No Opposition Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

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Pweter

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**** sake.

And we get called incompetent. **** these campaigners, time for these jokes to front up or we start threatening law suits. If after 2 ******* years they are still trying to convince someone to be a witness then they can go **** themselves. They have ******* nothing, they know it, we know it.

So ******* angry with this news.
Let's not forget that it's EFC's fault that this dragged out beyond 6 months, hence Paddy wanting out.
 

rines

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I love that the Age is now reporting that Ryder did not 'admit' to taking Thymosin. Ahhh I see.. so all the ex-players are 'cleared' and those who are leaving are 'cleared'.. so if you stay at EFC you must be 'guilty' right...

Funny that news about Winderlich not getting a SCN only came out after a possible trade deal...

I see.
 

rines

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Did anyone admit to taking Thymosin though?

All we know is that "it sounded familiar" but not sure if anyone went "Yep, I took that"
no. not that we know of.

In fact charters is the only one who claims it was even TB4.. and he says Dank 'asked about TB4 dosages, and asked him to source the materials... but Charters does not believe it was given to the players...

it is odd stuff really
 

efcboy

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This is why I am suprised that ASADA is re-issuing the SC's before the completion of the Federal Court. Especially when the next Fed Court hearing is November 10 and there may be no decision on the appeal this year. And this is another reason why i don't understand Hird's appeal.
The only thing ASADA can use to potentially link players to use is their testimony. Hence why Hird is appealing - I don't understand why the club didn't
 

efcboy

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A clause in the contract will over-ride everything - And if the players still want Hird after they are suspended, then say are more stupid, then I can ever imagine.
I'd say its stupid to potentially label the players stupid as they would know a lot more about what occurred than you.
 

rumply

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Should've just taken the original SCNs to the tribunal and pointed out that it was just Lorem ipsum the whole way through.

According to Patrick Smith this morning, the 'new improved' show cause notices will be approx 100 pages long & means that fast tracking this thing will be an impossibility given the tribunal will need to examine each & every notice. Unless of course a deal is cut, which seems unlikely...maybe...
 

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efcboy

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Another unanswered factor is the use of thymomodulin at Melbourne Footu club. Dank must have sourced, procured and possessed the stuff because the Dees version of events have been accepted. The claims from ASADA that there is no purchase trail for thymomodulin highlights that they are either/both full of shit and/or actually have NFI.
Fits the narrative to justify spending millions of tax payers...
 

efcboy

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I love that the Age is now reporting that Ryder did not 'admit' to taking Thymosin. Ahhh I see.. so all the ex-players are 'cleared' and those who are leaving are 'cleared'.. so if you stay at EFC you must be 'guilty' right...

Funny that news about Winderlich not getting a SCN only came out after a possible trade deal...

I see.
When Caro thought Licha was going to be a tiger she had his SC withdrawn....
 

efcboy

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According to Patrick Smith this morning, the 'new improved' show cause notices will be approx 100 pages long & means that fast tracking this thing will be an impossibility given the tribunal will need to examine each & every notice. Unless of course a deal is cut, which seems unlikely...maybe...
Given natural justice has been delayed and denied with multiple leaks surely the lawyers make absolute certain there are zero provisional suspensions. Thinking ASADA threaten provisional suspensions if deals not taken - however I again see no justice in this.
 

rines

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I am starting to wonder whether the club is 'trading' with the few of being covered in the unlikely event of bans.. or to give the players the 'option' of deals.. If you look at our 'possible' doomsday team with the inclusion of Giles, Cooney and Gwilt. Assume that Ryder is traded for #17 and Ambrose is upgrade. Also allow that Raynor could be played off the Rookie List and that Winderlish, Fletcher and Zaka are all 'uneffected' by the SCN's.

