List Mgmt. Carlton's 2020 Draft Thread

Remove this Banner Ad

Eiffel 65

Premiership Player
Sep 18, 2018
3,061
8,041
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Gryffindor
Hmmm...

See, I don't disagree here overly. What bothers me is the low possession count combined with the low tackle numbers. I get that wasn't his game and that the juniors are not the place to look for defensive footy, but I'd want someone with his pace and power averaging 3-5 tackles a game as a mid/forward in this climate.

We need tacklers around the stoppages, especially on the second and third rings.


As I said, I'm definitely interested, and I absolutely do not want us overpaying for anyone via trade to the extent that we're no longer active in the first round. He looks like a great prospect, and that size coupled with that disposal, pace and balance is very appetizing; some of those breakaways from clearances look like early Judd.

I'm cautious on the basis of that grey area that is that vacant senior year; in that year, he could've found the next level, or he could have discovered alcohol and cigarettes, or he could've become such an intense Mormon that - like Rance - he doesn't commit to footy the same way he would've otherwise.

We'll see.
Defensive pressure is something you can develop quickly in an AFL environment. As you've identified, the key will be understanding his level of motivation and drive.

Clubs have been doing a lot of interviews. I'd back our guys in to assess his commitment levels. If there's genuine buy-in from a player like Perkins, he may be worth the risk. Character assessment is going to be massive in determining this years draft order.

At least from our perspective, there are guys who appear to be around the mark who meet the needs of what we're looking for. Means we're probably not going to be reaching if we do retain our pick in the first round.
 

BigBreakfast

Club Legend
Sep 19, 2019
2,809
4,405
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Lakeshow
Yea, he looks really good. Hopefully he's in the mix with our first pick.

The more footage that becomes available of the top end players in this draft, the keener I am to see us retain the pick.

The top end of this draft looks very impressive.

Every year we fall in love with this kid and that kid. We have plenty of kids, draft if no trade options present. Kemp is effectively a 1st rounder for us in 2021 and a bloody good one.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

DangerousD

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2015
7,177
9,858
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Arsenal
He looks amazing, until you look at this:

He averages less than 15 possessions as an outside mid/forward, and less than 2 tackles a game.

Now, I'd be the first to say that he's been robbed of his senior year, so he could have come on in spades and put on some weight. He's certainly got acceleration and strength through the hips, he lands like a cat, and is extremely deft by foot. I'd almost say that he'd be a great get if we kept the pick. But there are key discrepancies; if he was doing that 25 times a game, he'd be going at pick 1.
This is something that has been raised in regards to the draft this year and relying on underage form. You’re right, 15 touches doesn’t scream star. So who out there knows what players like Butters, Dursmaa, Walsh, Rowell, Anderson, Smith and Rozee were putting up in their bottom year?

I feel we need some sort of yardstick.
 

FitzroyBlueBagger

FitzroyBlueBagger
Sep 30, 2018
2,952
6,534
Fitzroy
AFL Club
Carlton
This is something that has been raised in regards to the draft this year and relying on underage form. You’re right, 15 touches doesn’t scream star. So who out there knows what players like Butters, Dursmaa, Walsh, Rowell, Anderson, Smith and Rozee were putting up in their bottom year?

I feel we need some sort of yardstick.
Player underage year
Player draft year
These stats don’t include any U18’s championship games...

Zac Butters (Western Jets)
17 games 299 poss 17.5 average
8 games 160 poss 20.0 average

Xavier Duursma (Gippsland Power)
18 games 277 poss 15.3 average
13 games 299 poss 22.8 average

Sam Walsh (Geelong Falcons)
13 games 379 poss 29.1 average
12 games 358 poss 29.8 average

Mathew Rowell (Oakleigh Chargers)
11 games 212 poss 19.2 average
7 games 222 poss 31.7 average

Noah Anderson (Oakleigh Chargers)
10 games 194 poss 19.4 average
7 games 198 poss 28.2 average

Bailey Smith (Sandringham Dragons)
12 games 291 poss 24.2 average
2 games 65 poss 32.5 average
 
Last edited:

Eiffel 65

Premiership Player
Sep 18, 2018
3,061
8,041
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Gryffindor
Player underage year
Player draft year
These stats don’t include any U18’s championship games...

