Roast Caroline Wilson's article

[40yearBLUE]

I take it that you mean by this that you are happy with the way the club has been dealing with the issue of alcohol abuse culture in the playing group?

On the whole yes, I would say they (the management) understand the issues, accept that player behavior is or should I say was, less than acceptable and have taken necessary steps to rectify the situation. So far.

But there is a bit of a way to go yet. Sacking (trading/delisting) a ring leader (Fev) and another transgressor (Cloke), disciplining recalcitrants, changed behavior consultants, and making all the right noises in the media means so far all the right moves have been made. One would also expect on-going education programs and I would venture to say that a couple of players need to put in blinders this year to hold their spot on the list if they are not to follow Cloke (that was Clokes biggest mistake, he was borderline and transgressed at a crucial moment leaving himself no time to redeem himself and save his spot on the list, Eddie, Hoops and Tex at least have the season ahead).

So yes so far I have no complaints whatsoever with the way the club is handling this ongoing issue. In a year or so we might be able to look back and say our efforts have borne fruit.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Sorry, mate. If she had written the article with one ounce of consideration she might garner some sympathy. But she has basically said that alleged sexual assault or even rape, the assault of a worker simply asking for his pay, and the alleged trafficking of cocaine are far less important problems to our society than public drunkeness.

Bizzare.

I don't get my back up about Carlton, those boys made my blood boil when all this news surfaced - I was so happy to see Fevola gone because unlike a very few of us on here, the clubs pride means more than the next years success. But when some Richmond supporting moron tries to shove it down my throat that Lovett and Stokes are better proponents of a safe society than Betts and Houlihan... Sheesh...

I think she covered off your criticism BTP. She does not say that being drunk in public is a worse offence than Sexual assault or drug trafficking in fact she accepts it might read that way but states that is not her assertion with the quote "This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge, but the Blues' case pointed to a cultural malaise that was already all too evident." So she is acknowledging and heading off the criticism, and asserting the point that those other acts, heinous as they are, are individual actions not part of a group culture. If she was comparing to the group sex rugby league allegations then your point would be well taken and hers not so well but you may have misread her or not fully understood the nuances of her piece.

Whilst I understand people not liking the news or opinion coming from those that at other times have an anti Carlton agenda or are biased to gloss over the short comings in their team, it does not diminish the fact that it was a well written and still pertinent article and the author is irrelevant if the material is valid.

 

[Jock]

Just ignore the half chewed gumboot.

She lacks credibility - Sponsorship is nailed despite her best efforts to thwart.

That really would have pissed her off - This is her last little swipe for a while.

 

[goreds]

You'd think even Caro can move on from the same rehash re bundled with new words but ultimately no new tricks
The point here is not that this has been written but for the fact it has been written over and over again.

Personally I don't care one way or another, as I have moved on from "that" story.
It just seems that there still is plenty of mileage for any story, Carlton, even if it happens to be a repeat of a repeat of a repeat.

What is wrong with Caro???

To be attacking this issue the day after her beloved Tigers get smashed and after a week when Carlton sign a new sponsor, the lack of punishment on Hurley, smells of muck raking...

Was she under pressure to come up with a decent article because her direct competitors had written superb articles during the week?? Namely Mike Sheehan and Patrick Smith...

With this half baked effort, she has fallen well short of what is expected from the CHIEF FOOTBALL WRITER for THE AGE.

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

I don't condone that our leadership was stupid enough not to ensure all players got privately escorted home after the cruize... but I believe in Judd when he says we don't have a big drinking culture.. in fact we can't hold our grogg for we don't drink it often. I havn't been a big drinker throughout my life and I can tell you.... one glass of wine can knock me out. Although when I was about 22/23 I had a few weekends where I had a few and I trained my system to be able to handle whole bottles of tequila/vodka without being tipsy.

I'm sorry, but that must be quoted for sheer hilarity. So the problem is that Carlton aren't drinking enough?

My view on this is as follows. The problem is not overall consumption of alcohol in itself. Everyone has had a few occasions in life when they have gotten utterly blind, and I don't think it is realistic to expect footballers to differ on this point.

The point is though, if you are going to get blitzed and are in the public eye, its incumbent upon the group to keep the most maggoted individuals from doing anything irrevocably silly. This means having the discipline not to get smashed when it is going to affect your work, it means making sure that individuals who are clearly not in a fit state to look after themselves are not left to make their own way home, and it certainly means not pressuring an impressionable kid to drink until comatose.

The big point about all those things, is that it should be the captain who keeps a clear head and pulls people into line when they go too far. Judd has failed miserably in this regard at two clubs, and shows no signs of improving. There have been multiple times where he should have had the balls to stand up and say, okay, thats enough, but either he won't do that or they aren't listening.

