No Opposition Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

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lysp

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The words and actions of both McDevitt and Howman would have the AFL quitely seething, to use an appropriate phrase, have no doubt about that at all. It's a major, major slap in their face and they'd be fuming about it.
And not just that - the judges would be massively pissed.

Basically it's saying that all their time as judges and input they've given to the legal profession is worth nothing - basically to be accused of being biased in a sporting case.
 

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yaco55

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http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...ti-doping-agency/story-fni5f6kv-1227353891389

Can't help thinking that the WADA action is a vendetta against Essendon for rightfully fighting for their innocence.

"One of the arbitrators will be named by the president of the CAS Appeals Arbitration Appeals Division, former Swiss skier Corinne Schmidhauser."

How could anybody trust this person to not support WADA 100% and blindly say they are comfortably satisfied despite of the lack of evidence.
Been posting for months about political interference, backroom manouverings and machinations - There was always a chance that this could lead to a fall-out, though not to this extent.

I still reckon there will be no Senate/Political Enquiry - I suspect that Chip's upcoming book will lead to some startling revelations.
 
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And not just that - the judges would be massively pissed.

Basically it's saying that all their time as judges and input they've given to the legal profession is worth nothing - basically to be accused of being biased in a sporting case.
actually that I'm not so sure about - judges are used to appeals and they don't take it personally. But the AFL would be mightily peeved
 

yaco55

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The cost would have gone way beyond the $21 million they receive from the Government.

Imagine the fallout if the players are suspended for 2 years and the team is non functional.
The players will not get 2 years if found guilty - Once you take into account backdating of suspensions, the previous serving of provisional suspensions, delays in hearings, submissions from the AFL etc about penalties etc.

This is a show trial and if a MIRACLE occurs and players are found guilty they will get 2 to 4 week suspensions.
 

yaco55

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The red herring about subpoenas for Alavi and Charter rear their ugly head again - It's irrelevant whether these two are subpoenead because they don't have to answer questions in a hearing or can do the Andruska defence ' I don't remember ' - And Alavi and Charter still haven't signed their affidavits - Nothing to read here.
 
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I'm posting this here for those that are interested in the psychology of conspiracy theorists, I think it has some relevance to this thread;)

I'm not sure exactly where some of our more extreme brethren and HTB posters fit, but if more people read this then we could use the acronyms from table 3 to categorise silly arguments on here, e.g. MbW (must be wrong - based on a gut feeling), PV (persecuted victim), NoA (no accident), NI (Nefarious Intent) and UCT (unreflexive counterfactual thinking).

http://websites.psychology.uwa.edu.au/labs/cogscience/Publications/LskyetalRecursiveFury4UWA.pdf

I haven't read a scientific paper in a long time, and certainly not for my own amusement. However I really enjoyed this one. It is a paper that analysed the responses to an original article that they wrote suggesting a correlation between people who endorse free market economics and a rejection of climate change science, as well as some conspiracy theories (eg The moon landing was a hoax). The article breaks down the responses of the online critics and categorises their (often illogical) and conspiracy-themed responses.

The original journal withdrew it from publication as they were threatened with being sued by people who (perhaps with some merit) objected to being named as conspiracy theorists when they felt they were merely analysing the first report for errors. The University of WA were willing to publish it, happily for me.
 
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vast

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The players will not get 2 years if found guilty - Once you take into account backdating of suspensions, the previous serving of provisional suspensions, delays in hearings, submissions from the AFL etc about penalties etc.

This is a show trial and if a MIRACLE occurs and players are found guilty they will get 2 to 4 week suspensions.
Thats a good point. Surely if they are found guilty they cant be given 2 years? Obviously they have to into account to provisional suspensions but they would have be absolute campaigners not to take into account all the other delays which ASADA had a huge part in.

Something tells me they wont though they will want the maximum time they can get.
 

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tesla1962

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Thats a good point. Surely if they are found guilty they cant be given 2 years? Obviously they have to into account to provisional suspensions but they would have be absolute campaigners not to take into account all the other delays which ASADA had a huge part in.

