No Opposition Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

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MiguelM

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Hmmm, not one quote in Caro's story. Flogging a dead horse again with her "opinion"

Interesting that every outside person that comes to the club (Cooney, Gwilt, Craig, Neeld, etc.) cite Hird as part of the reason to come to the club. Seem happy to engage with him.

I just don't see the supposed anti Hird rhetoric from the industry, even from the AFL. I mean Gil said a while back that he will be looking to mend bridges and has now spoken to Hird on a number of occasions. Vlad was the enemy there IMO.
 

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jmoo wan

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it's a bit hard mate. You have to respect the fact it's posted on a private board. Whereas on this board we have a lot of lurking guests (hai guys!!).

I'd love pass it all on but do I have the right to post shit publicly from their private board? I don't believe I do.
You could probably post Bruce's stuff?

He did post the following:

it is not up to me to be smashing the bowlers to the fence, it is up to you Essendon supporters to start putting the pressure on your board, the AFL. You're the ones that have to distribute the material to as many people as you can so as to embarrass the sycophants in the media into finally writing the truth (Chip and a few others excepted). Eventually, the editors at The Age have to ask M/s Wilson why she didn't report on the things that are contained in all the documents I have worked on. I don't have anywhere near the resources that she has available to her. I certainly don't have the AFL ringing me up to tip me off to stories, that's for sure. But somehow, I managed to get all this stuff. Anyway Speedy, it is up to you. If you sent my stuff to enough people, surely they will start asking enough questions to make all the journalists feel uncomfortable about their gross dereliction of their duties to their readers/listeners/viewers. Perhaps they just want to be communications specialists like the ones who work for AFL Media.
 

rumply

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I see ASADA still haven't dealt with the cases of those ex Cronulla players who were left out of the 'sweetheart' deal the others secured, & have been left hanging - It's only their livelihood & preseason's are underway so what the hey, right?. But do we hear outrage about that from the Master's, Smith's & Caro's of this world? Nah, guess there's not enough Big Bad Essendon or #HirdsFault.
 

Smokin

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why waste time with her rubbish articles, when she has one with perhaps a real development.

If you have followed Bruce, with Hardie on twitter - both have suggested that Asada lawyers have told Asada they have no case. Interesting. Bruce went on to suggest Alavi cant really testify as handing out un-labelled viles is against the law/his profession - and charters as we all know probably wont testify as he is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Bruce suggested last Monday the lawyers told them.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/supple...discuss-evidence-dispute-20141128-11wgpo.html

The move came as genuine doubt emerged over whether key witnesses in the case against the players - Shane Charter and Nima Alavi - would agree to appear before the AFL's anti-doping tribunal. It is believed a series of requests from ASADA to both Charter and Alavi have failed to secure their presence as witnesses in the hearing, which is due to start on December 15.
This is the first time a mainstream publication as gone with it - sure no direct quote but where there is smoke there is fire?

Try to prove a circumstantial chain without the 2 key witnesses? Good luck with that.
 

carnthedons

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why waste time with her rubbish articles, when she has one with perhaps a real development.

If you have followed Bruce, with Hardie on twitter - both have suggested that Asada lawyers have told Asada they have no case. Interesting. Bruce went on to suggest Alavi cant really testify as handing out un-labelled viles is against the law/his profession - and charters as we all know probably wont testify as he is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Bruce suggested last Monday the lawyers told them.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/supple...discuss-evidence-dispute-20141128-11wgpo.html



This is the first time a mainstream publication as gone with it - sure no direct quote but where there is smoke there is fire?

Try to prove a circumstantial chain without the 2 key witnesses? Good luck with that.
v. appropriate freudian slip/misspelling
 
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You could probably post Bruce's stuff?
Yep, reading the thread through, Bruce's intention is to get the word out as much as possible.

I guess the only concern would be the parts which were taken directly from the interim report.

