No Opposition Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

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EFC 1871

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The AFL go to great lengths with the 3 strikes drug policy to ensure players aren't named in the media, and here we have a scenario where no strikes have been incurred, players have been named, and the AFL don't appear give a rat's toss bag.
Bumping this because it's such an under appreciated point.
 

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BrunoV

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Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm all for journalistic freedom, but I'm also for the greater good. There are times when using their position of pre-eminence in shaping people's perceptions needs to be exercised wisely. They have now cemented, prematurely, the perception among regular Johns and Janes that these players are cheats. Before the investigation that is meant to establish or debunk that very fact is released.

What 'greater good' does publishing the names achieve? Trying to prove a point and using players as pawns to do so seems incredibly childish. And what point are they even proving?

Just let the process take care of itself. The player names would ultimately have likely been released with the full report anyway. There was no need to jump the gun like this.


I'm not sure that we're establishing that the Sun did anything wrong.
 

2one2

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Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm all for journalistic freedom, but I'm also for the greater good. There are times when using their position of pre-eminence in shaping people's perceptions needs to be exercised wisely. They have now cemented, prematurely, the perception among regular Johns and Janes that these players are cheats. Before the investigation that is meant to establish or debunk that very fact is released.

What 'greater good' does publishing the names achieve? Trying to prove a point and using players as pawns to do so seems incredibly childish. And what point are they even proving?

Just let the process take care of itself. The player names would ultimately have likely been released with the full report anyway. There was no need to jump the gun like this.
Agreed - this article seems pretty silly in hindsight:
http://m.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl...andrew-demetriou/story-fni5f6kv-1226671605377

"Of course you felt for Watson as he was jeered every time he touched the ball..."

Also the discussion of "proper process" is a classic in hindsight

He does maintain his stance that he believes sport is brutal and that people should express their grievances

But geez robbo have you learnt anything?
 

DonsRule

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What is the value of the protection under the NAD scheme if it can't be extended to preventing publication following a leak?
I'd take a guess and say Essendon and the AFL could have tried to seek an injunction to suppress the information.


Anyones guess as to why.

As others have said there though, it's people higher up the chain at news corp who had the final say on the story, so they are perhaps more to blame, as is who ever leaked it. Robbo, as much as I don't think he should have ran it is a little low hanging fruit that is easy for us in the public to pick off.
 

yaco55

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I am more interested to know whether the names that were publically released from an interim/joint ASADA/AFL report - An interim report that has never been done during an ASADA investigation - Whether this means the final report is tarnished goods ? - One that ASADA can't use to issue infraction notices. !
 

DonsRule

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Here is something that crossed my mind today, the NatRat article from the age where they say he used AOD9604, though I don't think he ever specificity says he did. They mention he apparently signed a consent form for it as he left. But, (I don't have it in front of me now) NatRat was not named in teh HS article was he?


http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...murray-says-20140210-32d0o.html#ixzz2v3vqXc9y
I put my trust in Stephen Dank, retired Bomber Nathan Lovett-Murray says
Date
February 11, 2014

Jon Pierik
Sports writer with The Age
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Nathan Lovett-Murray says he was administered at least 10 injections in his lower back over two days with what he was told were legal amino acids. Photo: Sebastian Costanzo

EXCLUSIVE

Retired Essendon player Nathan Lovett-Murray has revealed that his series of injections during the club's controversial supplements program began during a pre-season training camp on the Gold Coast in 2011, and he has called for Stephen Dank to finally appear before anti-doping authorities.

In a candid interview with Fairfax Media, Lovett-Murray has become the first player to discuss in depth what was a failed supplements and injecting program, beginning in late 2011 and continuing through the 2012 season.

He said he had initially been driven to a clinic in the Gold Coast hinterland in December 2011, where he was administered at least 10 injections in his lower back over two days with what he was told were legal amino acids.

However, before leaving on the trip he had signed consent forms to be given a form of Thymosin and the prohibited anti-obesity drug AOD-9604.

Highlighting the diminished power of veteran club doctor Bruce Reid at the time, Lovett-Murray said Reid had told him on at least two occasions the injections would be useless. He said Dank and Reid were in the room when he was injected.

''They were more in the back because I had a lot of back tightness, [which] caused problems in the hamstring and calves. I would have them in the back and that area,'' Lovett-Murray said on Monday. ''It was probably about 10 over a couple of days. At the time, I felt like it helped. But Doc Reid didn't agree. He reckons there was no medical explanation for it. He didn't agree with it. But body-wise, I did.''

Lovett-Murray said he was taken to a clinic ''on the mountains, about 40 minutes outside of the Gold Coast''.

''I was told a lot of the Brisbane players used to go there, when they were winning all their premierships. I spoke to one of the Brisbane players who played there, and he said they would go there,'' he said. ''That gave me confidence. About once a week they would see [the specialist], they thought he was really good.

''He had just some sort of clinic. He gives you these injections into your muscles, it relaxes your muscle. We were always told a lot of the stuff we were taking was like amino-acid type stuff.''