Something tells me they wont though they will want the maximum time they can get.
WADA might but isn't it up to CAS to decide? Their judgments seem pretty reasonable with regard to this.
 

Pevers-Legend

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Other way around, I think, for the actors. I think.

All I remember is it's the only bad John Williams score ever.
No, the actors are around the right way. Brad Pitt plays one of the boys and is an assistant DA. Dustin Hoffman plays a bit of a goose as a lawyer - sort of reminds me of McDumbshit in terms of intelligence - except Dusty played a good guy.
 

Pevers-Legend

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The most interesting part of the Hird interview on 360 was discussion about the players meeting with Gill last week. Hird was guarded in his answer, but the implication is that players are still having a strained relationship with the AFL two years on.
I wonder why?
 

fishardansin

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little out of Column A, little out of Column B for mine.

I'm sorry but any way you dice it, it is a MAJOR slap in the face of the AFL. The anti-doping bodies have effectively declared they have no confidence in the AFL system to achieve a fair result. They would not be going as far as to suggest corruption, but there is no other way to read what their actions mean other than a complete lack of confidence, and have no doubt there is no doubt that is how the AFL would have interpreted it.

That is one of two major reasons the option of leaving WADA will be firmly on the commission table as of now, the other being the fact that WADA clearly do not care how much effect their processes have on the AFL, keeping in mind their local branch has already spent over two long years even getting it to this point, any EFC-caused delays aside.

Now, if I were a betting man I'd put my money on the AFL staying within the WADA system, but that is far from a foregone conclusion now.

The words and actions of both McDevitt and Howman would have the AFL quitely seething, to use an appropriate phrase, have no doubt about that at all. It's a major, major slap in their face and they'd be fuming about it.
Privately seething?

The AFL is wedged now though. I have no doubt they want out but they would never get away with it while this saga is fresh in peoples minds. Unless they can set up a very good anti-doping program and public sentiment against the length of the saga was stronger than that against Essendon's conduct in all of this. I just can't see the foamers and their heros in the press let this one slide.

However, if I was able to write up a program from scratch I would have players tested very regularly and have an approved list, rather than a banned list. That way instead of checking to see if something is banned players can use anything on the list or request for something to be added to it. Pain killer and antihistamines prescribed by the doc will be fine. That way will have two extra benefits. It will take away the arms race side of it because everyone can see what is being used in the league and also a better way than s0 at dealing with new drugs.

... If it wasn't for the wowsers I'd actually love to see the players all juicing up through the week and taking speed before the game for a more entertaining contest! ... but we'll pretend I didn't say that.
 

Bunk Moreland

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The red herring about subpoenas for Alavi and Charter rear their ugly head again - It's irrelevant whether these two are subpoenead because they don't have to answer questions in a hearing or can do the Andruska defence ' I don't remember ' - And Alavi and Charter still haven't signed their affidavits - Nothing to read here.
Charter being subpoenaed??

 
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expires

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as much as people love whately he isnt above fear mongering. Whats he trying to say that the afl tribunal was corrupt or incompetent?

Not even asada have suggested that.
Actually found him Caroish on Tuesday night. Why would he ask Hird if he had the moral authourity to coach Essendon? That only becomes an issue if WADA is successful with this appeal. Or was he saying the stood down year wasn't enough. It didn't make sense.

I get the feeling Gerard thinks he is close to damning evidence and just needs the last piece. Whoever fed him the "no such spreadsheet line" the following day would be agenda driven and just jumping at a chance to use him at a guess. Not sure about that last bit but his tone to Hird
was inappropriate when the Essendon players have recently been cleared.

Sick of Hird being portayed as evil. He is just a human being with values as normal as anyone else.
 

yaco55

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Actually found him Caroish on Tuesday night. Why would he ask Hird if he had the moral authourity to coach Essendon? That only becomes an issue if WADA is successful with this appeal. Or was he saying the stood down year wasn't enough. It didn't make sense.

