No Opposition Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

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60sbomber

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I found this interesting from the HUN. I thought they'd have to do separate cases. Man it would be nice to win this one if they could:

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If the evidence against the players is similar, they would likely request a single “representative” case be heard, with the league, ASADA and the players to all have lawyers on hand.
No, no, no.
If the cases are all heard as one, then there will be no significant consideration given to the requirement to prove that each individual received TB4.
If ASADA convince the tribunal that TB4 was administered, that is not enough to convict any one individual player.
As Rines and Richard Ings have said many times, they need to establish that each and every individual they accuse had TB4 administered to him.
The 20 vials should not enable them to convict all 34 players en masse.
They need to establish who received what and when. They won't do that in a case where all 34 are heard together.

Secondly, if there is to be a joint case, what was the point of the latest delay, where ASADA have said they were preparing 34 separate SCNs, tailored to each player's circumstances?
 
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No, no, no.
If the cases are all heard as one, then there will be no significant consideration given to the requirement to prove that each individual received TB4.
If ASADA convince the tribunal that TB4 was administered, that is not enough to convict any one individual player.
As Rines and Richard Ings have said many times, they need to establish that each and every individual they accuse had TB4 administered to him.
The 20 vials should not enable them to convict all 34 players en masse.
They need to establish who received what and when. They won't do that in a case where all 34 are heard together.

Secondly, if there is to be a joint case, what was the point of the latest delay, where ASADA have said they were preparing 34 separate SCNs, tailored to each player's circumstances?
the word "if" is pretty significant in that passage.

Don't get your panties in a knot. I don't think the amount of tb4 is all that significant. I think what is significant is that ASADA need to be able to prove the last link of the circumstantial chain, which is heavily dependent on player interviews. I don't think they can do that, and if they can't do it in the representative case, then they can't do it for any case.

I don't think you need to be worried that for some reason the players legal teams won't be as smart as rines and go ahead with a representative case if a key component of their evidence demands they shouldn't
 

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60sbomber

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..... I think what is significant is that ASADA need to be able to prove the last link of the circumstantial chain, which is heavily dependent on player interviews. I don't think they can do that, and if they can't do it in the representative case, then they can't do it for any case.
I am a bit concerned that ASADA can use Dank's thymomodulin spreadsheet to establish which individuals got what. If they first establish that Dank used TB4 and not thymodmodulin, then they can jump straight to the spreadsheet being a record of his use of TB4 for each player.
 

yaco55

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It's pleasing that at this athletes conference, that discussion is being had about the suitability of the WADA code for team based sports. It had to happen.

Show Cause Notices - We can discuss all types of scenarios - But ultimately the AFL is the key player - They insist on provisional suspensions ( like the NRL_ and DEALS will be done.
 

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I am a bit concerned that ASADA can use Dank's thymomodulin spreadsheet to establish which individuals got what. If they first establish that Dank used TB4 and not thymodmodulin, then they can jump straight to the spreadsheet being a record of his use of TB4 for each player.

Which in all likelihood would be circumstantial - Dank hasnt told them, Alavi cannot tell them, Charters (excuse me while I cover my mouth & snigger at the thought of this getting through on his testimony), who/what else could help establish TB4 use?
 

Mercurial89

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It's pleasing that at this athletes conference, that discussion is being had about the suitability of the WADA code for team based sports. It had to happen.

Show Cause Notices - We can discuss all types of scenarios - But ultimately the AFL is the key player - They insist on provisional suspensions ( like the NRL_ and DEALS will be done.
Your entire viewpoint is based on the idea the AFL will want players to miss time, or to have players under its banner marred as drug cheats while the entire time they have said the players were possibly duped and were the victims.

If the AFL play to the script they have followed they wont ban any players no one wants this over more than the AFL. That actually will work in our favour this time.
 

IggypopsTshirt

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If thymomodulin equals TB4 these texts are the most perplexing tidbit released thus far?
image.jpg

Why aren't MFC in the gun?
Why can't ASADA find any evidence of Dank purchasing Thynomodulin?
If Dank was using thymomodulin at MFC while employed by EFC,isn't it possible he was using it at EFC?
 
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yaco55

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Your entire viewpoint is based on the idea the AFL will want players to miss time, or to have players under its banner marred as drug cheats while the entire time they have said the players were possibly duped and were the victims.

If the AFL play to the script they have followed they wont ban any players no one wants this over more than the AFL. That actually will work in our favour this time.
Nothing wrong with my viewpoint - And there is no reason why the AFL won't follow the NRL script - Your last paragraph is a contradiction - The AFL wnats this over so they may find short bans appealing.

The key is commonsense - As Lance so eloquently wrote - The code should only allow provisional suspensions for POSITIVE tests, not where there are no positive test - Commensense is sadly lacking in this situation. And as others have pointed out the WADA code is unsuitable for team based sports.
 

Walesy

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I am a bit concerned that ASADA can use Dank's thymomodulin spreadsheet to establish which individuals got what. If they first establish that Dank used TB4 and not thymodmodulin, then they can jump straight to the spreadsheet being a record of his use of TB4 for each player.
If the club didn't purchase Thymomodulin, then I'm fine with them following the circumstancial link between the two.

However, with Dank plugging the same substance at Melbourne, and them already being off the hook- gives me the belief that the club actually way buying it.

So it should be a simple case of xxx vials of Thymomodulin purchased. Here's the injection schedule for said substances. Injection counts matches the purchase? Yes?

Prove that it wasn't then.

If there were more injections of Thymosis given than purchased though- Then while punishments to the players would be difficult as again, the proof of exact player angle comes into play- but shit, you'd want to clear house if that's what did happen.
 

rines

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before you slay prendergast.. what he was actually saying is that WADA code not suitable for team sports.. because athletes are 'workers' and thus it is the SAME as construction workers told to keep using asbestos.. they have no choice.. they will just go along with the program.

Yes it was a crap analogy and used to 'boost' the view count...

But his point was valid.. that WADA does not fit in team sports.. at all.. ever.
 

Walesy

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Why can't ASADA find any evidence of Dank purchasing Thynomodulin?
If Dank was using thymomodulin at MFC while employed by EFC,isn't it possible he was using it at EFC?
Melbourne were investigated and cleared.

They wouldn't have cleared them unless there was a clear chain in the Thymomodulin. The link is there and found- so long as the doses bought matches the injections.
 

Eleven 38

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If we have a bunch of players missing the first few games I wonder if our draft position would get modified again.

I assume other clubs would sook if we lost the first 4 games because of suspended players and therefore finished 13th instead of 7th, and get a higher pick accordingly.
 

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Melbourne were investigated and cleared.

They wouldn't have cleared them unless there was a clear chain in the Thymomodulin. The link is there and found- so long as the doses bought matches the injections.
Was that the investigation where Andy gave them a tingle and asked if everything was sweet at Demonland and they forgot to mention they'd been consulting with the central figure of the whole debacle? Or the one where the investigative geniuses of ASADA had it tidied up in short order?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/stephen-danks-threat-to-sue-asada/story-fni5f22o-1226693046039


"Invoices for the purchase of Thymomodulin and photographs of a bottle were given to ASADA investigators by at least one Essendon official".
Perhaps that evidence was put in with the James Hird pile, I hear it was labelled "Pesky facts not in line with required narrative and outcomes".
 
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