Biochemist Shane Charter, a convicted drug dealer, last year claimed that he, Dank and coach James Hird discussed various substances, including vitamins, hormones and peptides, by the pool at the Sheraton Mirage in Surfers Paradise where the Bombers were staying during a pre-season camp.

Charter, who worked with Hird on nutrition during his playing days and has become a key witness for ASADA, has said the coach stressed that any supplements must be legal and not harmful to players.

Lovett-Murray said he had signed a medical consent form before leaving for the camp. ''We signed off on documents. It was more for the players' welfare and safety, it wasn't such a secret document,'' he said.

''I had done my calf a couple of times leading up to that, so we went to see a specialist who gave me these injections.

''They were to help relax the muscles a bit. From that, I felt it helped. But, in talking to the club doctor at the time, Reidy, he wasn't too sure, he felt it didn't really do anything.''

The injecting program continued on a weekly basis through the 2012 season. Asked whether he believed he had been given AOD-9604, Lovett-Murray said: ''I don't remember taking anything like that, but I think Jobe [Watson] came out and said we did.''

Watson last year admitted he took AOD-9604 but was under the belief ''that it was legal at the time. and that was actually what I was told I was being given''.

Lovett-Murray said he had repeatedly asked whether the supplements were legal. ''I had these conversations with Stephen Dank and [former high-performance boss] Dean Robinson, James Hird. They all said they were legal, they were safe. So I had no concerns whatsoever,'' he said.

That changed, however, when the club self-reported to the AFL and ASADA and it later emerged they may have been injected with a substance bought in Mexico by a Melbourne man suffering from muscular dystrophy.

''When it first came out, players were concerned, everyone was. But then the club kept us in the loop. I am pretty confident there are no players with concerns now.''

Dank has publicly stressed that all the drugs used were harmless, routine amino acids or peptides, but Essendon chairman Paul Little said at the weekend he could not yet guarantee what the players were given.

Unlike some other teammates, Lovett-Murray said he had not been taken to an anti-ageing clinic across the road from the club's Windy Hill training venue for treatment. ''There were injections throughout the year. It was always at the footy club,'' he said.

Lovett-Murray, a running half-back, played 17 matches in 2012 but only three last year before retiring and pursuing a career in indigenous music promotion with his label Payback Records.

Dank has so far refused to be interviewed by ASADA or the AFL's integrity unit. The investigation, which has led to the departures of chairman David Evans, chief executive Ian Robson and the suspensions of Hird, Reid and football chief Danny Corcoran, continues.

Dank says he will only put his case before the Federal Court, declaring last week that ''I'm not going to put myself before some kangaroo court of sport''. He has the ability to bring closure to the investigation, something Lovett-Murray would welcome for the players and a club he now works at in a mentoring role.

''I would like for him [Dank] to come and talk [to ASADA], but I know when he was at the club, I had a lot of conversations with him,'' he said. ''He said everything that was taken was legal and safe. I put my trust in him as all players do when someone comes to the club. You get to know them and find out what they are like. You can make that decision, whether you trust someone or not. Dank was someone I felt I could like.

''For him, I can probably understand why he is not talking. I think he will talk when he is ready, he doesn't have to be pressured by outside influences.''



Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...murray-says-20140210-32d0o.html#ixzz2v3vqXc9y
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...murray-says-20140210-32d0o.html#ixzz2v3vqXc9y
 

flintandtas

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I am more interested to know whether the names that were publically released from an interim/joint ASADA/AFL report - An interim report that has never been done during an ASADA investigation - Whether this means the final report is tarnished goods ? - One that ASADA can't use to issue infraction notices. !
I'm not sure if it would stop ASADA issuing infraction notices ... though it could be challenged (in court) afterwards though. There is already a fair case to say that the whole process has been compromised and this is just one aspect of it.
 

BrunoV

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Legally, probably not.

Morally, they most certainly did.

Where is the morality in humiliating the wives and children of famous men who have had affairs or more generally in chasing up every private detail of the lives of famous people?

This issue is so much bigger than what has happened to our players. Some time ago what was "interesting to the public" replaced the "public interest" as the guideline for publication and journalism has hardly played a meaningful role in society since.

But Joe Bloggs and his mates are happy for it to be that way and it is much too late to say that a publication based on what is of interest to voyeuristic readers ought not be published where publication is legal simply because it is "immoral". It rules out half of what appears in the paper each day.
 
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Doss

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Where is the morality in humiliating the wives and children of famous men who have had affairs or more generally in chasing up every private detail of the lives of famous people?

This issue is so much bigger than what has happened to our players. Some time ago what was "interesting to the public" replaced the "public interest" as the guideline for publication and journalism has hardly played a meaningful role in society since.

But Joe Bloggs and his mates are happy for it to be that way and it is much too late to say that a publication based on what is of interest to voyeuristic readers ought not be published where publication is legal because simply because it is immoral. It rules out half of what appears in the paper each day.
Your post is correct, and basically, it sums up almost to a tee what I detest about modern journalism.
 