Its natural that Carlton fans being defensive about the situation, but its pretty simple really.

1.) If you don't fix the problems there is a risk they have the capacity to hurt your club very very badly down the track. Trust us on this one.

2.) The first step to fixing the problems is to admit there is a problem. What's Chris Judd's view on whether there is a problem again?

3.) Fixing the problem will involve serious investments of time and effort, and deterrent sanctions on wrongdoers which may hurt you in the short term.

If you don't wish to go down the path fair enough, but at the moment you have the media with a massive hardon for you, and apparently a group of players who binge drink and behave like muppets on a regular basis. This will not end well.

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

Whilst I understand people not liking the news or opinion coming from those that at other times have an anti Carlton agenda or are biased to gloss over the short comings in their team, it does not diminish the fact that it was a well written and still pertinent article and the author is irrelevant if the material is valid.

And I think I also haven't made myself clear enough.

For mine, one instance of drug trafficking or of sexual assault (these are obviously alleged) is far worse than an ingrained culture of drinking, that may or may not exist.

This is where she manages to trick people into thinking she may have some ounce of credibility - not saying you were tricked 30YB, rather saying that the tactic of comparing the tangible that is the contrevention of laws to an intangible and a highly subjective idea that is 'culture', is one that permits the reader to see Carlton players as innately bad and as the other players we're referring to as having made mistakes.

As for the article being pertinent - I'm not sure how you figure that?

The issue has been dealt with (very well, in my opinion) yet, instead of focusing on the 'phoenix from the fire' in everyone returning after Christmas with record-setting time trials and record-low skin folds, a new enthusiastic group trying to find its way with few experienced players and no veterans to speak of - she turns to the use of Casboults' name again.

This is where a pig cannot help itself. She has to use an 18-year-old rookie, who she admits by suggesting he was handcuffed, probably didn't want to be in the situation in the first place, in order to give her article some sort of readability. The kids' parents themselves said that the club handled the issue extremely well. (the questioning of Mr. Casboult rather lead me to believe he was somewhat embarrassed in the way his son acted) Wilson, however, cannot help but leech off of an 18 year old kid who did nothing wrong whatsoever - as an example of our poor culture.

She obviously wanted to get under my skin, and she has done so very well.

 

[JuddFevGoal]

I think she covered off your criticism BTP. She does not say that being drunk in public is a worse offence than Sexual assault or drug trafficking in fact she accepts it might read that way but states that is not her assertion with the quote "This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge, but the Blues' case pointed to a cultural malaise that was already all too evident." So she is acknowledging and heading off the criticism, and asserting the point that those other acts, heinous as they are, are individual actions not part of a group culture. If she was comparing to the group sex rugby league allegations then your point would be well taken and hers not so well but you may have misread her or not fully understood the nuances of her piece.

Whilst I understand people not liking the news or opinion coming from those that at other times have an anti Carlton agenda or are biased to gloss over the short comings in their team, it does not diminish the fact that it was a well written and still pertinent article and the author is irrelevant if the material is valid.

But if that's the case then, what do you make of Judd's assertion that the players rarely drink throughout the season, and so can't handle it when they have an off season event?

It hardly suggests a drinking 'culture' just mismanagement of the off season parties. Judd doesn't strike me as the sort of bloke to lie about such things.

This is part of the reason that Judd believes that they won't transgress again.

 

[JuddFevGoal]

And I think I also haven't made myself clear enough.

For mine, one instance of drug trafficking or of sexual assault (these are obviously alleged) are far worse than an ingrained culture of drinking, that may or may not exist.

This is where she manages to trick people into thinking she may have some ounce of credibility - not saying you were tricked 30YB, rather saying that the tactic of comparing the tangible that is the contrevention of laws to an intangible and a highly subjective idea that is 'culture', is one that permits the reader to see Carlton players as innately bad and as the other players we're referring to as having made mistakes.

As for the article being pertinent - I'm not sure how you figure that?

The issue has been dealt with (very well, in my opinion) yet, instead of focusing on the 'phoenix from the fire' in everyone returning after Christmas with record-setting time trials and record-low skin folds, a new enthusiastic group trying to find its way with few experienced players and no veterans to speak of - she turns to the use of Casboults' name again.

This is where a pig cannot help itself. She has to use an 18-year-old rookie, who she admits by suggesting he was handcuffed, probably didn't want to be in the situation in the first place, in order to give her article some sort of readability. The kids' parents themselves said that the club handled the issue extremely well. (the questioning of Mr. Casboult rather lead me to believe he was somewhat embarrassed in the way his son acted) Wilson, however, cannot help but leech off of an 18 year old kid who did nothing wrong whatsoever - as an example of our poor culture.

She obviously wanted to get under my skin, and she has done so very well.

