List Mgmt. Carlton's 2020 Draft Thread

[BlueZombie]

I'd wager Taranto would cost more than pick 7, so if he requested a trade to us I'd assume we'd trade 7 and * to Geelong for their two firsts, use one of those firsts and a future first/second (whatever is required) on Taranto, whilst still keeping a first round selection this year.

We might use 7 to pick Bruhn, but I would be shocked to see Phillips still on the board at 7. Seen by most as a top 3 prospect with JUH and McDonald.

Agree. Taranto would cost 7 this year plus next year's first at least.

 

[Tim H]

Losing your job over that/those comments without a chance to give context or explain what you meant, is excessive imo. Was not the best choice of words.

The story is a bit strange, as to why it took so long for the comments to come out or be shared at all.

Sorry but no excuses for racisim, not context, not timing.

 

[DangerousD]

Sorry but no excuses for racisim, not context, not timing.

What do you think is racist about it? Or what part was the bit someone should lose their job over?

I had a look at the articles and quotes and I’m not seeing the gravity.

After reading, it seemed that Randall was pushing for change that would have benefited indigenous players, he and Mifsud had agreed there was a problem and discussed ways to fix it.

If things don’t change, people will stop drafting indigenous kids as it will be too risky

If the data suggested that the above were true, you need to be able to discus it and fix it, without being called a racist.

 

[Jimmae]

Laughable opinions on here. Perspective, the vision you watched was his underage year, they haven't bloody played this year. Over a year of development
in his most formative years since already. Will need two years.

Incredible that you assume I don't realise this, and that I've never seen an underager playing U18s football. He's Tim English levels of skinny, and unlike Tim he will have to cop plenty of hits standing under the ball.

The only way the kid meets your timeline is if he's put on about 7-8 kilos in the past 6 months.

How long does Jones (and Levi) have left. Everyone still sprouting on needs, our biggest need
to plan for is this KPD unless we are relying on two games a year from Macreadie or undersized Marchy to man the Kings and Charlie Dixon. Will take a
couple of years, but would rather a quality player than a stop gap journeyman down the track.

You're not just preaching to the choir here, you're preaching to the conductor. I've wanted us to take a KPD for some time until BSOS came in the door, and I've already stated that in the last 6 months that we'll need to seek one out.

Just not interested in use our first rounder on it unless they are super athletic, which this kid is not.

 

[thylacine60]

What do you think is racist about it? Or what part was the bit someone should lose their job over?

I had a look at the articles and quotes and I’m not seeing the gravity.

After reading, it seemed that Randall was pushing for change that would have benefited indigenous players, he and Mifsud had agreed there was a problem and discussed ways to fix it.

If things don’t change, people will stop drafting indigenous kids as it will be too risky

If the data suggested that the above were true, you need to be able to discus it and fix it, without being called a racist.

written, spoken & authorised by a non-indigenous person - you don't get to say what effect that shit has on aboriginal people cause basically, you have no idea

 

[Tim H]

If things don’t change, people will stop drafting indigenous kids as it will be too risky

No.
But might stop hiring people with out dated racist views.

 

[Tim H]

What do you think is racist about it?

If you don't already know no amount of explaining will help.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Look we recruit the player and then in our case try and develop. Skin colour is irrelevant.

 

[katmanblue]

written, spoken & authorised by a non-indigenous person - you don't get to say what effect that sh*t has on aboriginal people cause basically, you have no idea

So he should not try to understand?

Gotta be able to ask questions before you can understand.

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[juzz88]

I somehow missed this whole Rendell thing in 2012, so I've been googling it for the last few minutes. Apologies if my ignorance has missed the point.

If (keyword being "if" - I don't know the bloke from a bar of soap, so I'm not defending him, just hypothesising) Rendell was trying to help aboriginal players, the mistake he made was using aboriginal players as an example, when he said that some players don't handle the pressure of AFL footy. Because, obviously, this is true for players of all backgrounds.

He should have just said, "some players don't handle the pressure of AFL footy, how do we fix it? What seems to be the root cause of it? Is it lack of education? Being from a broken home?", etc. Because, again, these are obviously potential reasons for players of all backgrounds.

As soon as you single out aboriginal players, it's easy to interpret it as racist, whether he meant it that way, or not.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Just on pick on J U-H being rated pick 1.
Won't the Bulldogs be stretched to match that?

 

[DangerousD]

written, spoken & authorised by a non-indigenous person - you don't get to say what effect that sh*t has on aboriginal people cause basically, you have no idea

Of course I have no idea and I never said that I did know the level of effect the comments had on anybody.

Rendall spoke about that being the most upsetting thing about the situation, not losing the job, but all the indigenous players he’s worked with, thinking he’s racist.

I said that I don’t see the gravity, and the replies from yourself and Tim are great examples of why many people shy away from even discussing important issues like this.

Neither of you tried to give a educated answer and both went down the same road as, you have no idea, if you can’t see it I can’t help you, you don’t know shit.