There are plenty of other parts though which I think fill in a lot of gaps of what happened for people who only have seen things from the perspective of the AFL's / ASADA's narrative. His sources seem a lot more reliable as well, are directly attributed to the source (in most cases Doc Reid), and seem to be copied and pasted from emails he has received. While I don't think there is anything new there that I haven't seen before, most of it is a more detailed narrative of events then has been published anywhere before. The letter he wrote to Pat smith is a must read.
 

efcboy

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Horribly deceptive article.
Watch the hardcore Hird supporters jump all over him, id only ask that they read the whole thing (its not big) and note that he only holds that view IF players are suspended. Id say hes being quite reasonable.
Nah Daniel Àndrew is another corrupt politician who will only send Victoria backwards
 

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George Washington

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Courtesy of Bruce Francis on BB:

Posted with permission:
Bruce Francis said:
Absolutely. Everything I write carries my name and is okay to publish as wide as possible.
Bruce Francis said:
James Hird’s position on the supplement program:



In May 2011, Essendon chairman, David Evans, chief executive Robson, general manager – football operations, Hamilton, Danny Corcoran, Hird and Mark Thompson decided that Essendon would adopt a more scientific approach to preparation in season 2012.



In October or November 2011, Hird told Dank, Robinson and Dr Reid that any supplement given to players ‘had to be approved by Dr Reid and couldn’t harm the player, and the player had to know what he had been given’.



On, or about, 13 December 2011, Hird had an impromptu chat at the Southport Sheraton Mirage Hotel with Shane Charter and Dank. Charter told ASADA that Dank sought to convince Hird that the use of growth hormones within the AFL was commonplace. Dank then advocated the use of peptides at EFC, claiming they were safe and legal under the World Anti-Doping Code. According to Charter, Hird told Dank that anything used on the Essendon players had to be WADA compliant and approved by Dr Reid



On, or before, 13 January 2012 – Dr Reid became aware that players were being administered peptide Tribulus (oral) and peptide AOD-9604 (injection) without his approval. Dr Reid raised his concerns with Hird about the supplementation program. Hird discussed the matter with Dr Reid and together decided how they would report the matter to ensure both Dank and Robinson complied with his [Reid’s] directive about the supplementation protocols. Hird and Reid decided three things would occur: One, Dr Reid would report the matter to his department head Hamilton. Two, enquiries would be made directly with Dank and Robinson; and third, Dr Reid would write a letter to Hamilton expressing his concerns, and if Hamilton ‘thought it needed to go further, he could take it further up the line of command’.



Shortly after meeting with Hird, Dr Reid spoke to his department head Hamilton about the supplement program. Dr Reid advised Hamilton that he would be writing him a letter outlining his concerns. Hamilton said he immediately raised Dr Reid’s concerns with the Chief Executive Officer Robson. Dr Reid then wrote a letter – which Hird claims not to have seen - as a means of formally documenting the matters they had discussed. From Hird’s perspective, the letter was to be delivered to Hamilton in his capacity as Reid’s department head.



Hird rejected any suggestion that he had instructed or encouraged Robinson to ‘push the edge’. He told ASADA that ‘I have an issue with people who give people illegal products and things that would harm them. My philosophy is as stated there, that any product that goes to a player must not harm them, must be approved by AFL and WADA and the player has to consent to it, and the doctor’s the ultimate final say but – and that was expressed to Dean all the time’.



According to ASADA, Robinson claims to have understood the responsibilities of his role to include the management of the High Performance Department and the oversight of medical staff (doctors and physiotherapists), but not ever take away from their [professional medical] decision making. Stephen Dank, the Club’s Sports Scientist, also reported to Robinson. Although Robinson stated it was part of his charter with Essendon to ‘push the edge’, he understood that this was to occur within WADC guidelines.



Hird claimed he felt sufficiently concerned by Dr Reid’s disclosures that he convened a meeting with Robinson, Dank, Thompson, Reid and Hamilton, where questions were ‘quite aggressively’ put to Dank and Robinson as to why the unauthorised injecting of players had occurred.



Mark McVeigh, a member of the player leadership group, became involved at this stage and subsequently testified to ASADA as follows: ‘So I spoke to Jobe [Watson] and we went up and we asked Jonah [Oliver] to come and take the minutes … and said, “[James] Hird, I reckon it’s important that we have a presentation, that (1) clearly defines what we’re taking; (2) [confirms that] it’s approved by ASADA and WADA and that everything’s above board, and the reasons why you might be given a supplement,” And [James Hird] said, “Yes, that’s very important; let’s get that done.” That was done within two days, and a presentation was provided to us in the auditorium. And that’s when the discussion of the consent forms were discussed in that meeting’.