I get the feeling Gerard thinks he is close to damning evidence and just needs the last piece. Whoever fed him the "no such spreadsheet line" the following day would be agenda driven and just jumping at a chance to use him at a guess. Not sure about that last bit but his tone to Hird
was inappropriate when the Essendon players have recently been cleared.

Sick of Hird being portayed as evil. He is just a human being with values as normal as anyone else.
It was an entirely appropriate question for whatley to ask Hird - Moral authority in this context refers to getting the best from players.
 

Kaiser Powser

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little out of Column A, little out of Column B for mine.

I'm sorry but any way you dice it, it is a MAJOR slap in the face of the AFL. The anti-doping bodies have effectively declared they have no confidence in the AFL system to achieve a fair result. They would not be going as far as to suggest corruption, but there is no other way to read what their actions mean other than a complete lack of confidence, and have no doubt there is no doubt that is how the AFL would have interpreted it.

That is one of two major reasons the option of leaving WADA will be firmly on the commission table as of now, the other being the fact that WADA clearly do not care how much effect their processes have on the AFL, keeping in mind their local branch has already spent over two long years even getting it to this point, any EFC-caused delays aside.

Now, if I were a betting man I'd put my money on the AFL staying within the WADA system, but that is far from a foregone conclusion now.

The words and actions of both McDevitt and Howman would have the AFL quitely seething, to use an appropriate phrase, have no doubt about that at all. It's a major, major slap in their face and they'd be fuming about it.
Spot on. Even having it on the commission table as a serious option should give WADA cause to think "is McDevitt's White Whale even worth chasing anymore?".

I'm somehow hoping reasonable commonsense takes place sometime in the next few days, but based upon what we have witnessed over the last few years I know there is very little chance of that happening.
 

Dan Cooper

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Have just re-watched the Hird interview with Robbo & Wakely, and Hird was very impressive, as he's been throughout this.

When the right time comes, I'd love to see Hird and Caro sit down and go toe to toe. Hird would put her right in her place quick smart.
 

Run and carry

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The red herring about subpoenas for Alavi and Charter rear their ugly head again - It's irrelevant whether these two are subpoenead because they don't have to answer questions in a hearing or can do the Andruska defence ' I don't remember ' - And Alavi and Charter still haven't signed their affidavits - Nothing to read here.
And I assume that Dank can adopt the "I don't remember" routine also? I've wondered how forthright he would have to be if he was called to the dock, in any court. Read an article today (not sure where) that depicted WADA's capacity to drag these guys into court as crucial.
 

Kaiser Powser

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actually that I'm not so sure about - judges are used to appeals and they don't take it personally. But the AFL would be mightily peeved
While the appeal itself won't insult them, you'd actually be surprised how closely Judges follow their appealed decisions. They keep a pretty tight scorecard of who's decisions have been maintained or overturned the further up it goes in the courts. No judge likes having their decision overturned and alternatively a full bench of the high court upholding your decision is a nice little pat on the back from the highest members of your industry.
 

efcboy

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Spot on. Even having it on the commission table as a serious option should give WADA cause to think "is McDevitt's White Whale even worth chasing anymore?".

I'm somehow hoping reasonable commonsense takes place sometime in the next few days, but based upon what we have witnessed over the last few years I know there is very little chance of that happening.
I'd think there is a reasonable chance WADA might withdraw their appeal within the 21 days. It took ASADA years to issue show cause notices. WADA had a lot of documents to review and have bought themselves time exercising their right to appeal. WADA will lose no face if they take the time to review and then pull the pin basically stating upon further review they have opted to withdraw the appeal.

If this is the end result then even better - it would show WADA displayed due diligence reviewing the case and declined to appeal. The foamers could not argue.

In the event WADA proceeded and lost on appeal again this would shut up the foamers. Two judicial systems would then have agreed the players were not guilty. There could be no conspiracy theory for the foamers.

Don't want to entertain the other possibility at this stage.
 
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