Someone who was pushing to make positive change, that would help indigenous kids get drafted, shouldn’t be sacked due to using one poor sentence in a long conversation. It’s also disappointing that Rendall in this Instance said he was denied the chance to clarify his comments and apologies.

 

[The Smoking Gun]

Late first do you think? I'm warming towards trading 7 to Geelong for their two firsts, using one of them on mystery player x (Wines, Merrett, whoever we're linked with come trade week) and the other on Cox.

I still really, really like DGB though and feel like he's the much safer pick. I'm happy rolling the dice on Cox at this stage though.

You need to be very careful what you ask for when flinging around half-arsed wish lists.

For example, let's just say the Doggies want to offload their 1st Round Pick this year for our 2021 1st Rounder. As the ladder currently sits that would be Pick 12, but you need to factor in the following:

1. Suns AFL Charity Pick (traded to Cats) pushes that out to Pick 13.
2. Dogs having to match bid on JUH pushes that out to Pick 14.
3. Paying Williams $750k/yr probably means Level 1 compo which pushes that out to Pick 15.
4. Pies will match bid on NGA McInnes which pushes that out to Pick 16.
5. Swans will match bid on Campbell which pushes that out to Pick 17.

That nice mid 1st Rounder the Doggies had has now almost been pushed out to an early 2nd Rounder. This scenario assumes that there will be no further matching of bids on F/S, NGA or Academy selections before Pick 12. It also assumes that there will be no more level 1 Free Agency Picks awarded to teams who finish below the Doggies. It also assumes that the Doggies finish no higher than 7th.

Are we starting to get the picture about where those two Cats Picks are likely to end up???. Essentially they'll be Picks in the twenties equivalent to early 2nd Rounders. Given that there will be matched bids on Campbell & JUH the simple reality is that Pick 7 will most likely end up being Pick 9. Our 2nd Rounder, currently Pick 27 is likely to end up being in the 35-40 range with this draft being so compromised.

Are we any chance to draft Tanner Burhn?

I hope not.......and not because the kid can't play. Bruhn did an ACL in his underage year and then had to undergo surgery again on the same knee to repair a damaged meniscus at the start of this year. Essentially you'd be relying on U16 form to justify his selection. We strapped on Kemp last year who'd just done an ACL and is still yet to play, so I'd rather see how that experiment goes first before strapping on another with similar issues. The other thing I'm mindful of is that we have an injury-plagued playing list as it is without going out of our way to add to it.

 

[HARKER]

Are we starting to get the picture about where those two Cats Picks are likely to end up???. Essentially they'll be Picks in the twenties equivalent to early 2nd Rounders. Given that there will be matched bids on Campbell & JUH the simple reality is that Pick 7 will most likely end up being Pick 9. Our 2nd Rounder, currently Pick 27 is likely to end up being in the 35-40 range with this draft being so compromised.


I hope not.......and not because the kid can't play. Bruhn did an ACL in his underage year and then had to undergo surgery again on the same knee to repair a damaged meniscus at the start of this year. Essentially you'd be relying on U16 form to justify his selection. We strapped on Kemp last year who'd just done an ACL and is still yet to play, so I'd rather see how that experiment goes first before strapping on another with similar issues. The other thing I'm mindful of is that we have an injury-plagued playing list as it is without going out of our way to add to it.

That won't matter at all, as clubs would factor into account the live picks only, with the FS/s/NGA's inked in red and sprinkled amongst the picks.
The number doesn't matter...the player does and if there's quality that will now show up in the 20's and not the teens....so what?

If we do find a way of getting our hands on to two later firsts, every club will know exactly what they may have in front of them, just like 2015 when 5 Academy players went before pick #18 an 2016 when 4 players went before #20.

It may not look as sexy, but it will still be deemed a first rounder......if that's somehow important to anyone.

 

[The Smoking Gun]

That won't matter at all, as clubs would factor into account the live picks only, with the FS/s/NGA's inked in red and sprinkled amongst the picks.
The number doesn't matter...the player does and if there's quality that will now show up in the 20's and not the teens....so what?

If we do find a way of getting our hands on to two later firsts, every club will know exactly what they may have in front of them, just like 2015 when 5 Academy players went before pick #18 an 2016 when 4 players went before #20.

It may not look as sexy, but it will still be deemed a first rounder......if that's somehow important to anyone.

That's your opinion H, not mine. This is the 2020 Draft, not 2015 Draft. We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[HARKER]

That's your opinion H, not mine. This is the 2020 Draft, not 2015 Draft. We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

It's not a matter of disagreeing, as I only presented facts; Clubs would look at players not numbers in this situation.

Everyone knows what won't be on the table. There is no mystery attached here at all.
The only thing that would get in the way would be compensation picks and if four or five were to be handed out, the landscape changes.
If Williams, Cameron, Viney, BCrouch and Daniher all leave and its fist round compos all round....things become vastly different, but everyone will know this before the end of the trade period.