Zac Butters (Western Jets)
17 games 299 poss 17.5 average
8 games 160 poss 20.0 average

Xavier Duursma (Gippsland Power)
18 games 277 poss 15.3 average
13 games 299 poss 22.8 average

Sam Walsh (Geelong Falcons)
13 games 379 poss 29.1 average
12 games 358 poss 29.8 average

Mathew Rowell (Oakleigh Chargers)
11 games 212 poss 19.2 average
7 games 222 poss 31.7 average

Noah Anderson (Oakleigh Chargers)
10 games 194 poss 19.4 average
7 games 198 poss 28.2 average

Bailey Smith (Sandringham Dragons)
12 games 291 poss 24.2 average
2 games 65 poss 32.5 average
Great summary. So his stats are pretty comparable to Butters and Duursma.

If he's as good as Butters, I wouldn't be trading the pick away. Would slot into our team nicely :)
 

FitzroyBlueBagger

FitzroyBlueBagger
Sep 30, 2018
2,952
6,534
Fitzroy
AFL Club
Carlton
Great summary. So his stats are pretty comparable to Butters and Duursma.

If he's as good as Butters, I wouldn't be trading the pick away. Would slot into our team nicely :)
You also got to fact in that he like most underagers they sometimes play a mixture or mainly another flank/wing position, then in their draft year they play a more predominantl position in the midfield so the spike in average possessions is due to that as well...
 

Jimmae

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 4, 2003
15,308
23,097
Earth, near Carlton.
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Tennessee Titans, Tottenham Hotspur
Yea, he looks really good. Hopefully he's in the mix with our first pick.

The more footage that becomes available of the top end players in this draft, the keener I am to see us retain the pick.

The top end of this draft looks very impressive.

No way this kid falls to our pick.

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app
A long time since I have seen a package that impressive. Closest thing I have seen to a junior Dom (albeit not a leftie), stuff Papley. Knew he
was held in high regard, but, just wow. As for not reaching our pick as suggested above, the talls available are going to be snapped up early
along with Hollands, Phillips and academy boy Campbell. JUH, McDonald, Thilthorpe, Grainger-Barass, Hollands, Phillips, Campbell, just has to
last a couple more spots.
I am really not seeing the same player you guys are.

His biomechanics suck, to the point where his burst off the mark is unreliable and his short kicking game looks suspect. Needs a lot of work on balancing out his lower body and core strength so he can graduate from mostly waddling at high speed and the slapstick-style way he throws his heel forward when kicking.
 

Coona Blues

Director of Coaching
Nov 3, 2011
2,812
7,582
Bundaberg, Qld
AFL Club
Carlton
I am really not seeing the same player you guys are.

His biomechanics suck, to the point where his burst off the mark is unreliable and his short kicking game looks suspect. Needs a lot of work on balancing out his lower body and core strength so he can graduate from mostly waddling at high speed and the slapstick-style way he throws his heel forward when kicking.
Speaking of slapstick, that is up there with your Tim Kelly pre draft assessment......
 

TerryWallet

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 27, 2008
12,113
31,357
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
FWIW, first i've seen of Perkins and i'm loathe to go off highlights vids as i prefer gauging overall game impact....but....i like his attributes.

I like his natural body work in the contest, his best kicks were when the goalposts were in his sights(love that, not scared of kicking goals) good in the air and good shrug(strong through hips). Looks a natural player who will translate to playing against the elite men.

Bit of Taranto there. A touch ungainly athletically but something about his attributes.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Jimmae

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 4, 2003
15,308
23,097
Earth, near Carlton.
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Tennessee Titans, Tottenham Hotspur
Speaking of slapstick, that is up there with your Tim Kelly pre draft assessment......
I honestly stand by my point of view on Kelly. Defensively lacking for his perceived value and age.

Outbody him at the contest, and despite great footskills, he doesn't really hurt you the rest of the match.

Weird comparison. Bell was big and raw. Honey looks silky and classy.
Similarities and game style, repeat efforts and overall footy IQ. Honey is definitely an overall upgrade though.
 