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http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...-action-over-media-report-20140305-346lx.html
Essendon players may take legal action over media report
March 05, 2014

Dockers Captain Matthew Pavlich speaks to the media on behalf of all captains. Photo: Getty Images

Essendon captain Jobe Watson has left open the option of taking legal against News Corp newspapers for its decision to publish the names of players suspected to have taken banned drugs during the club's infamous injecting program.
...
Watson said "it had not got to that stage yet" in terms of taking legal action but, asked if he wasn't ruling it out, he replied: "We will seek the advice of the players association on that".

"In particular, what occurred in the Herald Sun on Sunday was disappointing for the players. For an ongoing investigation, for them (Sunday Herald Sun) to pre-empt by naming and showing photographs of players, for a Commonwealth investigation that was going on, that was very disappointing," he said.

Fairfax Media opted to not publish the names for ethical reasons.
 

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BrunoV

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http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...-action-over-media-report-20140305-346lx.html
Essendon players may take legal action over media report
March 05, 2014

Dockers Captain Matthew Pavlich speaks to the media on behalf of all captains. Photo: Getty Images

Essendon captain Jobe Watson has left open the option of taking legal against News Corp newspapers for its decision to publish the names of players suspected to have taken banned drugs during the club's infamous injecting program.


Just be mindful that this gets to the completely different idea of whether the publication was defamatory or whether there has been a breach of confidence and it is not about the morality of the publication (there are a number of technical parts to both defamation and breach of confidence which would not make the Sun's publication any less immoral but which could be used to successfully defend any action).
 

BrunoV

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Your post is correct, and basically, it sums up almost to a tee what I detest about modern journalism.


I can tell you we would be in heated agreement on everything you have posted, as well as other posters expressing similar sentiments, but just as we have rallied against holding James Hird to a standard of control of a coaching department that did not exist for a coach before September 2013 we can't hold the Sun to a standard of journalism that hasn't has hardly existed for 30 20 years.
 
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Mercurial89

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People suck seems to be the underlying theme I think people are starting to realize.


Also wasn't one of the higher ups in news recently allowed onto the AFL board or something? Possible that they got the names?
 

Dave

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I can tell you we would be in heated agreement on everything you have posted, as well as other posters expressing similar sentiments, but just as we have rallied against holding James Hird to a standard of control of a coaching department that did not exist for a coach before September 2013 we can't hold the Sun to a standard of journalism that hasn't existed for 30 years.
Yes, we can. Not holding people to account is what has led to the standards slipping in the first place.
 

Doss

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I can tell you we would be in heated agreement on everything you have posted, as well as other posters expressing similar sentiments, but just as we have rallied against holding James Hird to a standard of control of a coaching department that did not exist for a coach before September 2013 we can't hold the Sun to a standard of journalism that hasn't existed for 30 years.
Yeah.

I think we have every right to be disgusted when media continually descend to these levels, and as Dave said, people not being held to those standards (because of consumer demand) is what lead to this sort of thing in the first place. But in the end, we probably shouldn't be surprised by it.

Which is pretty sad, really.
 

Walesy

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Where is the morality in humiliating the wives and children of famous men who have had affairs or more generally in chasing up every private detail of the lives of famous people?
Insert photograph of starlets snatch as she's climbing out of a car.

So much of what is published today is for the buck, rather than for any concern about public interest.
 

Duckworth

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Insert photograph of starlets snatch as she's climbing out of a car.

So much of what is published today is for the buck, rather than for any concern about public interest.
I'm not sure of the picture you mean, would you mind posting it? I'm only joking.
 

JayDon

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Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm all for journalistic freedom, but I'm also for the greater good. There are times when using their position of pre-eminence in shaping people's perceptions needs to be exercised wisely. They have now cemented, prematurely, the perception among regular Johns and Janes that these players are cheats. Before the investigation that is meant to establish or debunk that very fact is released.

What 'greater good' does publishing the names achieve? Trying to prove a point and using players as pawns to do so seems incredibly childish. And what point are they even proving?

Just let the process take care of itself. The player names would ultimately have likely been released with the full report anyway. There was no need to jump the gun like this.
Bridge burning.
 

rines

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Good start by Pav and the captains.. time for it to go one step further.. time for ALL players to stand up and say "enough" on behalf of their EFC peers. I'm sure that if the Players started demanding an end to it then many supporters would follow suit..

Time for some leadership on the issue methinks.

Everyone is sick of it and it is time to move on.
 

Mercuri Rising

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This issue is so much bigger than what has happened to our players. Some time ago what was "interesting to the public" replaced the "public interest" as the guideline for publication and journalism has hardly played a meaningful role in society since.
Great point. Well said.
 

loopy_cam

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Good start by Pav and the captains.. time for it to go one step further.. time for ALL players to stand up and say "enough" on behalf of their EFC peers. I'm sure that if the Players started demanding an end to it then many supporters would follow suit..

Time for some leadership on the issue methinks.

Everyone is sick of it and it is time to move on.
Well Ted Richards tweeted his agreement. That's a start.
 
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