I'm not saying this draft isn't different to previous drafts, as that makes for another discussion, but clubs do know what they're in for.
I am saying though that clubs won't be factoring in players they won't get, in any meaningful way.

 

[The Smoking Gun]

It's not a matter of disagreeing, as I only presented facts; Clubs would look at players not numbers in this situation.

Everyone knows what won't be on the table. There is no mystery attached here at all.
The only thing that would get in the way would be compensation picks and if four or five were to be handed out, the landscape changes.
If Williams, Cameron, Viney, BCrouch and Daniher all leave and its fist round compos all round....things become vastly different, but everyone will know this before the end of the trade period.

I'm not saying this draft isn't different to previous drafts, as that makes for another discussion, but clubs do know what they're in for.
I am saying though that clubs won't be factoring in players they won't get.

I'm somewhat out of the loop this year (as most of us would be) but a McDonald, Hollands, Phillips, Thilthorpe, Perkins, Bruhn and Macrae etc may not be too far out of the picture for the first few picks.

Good thing we finished just behind GWS though, as they may get their fair share of compo picks with Williams gone and Cameron possibly moving on, also.

Yes, you are obviously out of the loop since you can't decide which side of the fence you want to sit on.

........and for the last time, I've stated my position for retaining Pick 7 as opposed to trading to the Cats for 2 later 1st Round Picks in this draft.


.

 

[HARKER]

Yes, you are obviously out of the loop since you can't decide which side of the fence you want to sit on.
........and for the last time, I've stated my position for retaining Pick 7 as opposed to trading to the Cats for 2 later 1st Round Picks in this draft.

You're speaking from a Carlton perspective and I'm coming from a general one. I may have misinterpreted your initial post.

I put forward some days ago we should endeavour to swap our first for two later ones and use those picks to attain the players we want. Saad etc. and not to go to the draft with them. That would be crazy, as we don't need any more youth for the sake of it.

Nevertheless recruiters aren't likely to get caught up with players they can't attain and worry about where the number of the player they want, will fall.
That would also be crazy.

 

[Opine]

written, spoken & authorised by a non-indigenous person - you don't get to say what effect that sh*t has on aboriginal people cause basically, you have no idea

Can one of the mods please tell the bloke, above, to take his comments on this issue to SRP.

 

[Opine]

You're speaking from a Carlton perspective and I'm coming from a general one. I may have misinterpreted your initial post.

I put forward some days ago we should endeavour to swap our first for two later ones and use those picks to attain the players we want. Saad etc. and not to go to the draft with them. That would be crazy, as we don't need any more youth for the sake of it.

Nevertheless recruiters aren't likely to get caught up with players they can't attain and worry about where the number of the player they want, will fall.
That would also be crazy.

The first step is to get a player to commit; then, and only then, you might cosider what you’ve proposed. Which I agree with btw.

 

[HARKER]

The first step is to get a player to commit; then, and only then, you might cosider what you’ve proposed. Which I agree with btw.

If what TSG was getting as was for us not to consider trading down, just to go to the draft - 100%...maybe even 101%

To know we could bring in two quality needs-players though. I'd well and truly consider it.
i.e. Lets say Saad and Gresham - Let's do it.

 

[Opine]

If what TSG was getting as was for us not to consider trading down, just to go to the draft - 100%...maybe even 101%

To know we could bring in two quality needs-players though. I'd well and truly consider it.
i.e. Lets say Saad and Gresham - Let's do it.

it would be useful to hear from the club on what it’s LM/draft/recruitment strategy will be from this point on.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

You're speaking from a Carlton perspective and I'm coming from a general one. I may have misinterpreted your initial post.

I put forward some days ago we should endeavour to swap our first for two later ones and use those picks to attain the players we want. Saad etc. and not to go to the draft with them. That would be crazy, as we don't need any more youth for the sake of it.

Nevertheless recruiters aren't likely to get caught up with players they can't attain and worry about where the number of the player they want, will fall.
That would also be crazy.

100%. If you look at the draft rankings and just remove the NGA players you get a different perspective on essentially the same outcome.

 

[bmaurizio]

Williams is a fantastic acquisition let‘s complete the deal, all we need now is to add is another Top notch A grade mature midfielder to help out in the engine room, things will change rapidly towards more success and finals.
I’d exchange both 2020 & 21 first rounders and add something if necessary too, a high quality mature, skilled midfielder, no issue with the cost , is what is missing.
If not this year try next year.

 

[HARKER]

it would be useful to hear from the club on what it’s LM/draft/recruitment strategy will be from this point on.

We've heard it and seen it already, reading between the lines.

Our first port of call is to attain the types we need and to again paraphrase Liddle -
1. A line-breaking backman 2. Inside/outside midfielder 3. Smaller goal-kicking forward.

We have one of those now and two more to go.
I don't think we particularly care for this years draft if we get wha we want and if we don't......off to the draft with #7. No harm done.