List Mgmt. Carlton's 2019 Draft Thread

[Wickzki]

Can I assume he has “sticky hands”??

Lot's of buzz about this kid.

 

[rog1995]

Need to interpret KM's ratings with a filter, essentially the inverse of whatever he specifies is the likely true long-term result.

Same guy that didn't rate Mckay, Cunners, Tdk, Stocker?? Pretty much whoever we draft.

 

[Funk]

So speed and footskills as a priority? That was our glaring needs after all

Not concerned with the perceived notion of needing small forwards

Wonder if this was SOS objective or Teague’s request?

Or combination of both?

 

[Funk]

Now we used 2 rookie spots, we are full.

Need an LTI or retirement to free up another spot ( touch wood!!!!!)

Surely Kemp goes immediately onto LTI list.

 

[rog1995]

You mean the bloke who still thinks Smith will be a better player than Walsh, and thought SOS was daft for trading in Stocker. Who give a fu** what that hack thinks.

Oh he also said Lukosious was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Wasn't talking about Dow, who will be better after the hip issue he had last year

The likes of Fisher, Cunners, Walsh, Martin, Newnes LOB, Ramsey, Honey, Gibbons, Cottrell, will help with spread

Yeh I know, I was implying Dow adds speed but not spread. Walsh doesn’t add great speed but great spread. It seems the guys we picked up are more in Dow’s mould

 

[The Bighouse]

Surely Kemp goes immediately onto LTI list.

LTI only allows for a Cat B to play now.
Don’t think we’ll completely write off his season, need to offer some incentive in rehab.
SSP would require a full season write-off for someone, or a retirement.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Yeh I know, I was implying Dow adds speed but not spread. Walsh doesn’t add great speed but great spread. It seems the guys we picked up are more in Dow’s mould

I reckon Honey's more your spread type

 

[Jeremias]

Don’t think we’ll completely write off his season, need to offer some incentive in rehab.

In reality I doubt this would come into consideration. But you're right about the LTI rules.

 

[CJMB]

Surely Kemp goes immediately onto LTI list.

He did it in July, no reason he couldn't be back for the last 5 or so games of 2020.

Even if his timeline is looking more like round 22, I'd be tempted to keep him off the LTI list to give him something to work for, aim for at least 1 game before hitting the ground running into the next preseason (then 2021 rising star?...)

 

[slashin_velvet]

He did it in July, no reason he couldn't be back for the last 5 or so games of 2020.

Even if his timeline is looking more like round 22, I'd be tempted to keep him off the LTI list to give him something to work for, aim for at least 1 game before hitting the ground running into the next preseason (then 2021 rising star?...)

Can an LTI player be selected for VFL games?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I reckon Honey's more your spread type

I do too but the first three guys we took in the ND, none are known for that. They are inside mids, which might be what we needed after already picking up Newnes and Martin this year. Also players can obviously develop so we would be working on that With them

 

[The Bighouse]

In reality I doubt this would come into consideration. But you're right about the LTI rules.

There’s certainly no harm in it, as that gives Owies a chance to break through for a game, if his form warrants.
Just take Kemp off the LTI when his return is nearing ~June/July, if all goes to plan.

 

[LemmingMaster]

TerryWallet The Smoking Gun Arr0w LemmingMaster as our avid U18 watchers I’m really interested in your post draft thoughts (if you don’t mind) on the Philp selection/Robertson non-selection at that pick.

Personally I would have taken Robertson 10/10 times (plus a few others) over Philp, but this is where the pro’s earn their money and you have to trust your draft board.

That speed of Philp really is something though, cant wait to see him in a professional program.

Walking into this draft with pick 11, I was completely unsure about who I wanted with our first pick.

There were a number of trains of thought and getting our hands on Young was going to be my preferred option.
With a little more thought, I would not have been upset with getting our hands on Stephens.
Those two options ended up not occurring with the trade with Adelaide looking like a price too high.

Now we have an option of Flanders v Kemp in my mind. Those would have been the two players I would be considering at that pick.
Carlton nominated Kemp as the player they wanted.

Obviously Carlton did their research and rolled the dice on the ability to gain their preferred option (Kemp) with pick 17 and gain access to another player with pick 22. Master stroke of a trade in many regards, getting the player we wanted and getting back into the early second round.

We obviously then upgraded pick 22 to 20 with the loss of a pick we did not plan on using.

I am assuming the trade was to make 100% sure we got the player we wanted, with someone suggesting it opens up future trade options because we had two first round picks in this draft. Part of me would have liked to listen to some offers coming over night with regards to pick 22, who knows what we may have got, but the potential of losing Philp was too big a risk in Carlton's eyes it seems.

