No Opposition Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

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Dave

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Not only did it evoke a lot of emotional outrage, it was the decisive point of no return in terms of how public opinion (and thus, pressure on us to submit to the AFL's desired outcome in August 2013) swung so violently, decisively and finally against us.

There's actually a grain of truth to the quote in the sense that yes, if we did indeed take TB4 or any other illegal substances, then it all becomes something of a sideshow to the main game.

However, the thing that stuns me is how there seems to be little sign of people saying "well, if the AFL manufactured that particular outcome in that manner, just what else were they prepared to do".
When their club is on the end of it they will howl though.
 

efcboy

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ASADA are prosecutors. That's their jobs to present evidence in a manner likeliest to achieve a conviction.
I think they're crossing the line interpreting an admission of thymosin as an admission of TB4. It's an admission of thymosin and nothing more than that.

Also ASADA didn't accept responsibility for the AOD9604 bungle. And it is not ASADA's role to investigate governance and procedural matters and provide evidence on those matters.

ASADA are not only prosecutors - they also exist to assist athletes in preventing them inadvertently taking a banned substance. Hence the hotline to call for their assistance.
 

cymarak

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My opinion is thus:

The ASADA Act was setup to eliminate the possibility of a controlling sporting body dictating the outcome of an investigation.
The problem for me here is that ASADA got into bed with the AFL in a way that compromised ASADA's independence.

Basically, the AFL gave ASADA access to the AFL's power of coercion, which made ASADA beholden to the AFL, and allowed the AFL to dictate parts of the way the saga unfolded - notably, the interim report.

If ASADA hadn't sold its soul to the AFL to get access to the AFL's powers of coercion, things might have played out quite differently.

I wonder if there is any appetite in Parliament to modify the relevant legislation to further separate ASADA from the sporting bodies it's meant to investigate ?
 

Dan Cooper

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My opinion is thus:

In this instance the AFL have done exactly that - the intention was (all along) to oust support staff and spare the players. This was their best result to maximise attendances and profits....


..."but I've got finals tickets to sell".
 

Mercurial89

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No, he's suffering from 'not obtuse and can see that what occurred was legal, if immoral' syndrome.
That sounds serious? Is it treatable?

Maybe but ASADA being the body they are, have a much greater responsibility here.
The club has a duty to their players. I would say they have equal responisbility
 

Jade

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I think they're crossing the line interpreting an admission of thymosin as an admission of TB4. It's an admission of thymosin and nothing more than that.
It's an admission of use of Thymosin. Entirely relevant when trying to build a case for use of Thymosin Beta 4.

Also ASADA didn't accept responsibility for the AOD9604 bungle.
They don't have to accept responsibility. They declined to prosecute on it's use.

And it is not ASADA's role to investigate governance and procedural matters and provide evidence on those matters.
They summarised information that the AFL already had. Four Federal Court judges have now said they were within their powers to do so.
 

Dan Cooper

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ASADA are prosecutors. That's their jobs to present evidence in a manner likeliest to achieve a conviction.
That ASADA ran an investigation or a joint investigation appears to be farce.

They have merely collected information supporting a guilty verdict and binned anything that suggested anything to the contrary.

Investigation be ****ed :rolleyes:
 

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cymarak

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They don't have to accept responsibility. They declined to prosecute on it's use.
They let our players hang out to dry for months, let WADA et al bang on unchallenged and in public about how AOD-9604 was banned, and then eventually issued a weak statement as to why no prosecution was going to happen, without admitting or allocating any blame whatsoever.

Not good enough.

Not by a long way.
 

Jade

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They let our players hang out to dry for months, let WADA et al bang on unchallenged and in public about how AOD-9604 was banned, and then eventually issued a weak statement as to why no prosecution was going to happen, without admitting or allocating any blame whatsoever.

Not good enough.

Not by a long way.
Preaching to the choir. I thought their response to AOD-9604 was piss poor. Write to the Federal Sports Minister and complain about it.
 

Jade

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A legal party responsible for presenting a case AFTER an individual has been accused of breaking rules or the law.

In this matter ASADA have played the role of both policeman AND prosecutor.
They have.

Which doesn't change the fact that the role of a prosecutor is to present an argument that a defendant did in fact breach the rules/law.
 

cymarak

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It's safe to say it'll be a long while until we see anyone else 'self-report' and voluntarily invite ASADA in the door.

EDIT: yes, I know the 'self-report' wasn't really a true self-report.
 

DonsRule

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And prosecutors do what exactly?
THey are obliged to hand over all relevant information under Model Litigant. - as far as I know that is not a legal requirement so much as a code of ethics.. Reasons for this is government departments do have the power to compel witness, compel documentations, have a lot more funding and have access to a lot more power an information than the average citizen

ASADA can use information as they see fit in prosecuting the case, but they are supposed to hand all information over to the defence too, whether it supports their case or not.
 

Dan Cooper

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They have.

Which doesn't change the fact that the role of a prosecutor is to present an argument that a defendant did in fact breach the rules/law.
A policemen however is meant to use balance is assessing whether someone has broken the law or not. Something that occurs before a prosecutor ever gets involved.

ASADA played the policeman role here too, and appear not to have used balance in their assessment - instead using selectivity.
 

Mercurial89

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And this changes what ASADA does how?
Its a sticking point for whether they SHOULD be allowed to do what they have been doing. (ie does the system as it stands provide protection for the sports it governs and the players rights under any investigation).

Wont change S*** about how this plays out but is more a big picture question of should this be the way the Anti-doping body operates.

It appears that its fairly evenly split down the line for yes and no.
 

Jade

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Its a sticking point for whether they SHOULD be allowed to do what they have been doing. (ie does the system as it stands provide protection for the sports it governs and the players rights under any investigation).

Wont change S*** about how this plays out but is more a big picture question of should this be the way the Anti-doping body operates.

It appears that its fairly evenly split down the line for yes and no.
I'm seeing a lot of bitching and moaning about what ASADA SHOULD and SHOULDN'T do.

The only thing we should be concerned about is what they CAN and CAN NOT do.

And we've now had four Federal Court judges tell us that they have done only what they CAN do.

If you think they are doing something they SHOULDN'T be allowed to do, then lobby your local member to have the Act amended. Because as it stands right now, we are whining over ASADA performing a role they are allowed to because we don't like the potential outcome.
 
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