Hird confirmed his position in respect of Mr Robinson’s proposal via email:

“Sounds good Deano [Robinson], you know my thoughts on supplements.

1. It must not harm the player

2. It must not be illegal (according to WADA and AFL drug guidelines)

3. We must get player consent

As long as we stick to those guidelines and you and Steve [Dank] think it will help us then let’s go for it.”



Between April and August 2012, ‘Suki Hobson told Hird Steve Dank he had some stuff in his fridge he shouldn’t have. She advised Hird to go down and make sure that what he has in his fridge is what he says he has in his fridge.” Hird went [straight] down. “Steve wasn’t there – I went down [again] some time that day to see Steve and said to Steve, “Suki tells me there are things here that shouldn’t be here.” He said, “No, no. No, no, son, it’s – it’s just stuff for Dean [Robinson’s close friend]” and I said, “well get it out of here straight away. I don’t care who it is for, get it out of here.” He said, “I will, son; I’ll get it out of here straight away.” And I know Mark Thompson I know then went down half an hour later and absolutely ripped through him. I reported this to Paul Hamilton



In response to this information Dr Reid convened a meeting between himself, Hird, Thompson, Oliver and Dank. According to Dr Reid, during the meeting Thompson resolutely advised Dank that the injecting of players was to cease:

And I [Reid] can remember Mark Thompson, because [Dank] then did it again, gave some injection to someone and so this might be two weeks later again, and I’ve never heard Mark Thompson yell any louder on the footy field and he screamed at [Dank to stop the injections]’. (915 Dr Reid/ASADA interview 18 February 2012, page 41).



Hird recalled the decision to record Mr Dank’s supplementation of players: ‘We required a database, we wanted things recorded, we wanted to know exactly what was put in place … [and] it was meant to go to Bruce Reid. I don’t know whether it went to Bruce Reid but it was meant to be filled out and given to Bruce Reid … So Dean Wallis was meant to keep a record with respect to – and we subsequently learnt that he has kept a very good record and that was meant to go to Bruce [Reid]



In July 2012, Dr Reid, supported by Corcoran and Hird, asked Evans and Robson to terminate Robinson’s services. Evans and Robson refused on the grounds Essendon couldn’t afford the payout. The Essendon board ratified Evans and Robson’s decision at the august 2012 board meeting.



Let’s not beat around the bush, the Great Sandy Desert, Lake Eyre, the Wimmera – all those bits of Australia for whom you write – here: although it wasn’t his responsibility, and although he had no power or right to intervene, Hird acted very responsibly. Any journalist who didn’t discuss all of the above issues obviously had no intention of being fair to Hird. And really, by now, why would you Pat. He’s already severely embarrassed you by still being there.



It’s not your fault Pat that Hird listened to that Sheedy bloke for all those years – Stand Your Ground. And it wasn’t your fault that Dr Reid was able to help Hird stand his ground. The strategy is simple, when those with something to hide, let’s create a nice little legal term to describe them for future reference, when the Hidees start their favourite bullying tactics, you find a good lawyer, a good court, and a list of subpoenas that reads like a Who’s Who of the AFL. The Hidees then settle, literally and legally. I know this has been long, and hard for you, Pat, but we’re nearly there. Just clutch the ticket to that deserted beach, and bear with me a bit longer. And if you think you might have read some of this before, well that’s okay, Pat, a lot of your readers have read a lot of your stuff more than once before, and you get away with it, so why not me.
 

George Washington

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Fair to say Elizabeth Lukin was an absolute snake. Would not surprise me if Hird was already painted as the scape goat and Elizabeth was sent in to shape the story to achieve that. Telling him to say he accepts ultimate responsibility on day 1? What else could she have been thinking?