With pick 20 - I probably would have personally picked Rivers. (This is a biased selection because I've seen and know a LOT more about him than I did about Philp)

With the selection of Philp, I completely understand the rationale. It is rare that you get an inside midfielder with a combination of his speed and tank. Dangerfield levels of speed is handy. Robertson has the inside game and will run through a brick wall for his team mates, but his kicking is the question mark. Rivers is a very solid player but maybe not the burst of speed required for Carlton. So while I personally would have picked another player, I understand the selection. (I would have even strongly considered Taylor as well, I think he is going to be a dangarous small forward, but maybe Martin fills that need)

Pick 47 Sam Ramsey
Once again this is a selection that I understand the merit, but I did not get to see Ramsey with the midfield shift, so you back in the recruiters with a lot more information than myself. I would have personally picked Trey Ruscoe, but he does have elements of Kemp, so I can understand them not heading down that path. Ruscoe for me has midfield potential that can play in the back half or move forward, has an elite tank, great footskills and can take a mark. If you view him as a defender, he is a little short and maybe does not have the closing speed required, but I love him as an option.

Rookie pick

I LOVE the Phillips selection, I rated him highly. Certainly no complaints with regards to his selection and the other player instead of Honey may have been O'Neill, but I am not massively sold on O'Neill, so Honey hopefully J is correct in his love for him.

Kemp, Rivers, Ruscoe, Phillips and O'Neill would have been roughly my picks, but I completely understand our thoughts.

The more I hear about Philp, the more excited I am becoming, I hope he starts as a Taranto styled midfielder that plays forward and over time increases his midfield rotations.

 

[footyfan1978]

I missed today's draft.
Can someone that paid close attention tell me what type of players Honey and Phillips are that we got in rookie draft.
Smalls, talls, forwards, quick etc etc. ??

 

[Arr0w]

Arr0w - I said.....

Sometimes we have to concede that we simply see things differently and maybe...maybe...we're both right to varying degrees and wrong to some degree also.
Nothing has to be black and white but to answer your question and sorry but I have to be on repeat for doing this, as there's no other way.

You said (paraphrasing): At the end of the year we won't be talking about small forwards.
The CFC said: Papley, Betts, Martin and we'll kick the Butler tyres, but it's Papley we really want.

Like I said earlier and many times over (many times) I don't care for the size but the types and for the ability to manufacture goals and all those guys with the exception of Butler to a degree, are capable of that.
i.e Papley would have been a better bet than Gibbons. Martin is a better bet than Polson. Betts is a better bet than ECurnow. The forward starting grid next year will be better than the starting grid this year....without a doubt.
Not getting Papley didn't have any effect on attaining Betts & Martin. all three would have been at the club should have everything gone to plan.

Re Newnes: Not every player we bring to the club can be a forward-of-centre player. Not sure why Newnes would even come into the discussion.

Why didn't we draft one? One what? A small forward?
Like I said again: I don't care for the size of the player but for types that play their roles in the forward line and can manufacture goals.
I wouldn't say no to Stephenson, Rozee etc just because they don't fit into a stereotypical box. That would crazy.

We did though draft: (I haven't seen these guys, so feel free to correct me if wrong)
1. Honey - "High half-forward" who kicks around a goal a game.
2. Phillips - "An incredibly talented forward with high upside" who kicks around 1.2 goals a game.

We did target types. This is what I see and why i like it and if they fail - At least we tried and backed our development team to make good.

What is crazy to me is to load up on the same types just because they're seen to be the better player and especially so deeper in drafts and rookie drafts.
Some may be disappointed that we didn't get Roberston or Rivers or Gould or....etc. I don't care. I'm happy that we addressed need in the main.

Harks, we have a host of players that could manufacture goals, evident by the 2nd half of the season, we have now added to that group

What we lacked were players that contributed to quality inside 50 entries, specifically through line breakers and ball users, this too has been addressed

My narrative hasn't changed around small forwards, which I believe will become more evident next year

Happy to discuss it once again end of 2020

 

[Arr0w]

Wonder if this was SOS objective or Teague’s request?

Or combination of both?

Likely both

 

[Graffy4242]

I know this Draft/Trade period has been ok, but surely it doesn't top the Bootsma year.........

 

[Arr0w]

Yeh I know, I was implying Dow adds speed but not spread. Walsh doesn’t add great speed but great spread. It seems the guys we picked up are more in Dow’s mould

I disagree, while they are similar, all have better disposal than Dow, all play 2nd/3rd positions

 

[HARKER]

Harks, we have a host of players that could manufacture goals, evident by the 2nd half of the season, we have now added to that group

What we lacked were players that contributed to quality inside 50 entries, specifically through line breakers and ball users, this too has been addressed
My narrative hasn't changed around small forwards, which I believe will become more evident next year

Happy to discuss it once again end of 2020

No we haven't. Teague was onto it early in the year, when he regrettably announced that we're looking....looking for small forwards.
His hands were tied and he looked somewhat despondent knowing he had little to work with.

