No Opposition Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

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table tennis

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I'm finding it incredibly difficult not to make a misogynistic, vile, derogatory comment about that "lady".

She's probably just following the prevailing breezes of journo circle jerk opinion
She does it with an affable arrogance that makes me want to part take in road rage.

I now have to lock myself in my car
 
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Brilliant post Jade.

Something that really sucks about BF is the lack of balance in peoples arguements re the supplement scandal.

Both on our board, and the HTB.
I was balanced and considered all views for a long time about this until it slowly dawned that we were being royally **** ed in the proverbial in the most immoral and unethical way. Trying to be balanced now seems like a form of Stockholm syndrome.
 
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On a positive. The poisonous snake Rebecca Wilson has changed her tune on SEN in regards to player suspensions. She expects they will get off. Which is 180 on her "well informed" opinions from the cheap seats in Sydney.
Funnily enough I still don't give a shit what she says.
 

doug85

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I was balanced and considered all views for a long time about this until it slowly dawned that we were being royally **** ed in the proverbial in the most immoral and unethical way. Trying to be balanced now seems like a form of Stockholm syndrome.
You can still have a balanced view and think we were ****** over.

I think the players, coaches, support staff and fans have been ****** over.

I still think the board and some of the medical team ****** up.

Our club, probably a few other clubs and the AFL deserve to get huge kicks in the ass.
 
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You can still have a balanced view and think we were stuffed over.

I think the players, coaches, support staff and fans have been stuffed over.

I still think the board and some of the medical team stuffed up.

Our club, probably a few other clubs and the AFL deserve to get huge kicks in the ass.
I agree with you on the board having stuffed up. We're yet to see any real evidence the medical team stuffed up as there hasn't been any real effort made to find out.
 

rumply

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Patrick Keane @AFL_PKeane · 41m41 minutes ago
AFL Anti-Doping Tribunal cont. hearing of past, present Essendon FC players & former employee who have been issued Infraction Notices today.
Patrick Keane @AFL_PKeane · 40m40 minutes ago
Tribunal heard evidence from 2 medical specialists, one called by Mr Holmes QC for ASADA, and one called by Mr David Grace QC for players.
Patrick Keane @AFL_PKeane · 40m40 minutes ago
The medical specialists gave evidence in relation to a number of substances which are subject of Infraction Notices. Hearing resumes tmrw.


I thought there was only one substance which was the 'subject of Infraction Notices':confused:
 

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60sbomber

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Bigfooty is a very insular environment and not representative of the community at large. It does not pay to get caught up in the vitriolic rantings of some.

The tribunal members are open to scrutiny in their handling of the case in front of them.
We are not in a position to doubt their integrity and as Jade said is disrespectful
The tribunal members are not open to any scrutiny. That is the problem for me. When the tribunal proceedings are in secret, no-one, not the players' lawyers nor the tribunal members can be scrutinised. If the players are found guilty I will want to know on exactly what evidence, and will want to know what the players' lawyers' response was to the evidence ASADA presented.

I am willing to be convinced, but I am not going to accept a guilty verdict without a detailed justification.
 
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The tribunal members are not open to any scrutiny. That is the problem for me. When the tribunal proceedings are in secret, no-one, not the players' lawyers nor the tribunal members can be scrutinised. If the players are found guilty I will want to know on exactly what evidence, and will want to know what the players' lawyers' response was to the evidence ASADA presented.

I am willing to be convinced, but I am not going to accept a guilty verdict without a detailed justification.
the findings in this tribunal as in any tribunal need to be recorded and whilst potentially not being available to the public are available to the players and their representatives therefore allowing for any appeal which then puts the original case and verdict up for scrutiny. The Tribunal members do not owe you or I any explanation for their verdict.

We too are biased therefore 'if' our boys are found guilty on the merits of the case presented how many here are going to put a guilty verdict down to the bias of the Tribunal.
 

60sbomber

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the findings in this tribunal as in any tribunal need to be recorded and whilst potentially not being available to the public are available to the players and their representatives therefore allowing for any appeal which then puts the original case and verdict up for scrutiny. The Tribunal members do not owe you or I any explanation for their verdict.

We too are biased therefore 'if' our boys are found guilty on the merits of the case presented how many here are going to put a guilty verdict down to the bias of the Tribunal.
The fact that the findings need to be recorded and are available to the players and their lawyers is nowhere near enough. As we have discussed at length here, legal outcomes are rarely black and white. If the players are found guilty, it doesn't mean they are. It means that the tribunal will have been comfortably satisfied based on the evidence put before them and based on the evidence that was and wasn't admissible and based on what the players lawyers presented in the way of argument.

