.

If your recruiters really believe in kemp do you ignore the likes of Ash and Stephens who would fit very nicely.

It has surprised me how there a lot of comments about Carlton being interested in kemp. Whilst Silvagni has been list manager have we ever had any idea who Carlton was going to take in a draft, prior to the draft?


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[TerryWallet]

It could become a question of when do you take best available over need. How much better does best available have to be before you ignore a need.

If your recruiters really believe in kemp do you ignore the likes of Ash and Stephens who would fit very nicely.

It has surprised me how there a lot of comments about Carlton being interested in kemp. Whilst Silvagni has been list manager have we ever had any idea who Carlton was going to take in a draft, prior to the draft?


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

I think by about 2 or so weeks out, it was pretty clear we were gonna take Weitering, Samo, Dow and Walsh who were our last 4 first picks.

But they were higher picks and also not affected by live picking on draft night. Because of those factors we mightn't get much of an early indication on our keenness this year. In saying that though, the insiders tracking home visits and all those kinda things usually have an 80% success rate of placing the Top 10 to clubs at least a week or so from the draft.

So we've got at least a fortnight or so to guess and theorise to our hearts content here yet.

 

[HARKER]

It could become a question of when do you take best available over need. How much better does best available have to be before you ignore a need.

If your recruiters really believe in kemp do you ignore the likes of Ash and Stephens who would fit very nicely.

It has surprised me how there a lot of comments about Carlton being interested in kemp. Whilst Silvagni has been list manager have we ever had any idea who Carlton was going to take in a draft, prior to the draft?


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

No absolute right nor wrong way to look at it and many factors may come into play, but how should the CFC be looking at things, given our position?

We have a very young list of core (best 22) players.
We only have Simpson, Murphy, Kreuzer and ECurnow (maybe Betts now) that will be coming off our list the next two to three years due to age.
We're already prepared for life without Simpson. We need our young mids to step up to take over from Murphy next year and ECurnow won't be an issue.
We do need a ruckman but that will be dealt with via trade, even though we'll be fast-tracking De Koning. We need to fast-track De Koning.

Back to the question -

Of course we won't take a player we don't like simply because he fits a need, but I feel it's a little more involved now than for the old way of doing things by a, "Just take the best player' scenario.
We have a lot of youth on the list and unless we admit we've made some very bad choices in recent drafts/recruitments, we have good coverage in the midfield.
That's not to say we don't need mids but just not something we already have and will be forced to play musical chairs with.

Will not surprise me should we take a speedy outside player or a small forward/mid, should the opportunity present.
We do like Kemp though and if we do genuinely rate him at three and he slides......

 

[Coona Blues]

I am really enjoying some of the opinions being put forward this year. There seems to be greater understanding of the "landscape" than in previous seasons.

FWIW, I believe that while we are lesser players on draft night this time around, this year can be pivotal in our rebuild. Consensus has it that we need a mature (stronger bodied) midfielder, outside run, rebounding pace and precision, possibly a lockdown smaller defender, another ruck and notably small forward(s).

Do we maintain our picks and take a "gun" on our radar and whatever manages to get through to 43 and beyond, or conjure a pick swap to get two or three picks in the depth sweet spot of the draft. #9 and #43 gets us "hopefully" a top liner and a slider. What potential trading partners? Brisbane could bring us #16 and #34 for 9/43, Geelong either #14 and #36 or #17 and #24 with some other swaps, Gold Coast chasing #9, but doubtful we could attain #15 and #20 in return. Perhaps Hawthorn's #11 and 30/42 if they want to get ahead of a McGinness bid. Port have #12, #18 and #29, maybe they have a specific target which may not reach #12. Certainly possibilities.

If we maintain 9, my preferred targets have been well discussed. Kemp or Stephens are the logicals, with Robertson the back up if picks do not fall as hoped. I rate Kemp, pre injury as top 3 in the draft, and not necessarily 3, could have been #1. How far will he slide, if he gets to us, surely we take the risk. Love what Stephens offers, not dissimilar to O'Brien, but projects as a more offensive weapon rather than the rounded/balanced LOB. Pace and precision, just what we need, and another leftie won't go astray (pleased to see some effective use of his right foot as well). The "back up", Robertson, I see as a failsafe mid, tough, prolific, both distributor and defensive minded. A simple no risk option. Do we have enough developing young mids or is it a case or can't get enough of a good thing. Anyway, three great options.

If we pick swap, what players enter the discussions? As mentioned earlier in the thread "Kossie" Pickett is likely to struggle to get to #43. I love his highlights and rate him a great bet to "make it". Surely if the opportunity arises, we take the opportunity to use Eddie as a hands on mentor. If we can draft our small forward, it prevents a future "dance" with the Swans over Papley, allowing for draft currency for a mature mid or even an unlikely hail Mary for Grundy in free agency. A pick in the late 20's or 30's surely gives a significant chance of Pickett lasting to us.

The likes of Cooper Stephens, tough midfielder, who has had some time off half back (underage) missed most of the season with a broken leg. Tested brilliantly at the combine, particularly on endurance after missing the back half of the year. This projects massive upside to me. FWIW, there was a post last year of someone in the know with Stephens suggesting our recruiters had shown interest in his underage year. Arrow's Trent Rivers may bolt up the draft, but most likely a late first. Bit of a mystery where Cody Weightman is taken, some rumours have him in the top 10, but highly unlikely for a small forward in my eyes. Who else in 20's and 30's the athleticism and all round midfield abilities of Sam Philp, defensive and rebounding Brock Smith, a chance mercurial forward Elijah Taylor gets to the second round. Jimmae's man Jeremy Sharp also enters calculations, however, there are persistent rumours the dual All-Australian WA boy was "tanking" pre draft to slip from the first round and stay at home. A few other names I like, but can't list them all.

I like Josh D'Intinosante (small forward/mid) at a later pick and would love the club to take Kye Quirk with our rookie spot or even a late pick. Some excellent gamers at the Northern Blues as a skilful and rounder defender come mid with a hard edge. Would do his grand father proud. I also would be more than happy if the club chose to reward Sam Fisher or Frank Anderson with a spot as well (the Deluca pick was baffling)

 

[HARKER]

Gryan Miers was taken at pick #57 and given the opening for his spot and being granted the opportunity, is now a best 22 player for a strong club.

Charlie Constable though, who most would have rated much higher and taken in the same draft, can't get a look in thanks to the strong GFC midfield.
That may change now having lost Kelly, but opportunity can be a wonderful thing.

Bonar was taken at pick #11 in the draft also, but was unloaded cheaply and is now playing for another club, thanks for the lack of opportunity at GWS.


I don't know enough about this draft, but should our turn to pick come about and the player/s we want aren't there, we may well sell that #9 off for a couple of good seconds, where we can take two players we need as against one player that may have been seen to be superior.

 

[gandaal]

Other than Lloyd claiming Brodie Smith left Adelaide this is actually not a bad intro to the potential top 10.