That would leave our team:
Back Six: DVU, Fletcher, Hams, Winders, Gwilt, Ashby
Undersized and lacking one tall but Fletcher and Gwilt could work in tandem in the key posts. Experience is there with 3 older guys and Ashby acquitted himself well this year. DVU the weak link but Hams is a hardworking player that should hold down a back pocket if required. 6/10

Forward Six: Chappy, Ambrose, Aylett, Kommer, JD, Fantasia
Other than lacking Carlisle, which EFC played without several times this year, the key talls in Ambrose and JD could work well up front. Ably supported by experienced players Chapman and Kommer. Fantasia showed glimpses in his rookie year to suggest that he can handle AFL level. Goals would be hard to come by, but that was also the case in 2014. 5/10

Midfield: Giles (R), Edwards, Z Merrett, Gleeson, Goddard, Zaka
Young, but highly talented group. Lead by two A graders in Goddard and Zaharakis, this midfield could hold its own against some of the weaker clubs. Edwards was a touted pick up that didn't get a chance in 2014 but has shown enough to suggest he could be a handy player. Gleeson and Z Merrett are youngsters that will be pushing for Midfield spots in any EFC line up for the next five years. Giles acquitted himself in a #1 ruck role before and could do the job again. 8/10

Interchange: Cooney, Raynor, #20, #17
This is where the pain would begin, with no relief for an already undersized team available. Cooney provides a touch of class but the bench would be young and weak outside of him. 2/10

Overall it would be a competitive side that will fall short against most clubs however won't be disgraced entirely. Is every chance of minimising damage to % and maybe even snagging a win if the cards fall right. Overall it would be about a 6/10 team for mine.

Really all that is missing in 2 more KPP. So I am starting to wonder whether the club does have this in the back of their minds.
 

efcboy

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Don't think recruiting has anything to do with potential bans. It was clear as day we need a 3rd defender better than Steinberg given Fletcher's likelihood of only playing 50-75% of games and Pears injury woes. They solve this by bringing in Gwilt. We needed him regardless of any other potential problems.

Cooney is a classy user and could be a handy small forward with bursts in midfield. Is there a need for this? Yep has been for a while now hence they brought in Chappy last year.

If Ryder leaves clearly we need a ruckman so again none of these moves has anything to do with possible suspensions. They are list mgmt moves which would be done any year.
 

lysp

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ASADA’s case is that raw materials for Thymosin Beta-4 imported by Mr Charter from a large Chinese peptide manufacturer were compounded by Mr Alavi and provided to Essendon sports scientist Stephen Dank.
"Essendon sports scientist Stephen Dank"

or is it

"Health clinic operator Stephen Dank who was also hired to consult for EFC".

If EFC was his primary and only job - i can see a possible link. As he has many other businesses on the go at the same time, it's a long bow.
 
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Given natural justice has been delayed and denied with multiple leaks surely the lawyers make absolute certain there are zero provisional suspensions. Thinking ASADA threaten provisional suspensions if deals not taken - however I again see no justice in this.
ASADA can't threaten provisional suspensions. It can be implied, but they can't use it as a threat. Whilst it is the "default" option it is entirely in the hands of the AFL. I don't quite know how the AFL would feel about it, but my gut says that they wouldn't be too keen on allowing provisional suspensions to stand for players who haven't been found guilty given it would wreck games; yet having said that who knows, as one of the concepts behind a provisional suspension is kicking off your penalty at the earliest possible date
 

rines

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"Essendon sports scientist Stephen Dank"

or is it

"Health clinic operator Stephen Dank who was also hired to consult for EFC".

If EFC was his primary and only job - i can see a possible link. As he has many other businesses on the go at the same time, it's a long bow.
This.. Dank was a part time consultant and was working with several other sports teams AND his own businesses at the same time.. hence why you can't say "dank ordered TB4 = must have been for EFC players"

The more that comes out.. the more you read.. the less I think ASADA has a case.. and I think they know it.. hence the stalling and BS media roadshow tactics.

