No Opposition Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

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Kakkle

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Even if the players decide to leave who says other clubs will get them? they could easily say "We don't want drug cheats at our club" suing the club isn't that clear cut.


Seriously, go play with your Star Wars.
 

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Lol c'mon man.

"Nah sorry 25yr old All Australian Full Back Michael Hurley, we don't want you at our club"
"Nah sorry Hep, we have an eye on someone at pick 76 we really think could make it, no room for you on our list"

And then those clubs give Essendon peanuts in return.if any players decide to leave and play for another club I hope we bleed them dry.
 

Eleven 38

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Most of the stuff about players leaving needs to be worried about in October.

This year's wages is about all players can sue for. But I can't see it being a slam dunk, and I guess the club will probably pay them anyway. Worst part is we will probably decide the ridiculous amount of money other clubs decided to pay Ryder crameri carlisle and melksham.
 

BomberTime

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Anyone thinking these players will leave and we get good compensation via free agency or trades, think again. We will get screwed and deserve it. These players deserve to go where they want to go and will be treated like human beings.
 
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Anyone thinking these players will leave and we get good compensation via free agency or trades, think again. We will get screwed and deserve it. These players deserve to go where they want to go and will be treated like human beings.
Yet we got pick #5 for Carlisle.

Dodoro will strike again come October.
 

DapperDon

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Most of the stuff about players leaving needs to be worried about in October.

This year's wages is about all players can sue for. But I can't see it being a slam dunk, and I guess the club will probably pay them anyway. Worst part is we will probably decide the ridiculous amount of money other clubs decided to pay Ryder crameri carlisle and melksham.
Make no mistake, clubs are already looking at what they can throw at players and some most likely have already made contact with player agents.

If they haven't they aren't doing their jobs correctly.
 
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Can you summarise her thoughts please?
Watching tennis, what's she saying?
She said that they thought everything was ok and Dyson believed the players would be found innocent. Being an interior decorator and hubby a builder they and their son could only go by what the experts said.

The family was a big rap for the club and how they looked after Heppell (she was referring to the coterie groups that will ensure all players have careers). She said they were also kept well informed and they had no beef with the current administration. The family as a whole are pretty laid back (surprise!) and prefer to look forward.

She said she couldn't speak for her son but that he would not be inclined to take legal action on his own, any decision like that would be made as a group (assuming current players here).

Felt very sorry for other players and families less fortunate then hers (Stanton, Mc Veigh, Longernan) and could understand if they were upset with things, Dyson has prospects beyond this year but others may not.

Speaking selfishly I would be happy if the other players and families felt the same way, she was lovely.
 
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Dempsey and Winderlich did not get banned. They were recovering from ACL injuries. If TB4 is such a good healer according to everyone why weren't these guys given that supplement?
Because I'm guessing it's slightly more complicated than "TB4 heals heaps good hey"
 

Bombfire

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Dempsey and Winderlich did not get banned. They were recovering from ACL injuries. If TB4 is such a good healer according to everyone why weren't these guys given that supplement?
I would suggest Reidy and the surgeons had a fair bit to do with their rehabilitation and Dank couldn't get his hands on them the way he wanted.
 

Bombfire

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Does anybody think staff such as Doc Reid should resign? Don't bite my head off, I just think he had a pretty massive duty of care here. On par with the coaching staff.
Reidy was certainly marginalised but it's unfathomable with his experience and standing at the club, he didn't know more about what was going on and didn't do more to take stock of the situation.
 

TheGreatBarryB

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I'm just shocked that WADA can ban athletes without a positive test AND a hunch. Standard of proof is fairly low. Personally I think Dank did give them TB4, if not he would surely have come out already and explain everything to save the players. But still they couldn't even prove it was at the club! Seeing a few vials around or commenting that we had a great start to the season is not evidence, it's simply a hunch.

They see that if they applied the AFL Tribunal's decision to Lance Armstrong's case then Lance would still be a 7-time Tour winner. But how? Teammates and others gave sworn statements against him plus a lot more concrete evidence. I don't think ASADA was able to get one sworn statement. No major league in the world would have suspended players on the evidence presented.

Dave Colbert the utter ******g w****r keeps going on about if Olympic athletes were in same boat, but I can't remember too many:

1. waiting 3 years
2. being suspended with no positive test and no other concrete evidence.
 

Thebisc

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Picking up a conversation from another thread, what are people's thoughts about Hird and his place at the club?

I know I'm in the minority (there's a shock) but I don't want him back at the club anytime soon. Of course he'll be welcome back at some point, but in the medium/long term. Not the short term. Like it or not this all happened under his watch. I'm yet to see him really take responsibility for it beyond that first presser, where we know he had to be really urged to say that. (There's been so much happen between then and now so if he HAS taken responsibility for it I'm happy to correct).

I used to see him as a great legend of our club. I don't anymore. He was a great player, no doubting that. But to me that's all he is now. He won two flags and a Brownlow. His reign is now likely to cost us a Brownlow, ruined a period where we were building to a flag, cost us Jake Carlisle and Paddy Ryder, cost us a year of these 12 players. To me the damage outweighs the good he did and that can't be ignored. I simply can't see him as a great of our club anymore. To me that suggests something more than a gun player, and he's lost that.

