Carlton's list

[Big Fresh]

Along with the saints their list is in serious trouble going forward, really terribly built.

St Kilda's lack of young KPPs is concerning, but I think their three first round picks from last year are better than any players Carlton have aged 18-24 (bar Menzel maybe). St Kilda and Footscray may both fall short of seriously contending in the future due to a lack of talls, but at least they have quality smalls, unlike Carlton. Worst list in the league easily.

 

[ferrisb]

Delist everyone except for Murphy, Yarran, Judd, Menzel, Buckley, Henderson and Gibbs.

Yep. Cut the whole list bar these 7.

Then keep picking all the way down to round 8 in the draft. Because we have no veterans left, we can also play 2 rookies each match.

By my count, we will have 17 guys playing each game with no rotations against other teams fielding 21+1 with 120 rotations.

Good news is we won't be too much worse than we are at the moment....

 

[what did you say]

St Kilda's lack of young KPPs is concerning, but I think their three first round picks from last year are better than any players Carlton have aged 18-24 (bar Menzel maybe). St Kilda and Footscray may both fall short of seriously contending in the future due to a lack of talls, but at least they have quality smalls, unlike Carlton. Worst list in the league easily.

haha what?? blues may not be setting the world on fire ladder wise but they have fallen just short in most of there defeats an if not for playing to many talls they might of stole more wins,

there list is fine going forward,why do so many people think you need loads of youth playing when stats show in the afl avg players only last 2.5 years on a list ..so a player like white can fill the gap for a year or two till youth pushes him out.. they have three list spots already on there list free thanks to bootsma an Scotland, so will get youth in next year to push out a carrazzo an mclean

 

[etsal1]

Yes, we seriously lack young players coming through (only really have Menz, Docherty, Buckley + developing players in Giles, Graham, Cripps, Holman & Temay) however, we do still have some handy talent in the 23-28 range. Murphy, Gibbs, Yarran, Henderson, Thomas, Walker etc.

That's where we differ from the Saints & Brisbane. Not saying we're any better by any stretch of the imagination - just that our middle aged talent seems to be overlooked easily.

 

[Fadge]

Yes, we seriously lack young players coming through (only really have Menz, Docherty, Buckley + developing players in Giles, Graham, Cripps, Holman & Temay) however, we do still have some handy talent in the 23-28 range. Murphy, Gibbs, Yarran, Henderson, Thomas, Walker etc.

That's where we differ from the Saints & Brisbane. Not saying we're any better by any stretch of the imagination - just that our middle aged talent seems to be overlooked easily.

You're probably right about St. Kilda, but I'll take Leuenberger, Rockliff, Redden, Patful, Hanley and Zorko ahead of Carlton's 'handy mid aged talent' any day of the week.

 

[Big Fresh]

Yes, we seriously lack young players coming through (only really have Menz, Docherty, Buckley + developing players in Giles, Graham, Cripps, Holman & Temay) however, we do still have some handy talent in the 23-28 range. Murphy, Gibbs, Yarran, Henderson, Thomas, Walker etc.

That's where we differ from the Saints & Brisbane. Not saying we're any better by any stretch of the imagination - just that our middle aged talent seems to be overlooked easily.

When you have most of your talented players in the 23-28 range you should be peaking but you're still near the bottom of the ladder. It'll probably get worse before it gets better.

 

[etsal1]

When you have most of your talented players in the 23-28 range you should be peaking but you're still near the bottom of the ladder. It'll probably get worse before it gets better.

Didn't say anything about it getting better etc. I said it's just being overlooked. It's like it's a competition to have the youngest list in the comp.

 

[etsal1]

You're probably right about St. Kilda, but I'll take Leuenberger, Rockliff, Redden, Patful, Hanley and Zorko ahead of Carlton's 'handy mid aged talent' any day of the week.

You would.

 

[Big Fresh]

Didn't say anything about it getting better etc. I said it's just being overlooked. It's like it's a competition to have the youngest list in the comp.

When you're down the bottom your youth/methods of improvement are quite pertinent.

 

[doppleganger]

Yes, we seriously lack young players coming through (only really have Menz, Docherty, Buckley + developing players in Giles, Graham, Cripps, Holman & Temay) however, we do still have some handy talent in the 23-28 range. Murphy, Gibbs, Yarran, Henderson, Thomas, Walker etc.

That's where we differ from the Saints & Brisbane. Not saying we're any better by any stretch of the imagination - just that our middle aged talent seems to be overlooked easily.

The only people overlooking the mid aged players seem to be Carlton fans, the ones who are trying to say the list is in poor shape right NOW.

Carlton should be peaking now, the worry is what happens in a few years as you point out...a serious lack of young players coming through.

The following Carlton players are in the peak age group 23-28 for footballers right NOW

23-Yarran, Bell
24-Casboult, Curnow, Garlett, Henderson, Touhy
25-Robinson, Kreuzer, Gibbs, Everitt, Ellard
26-Murphy, Rowe, White
27-Armfield, Thomas, Warnock
28-Walker, Jamison, McLean

Carlton only have four key older players who are 30+ Judd, Waite, Simpson and Carazzo

Everything should be aligning for Carlton to be peaking right now, hence why MM was bought in.

Yet the majority of players in their peak footballing age have stagnated or regressed under MM and now Carlton look like a bottom four type team.

 

[etsal1]

The only people overlooking the mid aged players seem to be Carlton fans, the ones who are trying to say the list is in poor shape right NOW.

Carlton should be peaking now, the worry is what happens in a few years as you point out...a serious lack of young players coming through.