Aug 22, 2020
17
15
AFL Club
Carlton
Every year we fall in love with this kid and that kid. We have plenty of kids, draft if no trade options present. Kemp is effectively a 1st rounder for us in 2021 and a bloody good one.
It makes no difference whether they are from the draft or another club but both the club and the fans are too narrow focused. If we don't think we need 'em urgently enough, we don't give them enough attention. There's too many players doing well at other clubs who we were in a position to draft/recruit. We are still looking for the quick fix, even with the 'kids'.
 

BigBreakfast

Club Legend
Sep 19, 2019
2,809
4,405
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Lakeshow
It makes no difference whether they are from the draft or another club but both the club and the fans are too narrow focused. If we don't think we need 'em urgently enough, we don't give them enough attention. There's too many players doing well at other clubs who we were in a position to draft/recruit. We are still looking for the quick fix, even with the 'kids'.
Not sure about narrow focus, any player worth a pinch of s*** has been discussed ad neaseum and every scenario explored by someone or another. Feel free to add to the conversation, and haveca good long read.
 

Eiffel 65

Premiership Player
Sep 18, 2018
3,061
8,041
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Gryffindor
I am really not seeing the same player you guys are.

His biomechanics suck, to the point where his burst off the mark is unreliable and his short kicking game looks suspect. Needs a lot of work on balancing out his lower body and core strength so he can graduate from mostly waddling at high speed and the slapstick-style way he throws his heel forward when kicking.
I'm not an expert on biomechanics so I guess I'll have to take your word on that.

He'll naturally develop a stronger core and greater balance from being in the system full time. There aren't many players that don't.

He looks like a guy who has multiple gears. He can glide at a high speed, but can put the afterburners on if required.
 
Aug 22, 2020
17
15
AFL Club
Carlton
Not sure about narrow focus, any player worth a pinch of s*** has been discussed ad neaseum and every scenario explored by someone or another. Feel free to add to the conversation, and haveca good long read.
I'm talking in terms of the last few years, I haven't been on here much this year. We bring names up and then we go off them the closer we get to trade time, then its all about whatever we need the most. Anyway, I'll go back and have a look for this year.

By the way, since when has 'salt' been a swear word?
 

BigBreakfast

Club Legend
Sep 19, 2019
2,809
4,405
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Lakeshow
I'm talking in terms of the last few years, I haven't been on here much this year. We bring names up and then we go off them the closer we get to trade time, then its all about whatever we need the most. Anyway, I'll go back and have a look for this year.

By the way, since when has 'salt' been a swear word?
Salt, blew it again...
 

Jimmae

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 4, 2003
15,308
23,097
Earth, near Carlton.
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Tennessee Titans, Tottenham Hotspur
I'm not an expert on biomechanics so I guess I'll have to take your word on that.

He'll naturally develop a stronger core and greater balance from being in the system full time. There aren't many players that don't.

He looks like a guy who has multiple gears. He can glide at a high speed, but can put the afterburners on if required.
The problem is he's not hitting that high gear very often, particularly from a standing start. That makes him slow around contests until he can build his body up in those areas (and if he can).
 

DangerousD

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2015
7,177
9,858
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Arsenal
Player underage year
Player draft year
These stats don’t include any U18’s championship games...

Zac Butters (Western Jets)
17 games 299 poss 17.5 average
8 games 160 poss 20.0 average

Xavier Duursma (Gippsland Power)
18 games 277 poss 15.3 average
13 games 299 poss 22.8 average

Sam Walsh (Geelong Falcons)
13 games 379 poss 29.1 average
12 games 358 poss 29.8 average

Mathew Rowell (Oakleigh Chargers)
11 games 212 poss 19.2 average
7 games 222 poss 31.7 average

Noah Anderson (Oakleigh Chargers)
10 games 194 poss 19.4 average
7 games 198 poss 28.2 average

Bailey Smith (Sandringham Dragons)
12 games 291 poss 24.2 average
2 games 65 poss 32.5 average
Thank you for that, it’s good to see. Let’s look at Rowell and Anderson, going off underage numbers, Rowell isn’t going 1 and Anderson isn’t going 2, massive step up from those boys.
 

The Bighouse

Premiership Player
Jun 28, 2009
4,878
5,367
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton

Top Bottom