Bruce Francis said:
Some events of 2013:

According to Hird, the Essendon media conference on 5 February 2013 was in response to an imminent announcement by the Australian Crime Commission (ACC) regarding the use of performance enhancing substances in sport:

During his interview with ASADA, Hird contextualised the comments made by him during the media conference:



Hird: …There’s two things – two distinct memories I have: Firstly, I wanted to talk about the fact – I wanted to say that we hadn’t given – I was certain we hadn’t given performance enhancing drugs and I wanted to say it at a press conference, and I was advised if I said that I’d look stupid. And Gillon McLachlan was very strong in saying to me, “You can’t say that because it won’t be right.” I said, “Well, I want to say it.: I was talked out of saying that. And then it was advised to me by [Elizabeth] Lukin, the media manager, that I should accept ultimate responsibility. I should say whatever – I can’t even remember what I said, but ultimately I’m the one responsible …

Hird: My personal view is that the football club has a duty of care to its players and I am partly responsible for that duty of care.



ASADA said Ms Lukin has been asked on a number of occasions (directly and through her solicitor) to comment on Mr Hird’s allegation that his ‘acceptance of full responsibility’ was based on her advice. To date, Ms Lukin has not sought to rebut Mr Hird’s claim. She will however, not escape future scrutiny. I wonder if they call them subpoenas because they can torpedo their way almost anywhere.
 

mxett

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Courtesy of Bruce Francis on BB:

Posted with permission:
This is really interesting and confirms some of my assumptions about how things transpired. However, if Reid was on board from the very start why was any form of thymosin on the consents without a clear definition of which form it was?
 

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Fair to say Elizabeth Lukin was an absolute snake. Would not surprise me if Hird was already painted as the scape goat and Elizabeth was sent in to shape the story to achieve that. Telling him to say he accepts ultimate responsibility on day 1? What else could she have been thinking?
Lukin is a campaigner and just one of the many seedy players in this debacle.
The Bruce Francis info would appear to be a pretty direct line to Hird, if that's his version (or part thereof) of events and he has watched/listened to 2 years of "DRUG CHEAT" accusations from all and sundry all the while being gagged by the club; can you for one second imagine the homicidal rage that you would have reading or hearing those very public accusations levelled against you? Ouch!
 

Dan Cooper

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Caro's ramblings become pointless when she labors the same point over and over again. This is very much SOLELY a Caro crusade.
As Robbo had no hesitation saying some time back on SEN radio:

"Caroline Wilson is trying to destroy James Hird's life."

It is an ugly obsession she simply cannot refrain from.
 

George Washington

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From what Bruce has written about Thompson as well, it's a joke he has been implicated and fined, and it makes sense now why he won't pay the fine.

Originally only Hird and Reid were going to be charged, and then when they wouldn't roll over they charged Thompson.

From what I can tell Thompson actually deserves to be congratulated for his efforts in trying to get Dank/Robinson in line.
 

fishardansin

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As Robbo had no hesitation saying some time back on SEN radio:

"Caroline Wilson is trying to destroy James Hird's life."

It is an ugly obsession she simply cannot refrain from.
When the tribunal case is over I'm sure that the club is going to let Hird off the leash. Little has hinted to that already. If Hird is as persistent about this as he has shown himself to be in every other part of his professional life then Caro's in a fair bit of trouble, especially if the players get off as I suspect they will.

I'm sure Hird will still keep focus on his job but probably spend a small part of his fortune to have a campaign office of sorts managing legal and media duties to pursue these "journalists" in any way possible. I'm guessing that it'll be a labour of love for Tania and some New Ltd journalists would love Caro's scalp, as would a few Fairfax journos love Phatprick. I also think that there are quite a few who would love to rub Damo into the dirt.

All in all it could be a good thing for football if it shines a light on the corruption at the centre of our game and removes the malicious mouthpieces and muck rakers who control a large section of the public communications surrounding the game.

Last time the Labour Party won government we choked in a final to an inferior team from a club that hated us. We followed that up with a premiership. Lets hope we can do that again.
 

rumply

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following on from George Washington's post, a chronological summary from Bruce

Applying logic, this is how I believe things unfolded. NB This is my theory.