Oh and my 'best 22' and recruiting was tongue in cheek.. I don't think the club are worried about bans at all.. but I was actually pleasantly surprised with the team we can now, potentially, put forward. Probably around 10 of those guys are best 22 irrespective.. and probably another 5-6 that are 'right on the edge' for senior selection... so all good really.

Amazing depth in our list now imho..
 

rines

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ASADA can't threaten provisional suspensions. It can be implied, but they can't use it as a threat. Whilst it is the "default" option it is entirely in the hands of the AFL. I don't quite know how the AFL would feel about it, but my gut says that they wouldn't be too keen on allowing provisional suspensions to stand for players who haven't been found guilty given it would wreck games; yet having said that who knows, as one of the concepts behind a provisional suspension is kicking off your penalty at the earliest possible date
I think the AFL would be leaning towards not having provisional suspensions.. unless the player 'voluntarily' wished to step down. AFL doesn't want their 'product' to be effected.

Also tribunals are meant to be called within 14 days of the entry into ROF.. so should be a fairly quick process.. also you would think that if one gets free then they all do.. and by the same token if one is found guilty.. then the rest will all plead out...
 
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I think the AFL would be leaning towards not having provisional suspensions.. unless the player 'voluntarily' wished to step down. AFL doesn't want their 'product' to be effected.

Also tribunals are meant to be called within 14 days of the entry into ROF.. so should be a fairly quick process.. also you would think that if one gets free then they all do.. and by the same token if one is found guilty.. then the rest will all plead out...
can you provide any source for the 14 day claim, because I'm not aware of it.

Also, I don't see how it's even remotely possible, given that each player is entitled to a separate and individual defence, which is emphasised even more by the apparently tailored SCNs. Keep in mind, many players may use the same legal counsel, and all will need time to prepare. I don't think they can use one result as a precedent for the next.
 

rumply

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can you provide any source for the 14 day claim, because I'm not aware of it.

Also, I don't see how it's even remotely possible, given that each player is entitled to a separate and individual defence, which is emphasised even more by the apparently tailored SCNs. Keep in mind, many players may use the same legal counsel, and all will need time to prepare. I don't think they can use one result as a precedent for the next.

Agree, without deals, 100 page SC notices will ensure this drags on indefinitely
 

cymarak

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It would be a very bad look for the AFL if, say, 34 players were forced to miss games through being provisionally suspended, and those players were then found not guilty at the tribunal.

Whether the AFL decided to enforce provisional suspensions might give us an idea as to the AFL's mindset - if they enforce provisional suspensions it could be taken to mean they expect players to be found guilty and / or they are planning to find the players guilty.
 

scottmclaren

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This is why I am suprised that ASADA is re-issuing the SC's before the completion of the Federal Court. Especially when the next Fed Court hearing is November 10 and there may be no decision on the appeal this year. And this is another reason why i don't understand Hird's appeal.
This is why EFC should have also appealed.

ASADA have stated multiple times that the outcome of the federal court action is inconsequential as they would "simply reissue sc the next day".

They are thunder campaigners that will not find any player guilty and are parading around hoping to just get a deal.

We know Jobe and Timmy Watson didn't want Hird to appeal, but was this because they didn't want the distraction to continue or because they didn't want Hird to get himself sacked. It seems like other players did want him to appeal and didn't want him sacked.

I have no idea whatsoever but I can also speculate that your clause in Hird's 2 year extension does not exist. That Hird simply backed down from his Supreme Court action for a 2 year extension at the same terms.
 

scottmclaren

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It would be a very bad look for the AFL if, say, 34 players were forced to miss games through being provisionally suspended, and those players were then found not guilty at the tribunal.

Whether the AFL decided to enforce provisional suspensions might give us an idea as to the AFL's mindset - if they enforce provisional suspensions it could be taken to mean they expect players to be found guilty and / or they are planning to find the players guilty.
Especially if federal court rules that investigation was unlawful. It does not matter if relief is not granted, this would then put immense pressure on AFL.
 
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