But, obv, just my thoughts. People will agree and people will disagree. But I was grabbing a convo from the other thread and bringing it in here. Before anyone accuses me of randomly bringing Hird up again. So what do y'all think?
Jim didn't handle the whole thing well at all. His pressers were terrible, anytime he tried to say something he lacked conviction. I still don't think he has grasped the fact that if he wasn't the coach this would never have occurred. He lost me with his statement after the interim report was released because it was basically a statement about him, not the players. The contract extension, paid suspension all just a dagger in the heart to a supporter like me. Great player, not so great coach, bad at crisis management. There will always be a part of me that loves James Hird but for now I think he needs a long spell from the club.
 

ant555

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Not sure where to put this but this topic is what it is about so here it is . First up i want to say people will have really different opinions to mine and i am fine
with that and if you disagree then so be it. That is life. This is how i currently feel about the situation and do not think for a minute i am pointing the finger at any poster or any posters opinions, i am just expressing my own an by no means am i saying everyone or anyone should agree.

I suppose the first feeling was a bit of shock, i was 90% sure we had a good case but always had that small doubt, even more so after reading a bit more about WADA in the last month or so. For some reason i had some relief as far as a decision had been made and some real sorrow for the players , even more so due to the family members of a few of the players that i am friends with who have also had a rough ride.

I have to say i was not really angry as such , maybe angry for the players and how the same evidence can be ruled on in such a different way. I think the anger has come later on and i more directed at those at the club who where involved. I genuinely believe that Hird would not have let the players knowingly take a substance he knew or though was banned but he has to be accountable for how it came about. The large scale injection program should not have been approved and even a lot of the stuff not banned was highly questionable . I believe Hird let the pressure for results get to him a little. They knew they had to try and fast track the playing group so he was prepared to push the line too far. They went way over the line with some of the stuff even if you discount TB4.
The dream team had to get results.
And what of Bomber Thompson, one who seems to have come out squeaky clean despite the fact that it had to have been him that recommended or at least sort out The Weapon who in turn came with the mad scientist. Why no angst for Bomber ?

The less i say about DC the better other than to say both times he was at the club he left us in a bloody mess and if you ask around his previous employ not a lot have too many good words to say. Got the job again because he came in the "Hird" package.

My real anger is still with those at the club who let Dank in. He had history and had been moved on after short stays at a few clubs (AFL and NRL) and had known links with a certain motor cycle gang member and his gyms. If was not hard to find out about him but obviously no one did or cared. This is the biggest sin out of the whole saga. A bit of due diligence by anyone in control would have said no, go and find someone else. Should never have been let near the place.
On top of this they should not have self reported. They should have said from the star, if you want us come after us but we are not going to help you shoot ourselves down. If you think you have a case then do your best.

I have no real comment on reporters. I stopped reading the trash a long time ago and did not even buy today's paper. My life is much calmer if i do not bother with crap that annoys me but i can not control but i can avoid.

On the verdict , well disappointed but after thinking about it a bit i know this is harsh but it has certainly outlined what WADA have said all along and that is if you are playing sport at a high level you better bloody well know what people are giving you. This is what tripped them up. The signed the sheet, they trusted the club. Up until now you would think this would be ok but it highlights the fact that they where still simply uneducated or did not really think of the full consequences of not going outside the club and looking up or finding out if anything was close to the line.
I totally understand the club nature of things and how at a footy club you trust and go along with things, even more so for the young blokes but this rule has always been there. I really have to ask if the AFL was fully informing the players on their obligations. Secondly i question some of the older blokes at the club who probably should have come forward and put more pressure on. More questions should have been asked. The club has screwed the 34 players but they must take a fraction of the guilt for not knowing the absolute rules regarding WADA. Would not think this will be a popular view among supporters of Essendon but it is what it is and what hung them in the end.

To WADA and its rule that did hang them and their comfortably satisfied verdicts. They are rubbish. Would not stand up in any real court of law and you could pick any number if judges and their version of comfortably satisfied could be totally different because it is not based on law or anything that has happened previously. On top of that CAS is pretty questionable as well given how the judges panel is not really 100% independent. There is a reason why a number of major sporting codes around the world refuse to stand under the WADA guidelines and it is not because they want drug cheats. It is because their rules and set up is not right for professional sporting teams. In fact is is also a bit too far one way for athletes as well. Anyway there are a few cases in Europe at the moment that may change the way the whole thing operates.

Should the players sue the club. If they feel that is what they need to do then yes.

Should the federal government of the time hang its head in shame ? yes it should. Too many outside chefs in the ASADA kitchen makes not a good pie. Too much grand standing when not enough was known and the big presser did not have to happen. Virtually no convictions relating to criminal activity in sport or criminals involved in sport have come from it. Once again too much meddling in things that they should not have been meddling in and too much pressure put on to get some sort of result.

Do i think they took a banned substance, no i do not. Dank was fired for over spending the budget well before any of this came out. If you believe some of the whispers that money was being used to buy product for his online chemist and for buying steriods for his gym customers but was blurred into the Essendon program. When he was fired there was no idea from a great number at Essendon that anything else was going on with the players.
I doubt they where given everything on the so called list but in saying that there where a few things that are legal they should not have touched either.

Will players leave ? I suspect a couple may but most will stay. Will not shock if a couple more want to go for a fresh start. I am strong on the belief that all those who want to stay be given an automatic extra year on their current contract if they want it and i mean everyone of the 12. The club owes that that much in the least.

And as a finishing note i bill be standing behind the club 100%. The have screwed the players and the supporters but they are the club i love. I will be at the Gold Coast for the first game and at as many Melbourne games as i can supporting the club even though i know we are in for another rough year. Maybe i am having a flash back to the seventies when i first started going and we where not much but i think good times are still ahead. Maybe not a visit to the top as soon as we might have but some good times.

That is my take as KB would say.
 
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