Outside our tall forwards, the next best goal-kicker was Cripps with 13....Cripps.
Where were our dangerous small and mids? Nowhere, because we didn't have any, but we tried getting them.

If Betts and Martin don't kick more than 13 goals each this year......Let's go again.....If Betts and Martin don'k kick more than 31 goals each next year.....I'll.....

I can't change your mind, but the evidence should say something.

 

[ferrisb]

Rookie draft is the place to find forwards - AMT, Charlie Cameron, Tom Papley - all rookie draft. Eddie Betts - PSD

Martin - PSD

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I disagree, while they are similar, all have better disposal than Dow, all play 2nd/3rd positions

All much better uses which was my big take away from our draft. Kemp yes but Philp and Ramsay from everything I’ve seen don’t even get a look in at being drafted outside of being inside midfielders.

 

[The Dominator7]

Walking into this draft with pick 11, I was completely unsure about who I wanted with our first pick.

There were a number of trains of thought and getting our hands on Young was going to be my preferred option.
With a little more thought, I would not have been upset with getting our hands on Stephens.
Those two options ended up not occurring with the trade with Adelaide looking like a price too high.

Now we have an option of Flanders v Kemp in my mind. Those would have been the two players I would be considering at that pick.
Carlton nominated Kemp as the player they wanted.

Obviously Carlton did their research and rolled the dice on the ability to gain their preferred option (Kemp) with pick 17 and gain access to another player with pick 22. Master stroke of a trade in many regards, getting the player we wanted and getting back into the early second round.

We obviously then upgraded pick 22 to 20 with the loss of a pick we did not plan on using.

I am assuming the trade was to make 100% sure we got the player we wanted, with someone suggesting it opens up future trade options because we had two first round picks in this draft. Part of me would have liked to listen to some offers coming over night with regards to pick 22, who knows what we may have got, but the potential of losing Philp was too big a risk in Carlton's eyes it seems.

With pick 20 - I probably would have personally picked Rivers. (This is a biased selection because I've seen and know a LOT more about him than I did about Philp)

With the selection of Philp, I completely understand the rationale. It is rare that you get an inside midfielder with a combination of his speed and tank. Dangerfield levels of speed is handy. Robertson has the inside game and will run through a brick wall for his team mates, but his kicking is the question mark. Rivers is a very solid player but maybe not the burst of speed required for Carlton. So while I personally would have picked another player, I understand the selection. (I would have even strongly considered Taylor as well, I think he is going to be a dangarous small forward, but maybe Martin fills that need)

Pick 47 Sam Ramsey
Once again this is a selection that I understand the merit, but I did not get to see Ramsey with the midfield shift, so you back in the recruiters with a lot more information than myself. I would have personally picked Trey Ruscoe, but he does have elements of Kemp, so I can understand them not heading down that path. Ruscoe for me has midfield potential that can play in the back half or move forward, has an elite tank, great footskills and can take a mark. If you view him as a defender, he is a little short and maybe does not have the closing speed required, but I love him as an option.

Rookie pick

I LOVE the Phillips selection, I rated him highly. Certainly no complaints with regards to his selection and the other player instead of Honey may have been O'Neill, but I am not massively sold on O'Neill, so Honey hopefully J is correct in his love for him.

Kemp, Rivers, Ruscoe, Phillips and O'Neill would have been roughly my picks, but I completely understand our thoughts.

The more I hear about Philp, the more excited I am becoming, I hope he starts as a Taranto styled midfielder that plays forward and over time increases his midfield rotations.

Thanks Lemming, appreciate the thoughts. His speed (not just burst) really is something uncommon for an inside mid.

They’re all stars at this time of year, can’t wait to read some track reports on all our draftees from our Vic brethren...get down there peeps!!!

 

[Arr0w]

No we haven't. Teague was onto it early in the year, when he regrettably announced that we're looking....looking for small forwards.
His hands were tied and he looked somewhat despondent knowing he had little to work with.

Outside our tall forwards, the next best goal-kicker was Cripps with 13....Cripps.
Where were our dangerous small and mids? Nowhere, because we didn't have any, but we tried getting them.

If Betts and Martin don't kick more than 13 goals each this year......Let's go again.....If Betts and Martin don'k kick more than 31 goals each next year.....I'll.....

I can't change your mind, but the evidence should say something.

Harks I really don't care who kicks the goals, who wins the possession count or gets brownlow votes

The evidence is clear, Tigers leading goal kickers were 2 KPF's and a resting bull mid, let that sink in

Stop listening to what people say, Teague, Liddle even the likes of me, the evidence is in who we gained

Not a single longterm small forward, they are the facts. I don't need anyone to change my mind and I am satisfied the club addressed the types I saw as a need

Let's take this up again end of next year

 

[JuddgementDay]

Jeremias can you please give your thoughts/ descriptions on philp & honey?