About July 2011: A disgruntled ex-Newcastle rugby league player’s girlfriend dobbed her ex in for taking pills and the ACC decided to investigate it. At about the same time (27 July 2011) Hird asked an ASADA official about peptypes. He didn't know they were called peptides. The ASADA official told his boss about Hird's inquiry and ASADA notified Brett Clothier at the AFL.



29 July 2011: Clothier phoned Essendon’s general manager – football operation, Paul Hamilton, and asked him to bring Hird to AFL House. Calling Hamilton indicates Clothier / AFL knew Hamilton was higher up the ladder than Hird. Hamilton was on the EFC executive and Hird wasn’t.



Early 2012: the Australian Crime Commission (ACC), with assistance from Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority (ASADA) and the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) commenced an investigation into drug use in sport and the involvement of organised crime. The investigation was named Project Aperio. Based on intelligence provided to the ACC, the investigation concentrated primarily on two major codes, the AFL and the NRL.



Early 2013: The Gillard Labor Government was under the hammer over Craig Thomson’s misuse of union funds at brothels. There were also whispers of a challenge to M/s Gillard’s job by Mr Rudd. At the same time, the ACC, ASADA and TGA had completed their investigation (Aperio) and had identified some disturbing things, which it included in a report. Two Gillard ministers, Jason Clare and Kate Lundy saw the report as an opportunity to divert attention away from the government.



Thursday 31 January 2013: the ACC and ASADA briefed AFL chief executive, Andrew Demetriou, deputy chief executive, Gillon McLachlan, and manager – integrity services, Brett Clothier on the findings of Project Aperio. During the meeting McLachlan enquired “Is it Essendon?” The ACC’s Paul Jevtovic said: “Say no more.” A briefing document stated that Essendon FC was under suspicion. A discussion then took place about an investigation into Essendon.



Friday 1 February 2013: Clothier spoke to ASADA chief executive, Ms Aurora Andruska about conducting a joint investigation. Clothier pointed out that the AFL rules compelled the players to cooperate under threat of sanction whereas ASADA did not have that power.



Friday 1 February 2013: Demetriou and Evans had a number of discussions. Although Demetriou knew it was against the law to tell anyone, evidence suggests he told David Evans about his briefing. I assume Demetriou believed if Essendon dobbed itself in, it would reduce the penalty and the AFL and Essendon would look more responsible and suffer less ridicule in the media. I believe Hird’s version of what happened for a number of reasons. In particular, because Hird had nothing to gain. In fact, he had a lot to lose. As soon as Hird told ASADA that Demetriou told Evans to self-report, Essendon lost any chance of having the penalties reduced if found guilty.



I suspect most people would have done what Demetriou is believed to have done. We have all passed on secrets we promised not to. We embrace the saying “I can keep a secret, it’s just the person I told who can’t.” In a sense, Martin Hardie and I have done a similar thing in quoting from the Interim Report, we believed it would help Essendon. I assume Demetriou would have told Evans he had some really bad news but he needed Evan's promise he wouldn't ever reveal he was tipped off. As we know, that eventually put Evans in an invidious position. Do I break my promise to Demetriou or end my friendship with Hird?



Friday 1 February 2013: Evans called on Dr Reid at his home and asked him if the players had taken banned substances. Dr Reid was shocked and said no. Dr Reid told me that Evans told him that earlier that day Demetriou and McLachlan had told him EFC players had been taking banned substances. [On a number of occasions I have pleaded with the media to discuss the matter with Dr Reid. To my knowledge none has. Nothing has ever appeared in the newspapers. The media doesn’t want to know because it would have had to expose Demetriou].



Evans told ASADA during the investigation that he and Robson decided to do nothing over the weekend of 2 & 3 February 2013. They decided to see what unfolded. If that were true, it was an extraordinary decision. It’s incomprehensible that Evans didn’t ring Hamilton, Robinson, or even Hird or Jobe Watson.