You've put all that very well BTP.

But Caro goes even farther than you've suggested. Not only does she pin the issue on a (tenuous as you suggest) 'cultural' problem to argue the case that it's morally more disturbing that drug trafficking, assault, rape etc. But having awkwardly attempted to damn the entire CFC team, she then launches into 'personal' attack on Judd's leadership, wanting to well and truly have her cake and eat it too.

Judd has surely assumed the responsibilities of a leader in this difficult time. He has written an open letter to irate members, he has talked openly with the press about the problem. He has promised redemption in deeds and not just words.

Now, she's actually managed to twist the argument to take aim at an "individual" (Judd), whilst absolving 3 "individuals" from other clubs, guilty of the disturbing aforementioned crimes, of the severity of their actions.

Writing can be like a conjuring trick sometimes, can't it?

The truth is, journo's like Caro don't have to be all that clever to pull it off, because a large percentage of the readership are waiting for a reason, no matter how half baked, to believe what they want to hear. Namely, that their club isn't so bad, and the Blues have a much worse problem to deal with, and a poor captain.

This from the supporter of a team whose captain started last season by pissing on a police station...

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/tiger-says-sorry-to-police/story-e6frf7kx-1111115881304

Of course, his excuse was that he's not a regular drinker, and this was a 'one-off' event. Sounds kind of familiar doesn't it?

Bring on round 1 is all I can say...

 

[ESKIE]

Reported in the media that Judd helped get the Mars deal over the line,

'Mars was said to have gone cold on a deal last month, but it is understood captain Chris Judd has been involved in some of the discussions '


Is that not leadership, IMO this is what you want from a high profile leader, getting in there, with leadership and negotiation skills....
I believe it;s unfair to dump the booze cruise fall out on Judds leadership...

Go eat a Mars Bar Caro...

 

[RobinVP]

Anyone who has played with a football club from the highest to the lowest level should realise the media "beat up" (well put hoops) about the booze cruise is just way over the top. The best part of playing with a group of mates (apart from winning a flag) is havin a few beers and a bit of fun.

 

[acoreofnavyblue]

Does anyone else notice how they are very selective on the Comments they post at the end of this story. I've submitted lots of comments through various news websites and they never get posted...

The fact that they post a comment from a "carlton supporter" in favour of CW but no other comments is BS really...

 

[Sin City]

I can understand why they don't print my comments, but I'm glad someone there has to read them

 

[Jimthegreat]

Caro actually knows nothing about the game and boosts her profile by character assassination more so than any other journo. That covers for her lack of knowledge about the game, When does she actually discuss the game of football? Never! She doesn't know.

 

[The Toad]

I'm sorry, but that must be quoted for sheer hilarity. So the problem is that Carlton aren't drinking enough?.

He/she never said that. What he/she meant was that we DONT drink that much. Seasoned drinkers can drink a hell of a lot more than part timers. This was a statement highlighting the fact we dont have seasoned drinkers at the club.

My view on this is as follows. The problem is not overall consumption of alcohol in itself. Everyone has had a few occasions in life when they have gotten utterly blind, and I don't think it is realistic to expect footballers to differ on this point.

The point is though, if you are going to get blitzed and are in the public eye, its incumbent upon the group to keep the most maggoted individuals from doing anything irrevocably silly. This means having the discipline not to get smashed when it is going to affect your work, it means making sure that individuals who are clearly not in a fit state to look after themselves are not left to make their own way home, and it certainly means not pressuring an impressionable kid to drink until comatose.

The big point about all those things, is that it should be the captain who keeps a clear head and pulls people into line when they go too far. Judd has failed miserably in this regard at two clubs, and shows no signs of improving. There have been multiple times where he should have had the balls to stand up and say, okay, thats enough, but either he won't do that or they aren't listening.

Its natural that Carlton fans being defensive about the situation, but its pretty simple really.

1.) If you don't fix the problems there is a risk they have the capacity to hurt your club very very badly down the track. Trust us on this one.

2.) The first step to fixing the problems is to admit there is a problem. What's Chris Judd's view on whether there is a problem again?

3.) Fixing the problem will involve serious investments of time and effort, and deterrent sanctions on wrongdoers which may hurt you in the short term.

If you don't wish to go down the path fair enough, but at the moment you have the media with a massive hardon for you, and apparently a group of players who binge drink and behave like muppets on a regular basis. This will not end well.

You use the word problem a lot in this post, what excatly is this problem you speak of? I really hope it's not this apprarent binge drinking cultre tripe I keep hearing about. Because that is a total crock of shit.

 

[HBF]

Whatever takes the focus off her own rabble of a club that is Richmond.

Spot on Chism. She's a disgraceful journo, if you can call her that, and her and Hutchy are ambulance chasers of the highest order. I wonder how many times she'll write about this during the year?