We peaked in 2011 but it took the ill-informed and incompetent board 2 years too long to figure that out. I know our list is in horrible shape and needs a massive overhaul.
But to say we have the WORST list because we don't have as many kids as St Kilda or another team isn't entirely accurate. There is no use having a team of kids and some 30 year olds with nothing in between.

Separately, a list can have as many under 23 year olds as it wants - quantity doesn't override quality.

 

[master bate]

The only people overlooking the mid aged players seem to be Carlton fans, the ones who are trying to say the list is in poor shape right NOW.

Carlton should be peaking now, the worry is what happens in a few years as you point out...a serious lack of young players coming through.

Look at the talls:
Warnock, Kreuzer, Henderson, Jamison, Waite plus Casboult and Rowe as depth. Have you ever seen a more unreliable bunch of players. Severely injury prone as well.

Then the midfielders:
Judd and Carazzo- injured and old
Murphy and Gibbs - largely failed to step up and claim the mantle as legit A graders
McLean and Robinson - Just battlers who should be picked late in the 22
Curnow and Everitt - Taggers
Thomas - way off his best

What's left is Yarran, Walker, Simpson, Touhy - some decent flankers and then Armfield, Bell, Ellard etc

They might have a core of players 23+ but they aren't any good.

Mick might have been brought in to fix this bunch and turn them from a stagnating 5-10 team in to a top 4 team but the reality is it's just not possible.
I'm pretty sure Buttifant was brought over to hopefully fix the injuries that beset the taller players but that's failed and the Daisy Thomas redemption seems likely to take at least a year which is reasonable.

 

[James44]

Jarrod Waite dropped again.

2nd or third time he has been dropped this year?

The scary thing for Carlton is he is their best KPF.

 

[master bate]

We peaked in 2011 but it took the ill-informed and incompetent board 2 years too long to figure that out. I know our list is in horrible shape and needs a massive overhaul.
But to say we have the WORST list because we don't have as many kids as St Kilda or another team isn't entirely accurate. There is no use having a team of kids and some 30 year olds with nothing in between.

Separately, a list can have as many under 23 year olds as it wants - quantity doesn't override quality.

It's not that you have a worse list than the saints. Just that by the time you overhaul the list what's left might not be much better and in some ways it makes you worse as you are behind in the process. St Kilda have Jack Steven, Delaney, Geary, Ray and Armitage as their nothing in between (reliable players between 23-28).

Say you go hard this year at a rebuild you are going to need to trade a few out for picks as the saints did with McEvoy and Goddard/Dal Santo (who both fetched more than any 28+ for Carlton will).

23-Yarran, Bell
24-Casboult, Curnow, Garlett, Henderson, Touhy
25-Robinson, Kreuzer, Gibbs, Everitt, Ellard
26-Murphy, Rowe, White
27-Armfield, Thomas, Warnock
28-Walker, Jamison, McLean

If you attempt to trade out the players I've italicised in order to fetch some more picks (and I would if I was Carlton) then all of a sudden do you really have much more left than the saints? A slightly better tall and 1 more class mid. Those that I've left in normal font are all what I consider pretty much nothing players. Taggers and honest defenders who probably wont contribute much at all if in really bad sides. Maybe Robinson is better than that and maybe Casboult becomes consistent but I'm not convinced.

 

[doppleganger]

We peaked in 2011 but it took the ill-informed and incompetent board 2 years too long to figure that out. I know our list is in horrible shape and needs a massive overhaul.

It does appear that 2011 was the year that Carlton peaked, but it wasn't the result of players getting old.

It is just that the younger blokes who played well in 2011, haven't improved as expected.

 

[etsal1]

It does appear that 2011 was the year that Carlton peaked, but it wasn't the result of players getting old.

It is just that the younger blokes who played well in 2011, haven't improved as expected.

Didn't say it was because of players getting old. It's because they peaked - in other words the best the talent of this list could do was get to 5th.

 

[etsal1]

Jarrod Waite dropped again.

2nd or third time he has been dropped this year?

The scary thing for Carlton is he is their best KPF.

no he's not.

 

[mike123]

I wonder what goes on in MM's head sometimes. "hmm I've got allot of taggers, I know, i should turn a versatile 190cm+ into a tagger"

 

[etsal1]

I wonder what goes on in MM's head sometimes. "hmm I've got allot of taggers, I know, i should turn a versatile 190cm+ into a tagger"

That only happened when both Carrazzo and Curnow were injured. But good try. And his move failed miserably didn't it. Not like he didn't shut down Sloane, Montagna etc.

 

[mike123]

That only happened when both Carrazzo and Curnow were injured. But good try. And his move failed miserably didn't it. Not like he didn't shut down Sloane, Montagna etc.

He should be shutting down Dangerfield and Stevens instead

 

[etsal1]

He should be shutting down Dangerfield and Stevens instead

Armfield shut down Dangerfield & Steven (no S)

 

[mike123]

Armfield shut down Dangerfield & Steven (no S)

Then don't bother shutting down Montagna and Sloane. 2 taggers is too many.

 

[etsal1]

Then don't bother shutting down Montagna and Sloane. 2 taggers is too many.

seemed to work though.....but I guess you'd know better than a 701 game premiership coach.

 

[a_fighting_fury]

no he's not.

Who would you consider is your best?

 

[etsal1]

Who would you consider is your best?

Henderson. Who is playing injured this year so before anyone replies with 'he's been crap this year' - he really should be out for the rest of the year but we keep playing him injured. The operation he had in January didn't work.