Monday 4 February 2013: Demetriou had a number of discussions with Evans and advised/told him what he should do. Evans testified that he went into the club early Monday morning and found the player consent forms. He testified that finding the consent forms was why he self-reported. Interestingly, Hird found the consent forms the following day (Tuesday). Evans’ version was wrong. About 8.30pm Evans phoned Hird, who was having dinner with his family to celebrate his 40th birthday. Hird said Evans said “We’re in a lot of trouble. The AFL believes that we have taken performance-enhancing drugs. Get over here straight away.”Robson, Corcoran and Dr Reid were also asked to go straight to Evans’s home. Demetriou phoned Evans at 9pm and allegedly told Evans he had to self-report and call for an investigation. Evans told the group what Demetriou had said. The AFL advised Evans and Robson to suspend Dean Robinson and insisted they retain Liz Lukin as a media consultant.



Tuesday 5 February 2013: Hird went to the club early and found the consent forms in Robinson’s office. At approximately 12pm, Clothier told McLachlan, Essendon (then) chairman, David Evans, Essendon (then) chief executive, Ian Robson, and senior coach, James Hird, “there will be a joint investigation”. Clothier later sent an email to John Nolan from ASADA which said: “I told them that there would be a joint investigation between ASADA and the AFL. At about 1.30pm, Robson told Andruska he wanted a full investigation. This telephone conversation was subsequently, disingenuously, not only portrayed as Essendon ‘self-reporting’ the possible use of prohibited substances during the 2012 season, but as a request for a joint ASADA / AFL investigation. Essendon never asked for a joint investigation and ASADA and the AFL had already decided on it. Mid-afternoon Evans called a media conference and announced that he had requested an investigation into EFC’s supplementation.



Thursday 7 February 2013: Ministers Clare and Lundy, cheered on by Demetriou and the rest of the Gillard Government cheer squad, launched the most unprecedented attack on Australian sport in our history. I don’t know the NRL guy but if I bought the other sport bosses at my price and sold them at their price, I could eliminate the national budget deficit in one go. I have only had three types of nightmares – lightning, dropped catches and that Demetriou and James Sutherland would be sacked and would swop jobs.



Between 10 February 2013 and 20 February 2013: AFL officials (McLachlan and Clothier), ASADA officials Paul Simonsson and lawyer, Elen Perdikogiannis, and Richard Eccles, deputy secretary of the Department of Prime Minister of Cabinet, engaged in several discussions to create a deal whereby the Essendon players would be exonerated in return for a written confession that they unknowingly took banned substances. The deal was conveyed to the players by Simonsson on 20 February 2013.Simultaneously, to this decision, the AFL were screaming and shouting about what went on at Essendon. This begs the questions as to what the AFL felt about the various issues and why they acted the way they did then and in subsequent months. The AFL’s actions suggest they weren’t concerned about the players’ health or the integrity of the competition and therefore had another motive:



Ø If Clothier were concerned for the integrity of the competition he would have conducted regular audits of Essendon after his 5 August 2011 meeting when he alleges he told Hird all peptides were banned.



Ø If the AFL were worried about the health of the players it would have run down to Essendon to issue a warning and conduct an investigation immediately after finishing the phone call on the 19 October 2011 after Dr Reid had told them the players were administered peptides without his permission.



Ø If the AFL were worried about the health of the players and the integrity of the competition, it would have conducted an investigation immediately after Adrian Anderson sent out his email on 26 April 2012, which carried possible catastrophic consequences.



Ø If the AFL were worried about the health of the players and the integrity of the competition, Demetriou and McLachlan would have done something the moment they suspected breaches of the codes at Essendon. They did nothing.



Given the above, it is safe to say the concern for the players’ safety and concern for the integrity of the competition, were not the reasons for all the blustering and posturing by the AFL.



I believe the AFL took the actions it did to ingratiate itself with the Gillard Government. We have been told regularly by the Demetriou and McLachlan sycophants that over a relatively short period, the AFL had received over $3 billion from the various governments for ground improvements. As much as I love sport, I would much prefer that money was spent on hospitals and our armed servicemen and women. However, it is understandable that the AFL would want to ingratiate itself with the government in case there was more money in the bickie tin.