As we have established in our own discussions, none of this is clear cut.

I will want to see the evidence, what was presented by both sides, what was deemed to be admissible, what medical experts said, what the tribunal thought was decisive in reaching their judgement. A verdict one way or the other will not do it.

I don't care whether the tribunal members owe me any explanation or not. I bloody well want to know!

And give it a rest about accusing the tribunal of bias. I am not doing that, nor are the majority. But even without any accusation of bias, there is plenty of room for querying and evaluating the outcome, whichever side you are on. We should get to know and understand the full details of the hearing and how and why whatever verdict that is reached was reached.
 

MarkG

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Had it confirmed at Christmas that Demetriou was Caro's source.

He also told ex AFL employees that under no circumstances were they to be photographed with James Hird, and to avoid him in public. Unfortunately, one of the people he told went straight to Hird & told him.
Easy to blame James for everything. James insisted on nothing illegal. Throw enough mud and eventually some sticks.

Disappoints me that on this forum people have been influenced by Caro enough to support her in front of Hird. Do you seriously think that James Hird told Dank to risk his players health and get a small advantage by using banned substances if any advantage at all.

I wonder if the people on this forum are so supportive of Middleton are equally supportive of Hird.

I don't know any individual in my time that has copped as much personal abuse as James Hird has.
 

yaco55

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It is a bigger worry that Charter says ASADA selectively used his evidence to suit their own case. Alavi said similar.

Consider the sentence " players were administered the legal thymosin and not TB4.

Remove a few words "the legal thymosin and not"

And it becomes "the players were administered TB4"
No the bigger issue is that Charter wasn't compelled to answer questions - ASADA's new powers allow you to interview support staff but there is no compulsion to answer questions. Darren Hibberd refused to answer questions at his ASADA interview - Alavi was less than forthcoming at his interview with ASADA - I suspect that Charter was given reason to answer questions - Or why would Charter run away after he was charged for illegal drug importation.
 

The Prosecutor

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Easy to blame James for everything. James insisted on nothing illegal. Throw enough mud and eventually some sticks.

Disappoints me that on this forum people have been influenced by Caro enough to support her in front of Hird. Do you seriously think that James Hird told Dank to risk his players health and get a small advantage by using banned substances if any advantage at all.

I wonder if the people on this forum are so supportive of Middleton are equally supportive of Hird.

I don't know any individual in my time that has copped as much personal abuse as James Hird has.
So if you feel Hird should be held accountable for his role, you're aupporting Caro over him?

It's that sort of logic that makes debates so hostile. People here are capable of forming their own opinions. It's insulting to suggest otherwise.
 

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Patrick Keane @AFL_PKeane · 41m41 minutes ago
AFL Anti-Doping Tribunal cont. hearing of past, present Essendon FC players & former employee who have been issued Infraction Notices today.
Patrick Keane @AFL_PKeane · 40m40 minutes ago
Tribunal heard evidence from 2 medical specialists, one called by Mr Holmes QC for ASADA, and one called by Mr David Grace QC for players.
Patrick Keane @AFL_PKeane · 40m40 minutes ago
The medical specialists gave evidence in relation to a number of substances which are subject of Infraction Notices. Hearing resumes tmrw.


I thought there was only one substance which was the 'subject of Infraction Notices':confused:
So did 32 players.
 

yaco55

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Easy to blame James for everything. James insisted on nothing illegal. Throw enough mud and eventually some sticks.

Disappoints me that on this forum people have been influenced by Caro enough to support her in front of Hird. Do you seriously think that James Hird told Dank to risk his players health and get a small advantage by using banned substances if any advantage at all.

I wonder if the people on this forum are so supportive of Middleton are equally supportive of Hird.

I don't know any individual in my time that has copped as much personal abuse as James Hird has.
You have no argument when you use the Caro line to support your assertion. Posters are big enough and ugly enough to form their own opinions.
 

yaco55

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On a positive. The poisonous snake Rebecca Wilson has changed her tune on SEN in regards to player suspensions. She expects they will get off. Which is 180 on her "well informed" opinions from the cheap seats in Sydney.
Rebecca is a far worse journalist than Caro - Anyway the prevailing view has been that players will be not guilty, though there have been many twists and turns in this saga.
 
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