Getting back to Ray McLean, didn't he do some work at St.Kilda and Geelong as well?

 

[WeninRome]

I'm sorry but I see nothing wrong with this article. It is 100% correct.

Judd's off field leadership has not been up to standard so far.

He is paid 1m plus $god knows how much else to not lead us on the field (which he has done 100%) but also lead us off the field and be the face of carlton. So far he has failed to do this.

Judd's off field actics all pre season has been short of what is expected.

-suspended for 3 weeks due to a completely disgraceful act.
-pressure point issue which made the club and himself look like a joke.
-the boat incident.
- brownlow medal night - sending fev home!

Surely Judd know's that there is scrutiny on AFL players and he surely knows that there are vultures out there like carro who pick this stuff apart and not let it die.

Judd has been awesome on the field and has won us several games off his own boat but enough is enough off the field he needs to stand up and if he doesnt we just might lose one of Gibbs, Kruez or Murph in the future as they get sick of the negative headlines.

 

[The Toad]

I'm sorry but I see nothing wrong with this article. It is 100% correct.

Judd's off field leadership has not been up to standard so far.

He is paid 1m plus $god knows how much else to not lead us on the field (which he has done 100%) but also lead us off the field and be the face of carlton. So far he has failed to do this.

Judd's off field actics all pre season has been short of what is expected.

-suspended for 3 weeks due to a completely disgraceful act.
-pressure point issue which made the club and himself look like a joke.
-the boat incident.
- brownlow medal night - sending fev home!

Surely Judd know's that there is scrutiny on AFL players and he surely knows that there are vultures out there like carro who pick this stuff apart and not let it die.

Judd has been awesome on the field and has won us several games off his own boat but enough is enough off the field he needs to stand up and if he doesnt we just might lose one of Gibbs, Kruez or Murph in the future as they get sick of the negative headlines.

Tell me what benefit bringing all this back up again will have? It's obvious she had nothing else to write so she just re-wrote some old and worn out story.

 

[WeninRome]

Tell me what benefit bringing all this back up again will have? It's obvious she had nothing else to write so she just re-wrote some old and worn out story.

The benefit is that no one at the club is obviously putting pressure on him. So now it is out to the public forum. The supporters should be the ones putting pressure on him. He is on notice.

 

[WeninRome]

Also there is not a need for everyone to get so defensive on Judd. He is my favorite player, but I want him/ we need him stop up more so off the field.

 

[The Toad]

Also there is not a need for everyone to get so defensive on Judd. He is my favorite player, but I want him/ we need him stop up more so off the field.

Romesta, My issue is not with article itself, I have not and will not read it. My issue is this bloody story is done and dusted, it's very, VERY old news and there can be no good in bringing it up over and over. FFS let sleeping dogs lie.

I think she (i use the the word she very losely) can see her career slipping away and she needs something to sell a few papers. I mean it's not like there was a football game on last night or anything.

 

[NWTYRX]

Sticks mentioned this article in his speech at the Family Day tonight. Just the mention of her name got a chorus of boos

 

[The Toad]

Sticks mentioned this article in his speech at the Family Day tonight. Just the mention of her name got a chorus of boos

How did it go letters? Many people there?

 

[NWTYRX]

About 5000 people was the rough estimate. And I'll give a short review in the family day thread

 

[mediumsizered]

Caro actually knows nothing about the game and boosts her profile by character assassination more so than any other journo. That covers for her lack of knowledge about the game, When does she actually discuss the game of football? Never! She doesn't know.

You have posted my exact thoughts. What really devalues Caro's articles is that she never seeks to interview those involved to establish the facts (in fact she doesn't interview anyone at all), rather she just states her own opinion, whilst rehashing previous articles.

The likes of Alf Brown & Percy Beames would be turning in their grave if they were to read the stuff that is being passed off as football journalism.

The only thing missing from the crap she wrote was a reference to the fact that Barry Mitchell's office used to be on the opposite side of Princes Park to Denis Pagan's office.

 

[WeninRome]

Romesta, My issue is not with article itself, I have not and will not read it. My issue is this bloody story is done and dusted, it's very, VERY old news and there can be no good in bringing it up over and over. FFS let sleeping dogs lie.

I think she (i use the the word she very losely) can see her career slipping away and she needs something to sell a few papers. I mean it's not like there was a football game on last night or anything.

Toadster, Carro is a vulture and will (like others have mentioned) spark up a story whenever she wants, especially against Carlton, whenever she wants due to her role at the Age.

The battle for our players/club is to act responsibly so that she is unable to take pot shots at our club.

A fly can be a pain in the arse, but if we don't buy fly spray to eradicate the fly, the fly will only get more annoying.