Obviously, after Ministers Clare and Lundy’s shameful performance, the government needed a big prize. But who? It wasn’t practical to offer up the players because that would have meant the AFL could only have offered Channel 7 and Fox eight competitive games a week and not nine. That’s 23 dud matches a season. Presumably, Fox and Channel 7 would have demanded a refund from the AFL in the order of $100 million plus, which was never an option. Going after the Essendon board, who were legally responsible, would have been quickly ruled out through rule 1: the old mates’ rule. Guess what? That only left the support staff as the target. And who better people to offer up as a sacrifice than Hird, Dr Reid, Mark Thompson and Danny Corcoran.



ASADA acted outside its charter by not only participating in talks with the Gillard Government, but by accepting instructions from the Gillard Government.



On 4 June 2013, Andruska and M/s Perdikogiannis of ASADA spoke to M/s Glenys Beauchamp, deputy secretary, Department of Sport. The handwritten notes recorded by Ms Perdikogiannis record the following: “9am conversation with M/s Glenys Beauchamp [Secretary, Department of Regional Australia, Local Government, Arts and Sport] with AA [Aurora Andruska].Clear instructions from Min [Minister Lundy]. Min [Lundy] – her colleagues at her, or accusing her of hampering chances of re-election – you need an outcome. Heightened levels of anxiety by AA [Aurora Andruska], an Elen gets emotional as well”. Big business sponsors, Australia’s reputation, etc. Min [Lundy] has put it on Glenys etc M/s Andruska also took a note of the meeting. Her notes recorded: Lundy: needs something; Deal with AFL: support staff sacked, points off [Essendon], players off [my emphasis]



Another meeting took place on 4 June 2013: McLachlan, Evans, Eccles, Andruska, Simonsson, Perdikogiannis. McLachlan was concerned about $1 million worth of ticket sales for the first two weeks of the finals. He wanted to maximize the opportunity for the best outcome for the players. Simonsson made notes and noted that certain persons “have to go” followed by a reference to a “restructure of whole department”, no doubt the football department [my emphasis].



On 13 June 2013, Ms Perdikogiannis recorded a “strategy” meeting. She had been told of an AFL Board Meeting where AFL wished to keep the pressure on ASADA to be the “bad guy”. It was reported that theAFL had stated in respect of the player support staff, such as Hird, that the “AFL will go them” [my emphasis]. It was also noted that if the evidence stacks up, “take points off them”. McLachlan of the AFL reported there was board pressure and that “prior to the [AFL] finals how can this be resolved?”



On 19 June 2013, Ms Andruska met with the following people: Malcolm Holmes QC; Burgess (ASADA); Dillon (AFL); Clothier (AFL); McLachlan (AFL). McLachlan asked for a high level report and disclosed that such report was required to resolve matters and preserve the integrity of the 2013 season. There was talk of governance failure issues as well. There were some outcomes recorded by Andruska as follows:



Outcome report: purpose of meeting is to understand what AFL required from ASADA and to reach agreement on what could be provided by when. Agreed ASADA would provide investigators report drawing together the outcome of the interview of the EFC players.

McLachlan spoke of ‘board pressures’ and prior to the finals. How can be resolved?’

Andruska summarised [McLachlan’s request]: [Interim Report] Use as a basis of decision making; Table to commission



On 26 June 2013, Andruska spoke to McLachlan. She noted McLachlan’s comments as follows: Take points off Essendon; We need all the detail to get through that; Problematic if not full report; Get outcome we need;Take bits out that might compromise what we need [my emphasis].



Andruska attended a further meeting with the AFL on 24 July 2013. Demetriou, Dillon and Clothier were there. Demetriou did not want any redactions in the report. Demetriou stated that “2 or three things cannot afford to be made public [my emphasis]. Andruska noted that Demetriou further stated: On track for 17 August; Deal with club before finals; Allows one month to deal with club; I can deal with individuals; Charge Essendon in 2 – 3 weeks; AFL Commission know the matter; Decision cannot be appealed.



On 15 July, John Nolan (ASADA) asked Abraham Haddad of the AFL to prepare an injections table based on assumptions and a formula. Not really what we are looking for. 14 out of 58 persons at EFC remember injections being referred to as Amino Acids. If we add the Multi vitamin aspect then it is a little more convincing [my emphasis].



On 2 July 2013, a further phone conference occurred between ASADA and the AFL concerning the contents of the interim report. ASADA recorded the outcomes of the conference as follows: ASADA / AFL – Table of Outcomes; Under heading “Outcome”; Purpose - ASADA will provide a report to the AFL with as much information as is lawfully possible and which does not prejudice ongoing investigations; the report to the AFL will include; a) Conclusions on the environment at Essendon that goes to the behaviour of its support personnel;
ASADA’s position on whether it intends to prosecute any cases on AOD 9604; c. Conclusions on whether there is sufficient evidence for ASADA to further investigate individual players (as required by statutory obligations) with respect to other prohibited substances racket (including Hexarelin and Thymosin Beta-4



On 4 July 2013, ASADA wrote to the AFL and proposed sending the AFL a report prepared by its lawyers and not the ASADA investigation report



On 4 July 2013, Ms Andruska wrote to the AFL and declined to provide the complete Asada investigation report. She stated: ASADA cannot disclose the internal investigation report based on advice of counsel – would disclose information which ASADA cannot lawfully disclose



On 8 July 2013, a teleconference took place between ASADA and the AFL. The AFL expressed concern about any limitation on contents of the report ASADA was to provide to it. The AFL wanted the report for its own decision-making purposes: Outcomes; Under heading “Outcome”; Acknowledged; 2. The AFL raised concerns about the comprehensiveness of the report and the ability to rely on it for the purpose of the decision-making



On 16 July 2013, ASADA and the AFL discussed the impending interim report Under the heading “Outcome: Uncontrolled environment at Essendon” Clothier wrote: “The AFL is not looking for conclusions or commentary on the uncontrolled environment. The AFL required the information/evidence collected through the interview to be assembled in a way that paints a picture of the controlled EFC environment – to a large extent provide information [evidence to support] the Ziggy report which is all conclusions [my emphasis].



The AFL also wants the report to include any evidence that the EFC was duped – notwithstanding its incompetence to protect themselves and the EFC against such threats



The AFL considers the report to be one of a number of items that the AFL will be considering in determining appropriate action against the EFC.” Clothier spoke to Mr Burgess on 19 July 2013 and provided commentary on the draft report. Clothier was keen to emphasise the AFL requirements:



Brett Clothier believes that the full content of the investigators report bracket environment, how was it allowed to continue stop Essendon’s culture) are all ultimately relevant, for the AFL to form a view that there was an unacceptable risk of the player group taking/be administered prohibited substances racket conduct prejudicial to the interests of the game close bracket





Bruce Francis Comment: I believe the investigation was a sham designed to ingratiate the AFL with the Federal Labor Government. It wasn’t in the interests of the AFL to nail the players so Hird became the acceptable big fish.
 

DonsRule

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Justice Middleton should be ashamed of himself and his profession. So there.
Nah, Bruce pointed out Middleton did not rule whether that side of ASADA's investigation abpve board.

He was asked to rule on weather the joint investigation was legal.

Different topics.
 

JayDon

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When the tribunal case is over I'm sure that the club is going to let Hird off the leash. Little has hinted to that already. If Hird is as persistent about this as he has shown himself to be in every other part of his professional life then Caro's in a fair bit of trouble, especially if the players get off as I suspect they will.

I'm sure Hird will still keep focus on his job but probably spend a small part of his fortune to have a campaign office of sorts managing legal and media duties to pursue these "journalists" in any way possible. I'm guessing that it'll be a labour of love for Tania and some New Ltd journalists would love Caro's scalp, as would a few Fairfax journos love Phatprick. I also think that there are quite a few who would love to rub Damo into the dirt.

All in all it could be a good thing for football if it shines a light on the corruption at the centre of our game and removes the malicious mouthpieces and muck rakers who control a large section of the public communications surrounding the game.

Last time the Labour Party won government we choked in a final to an inferior team from a club that hated us. We followed that up with a premiership. Lets hope we can do that again.
That's the best post I've read on here. Good work fishardansin.
 

DonsRule

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Yeah, sounds like legal double talk to me.
I agree with expires.
The judge can only rule on what he is asked to rule on, his ruling was purely on the legaility of the joint investigaton. ANd the legality of the interim report.

He isn't allowed to rule on questions/areas not asked.
 
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