Play Nice Caster Semenya - To Rio and Controversy

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Wallaby said:
Simple fact is we have divisions in sport. So we have to divide competitors into divisions.

Under-age sport - it's black and white - when's your birthday?
Weight divisions - jump on the scale - black and white.
Male or Female - what do we use? Genitals? Chromosomes? DNA? Preference for reading Who magazine or Zoo magazine? Or.....hormone levels.

Draw a line. Maybe a few lines. But set the rules. And set the rules so they apply to SPORT - not to politically correct, non-discriminatory, judgemental, society fashions of the time.
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Would bet half a house that the rules regarding intersex athletes competing as women and not requiring testosterone lowering drugs will change in the future. Semenya's gold will likely become tainted in the eyes of others when they do. The bolded part is exactly what is happening right now.
 
Barry_Badrinath said:
Yes I can. It really is that simple. It might not seem fair at 0.3% of athletes who are transgender/intersex/etc but the current set up is incredibly unfair on the 50% of athletes who are female.
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This is it. Everyone is going on about Semenya's rights, but what about the poor women who are disadvantaged by this ruling? Why is one person more important than everyone else? Once again, political correctness gone mad.
 

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Adelaide Hawk said:
This is it. Everyone is going on about Semenya's rights, but what about the poor women who are disadvantaged by this ruling? Why is one person more important than everyone else? Once again, political correctness gone mad.
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Seems like the other women's rights are neglected in this case?

Even Bruce noted the sensitive nature of the 800m race
 
Adelaide Hawk said:
This is it. Everyone is going on about Semenya's rights, but what about the poor women who are disadvantaged by this ruling? Why is one person more important than everyone else? Once again, political correctness gone mad.
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Sports are a very powerful political weapon.
 
BORK said:
Would bet half a house that the rules regarding intersex athletes competing as women and not requiring testosterone lowering drugs will change in the future. Semenya's gold will likely become tainted in the eyes of others when they do. The bolded part is exactly what is happening right now.
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What about shooters that are born with amazing eyesight and extremely slow heart rates, or swimmers that produce more oxygen because they were born with abnormally large lungs etc, Caster was born intersexed but was determined to be female at birth and has she has lived her life as a female.

Do wen ban all people that are born naturally gifted freaks of nature, Bolt, Jackson, JK, Buddy, King Carey.

Caster has been attacked by the media like no other athlete previously and her Rio Gold Medal I can see will increase this attack on this young woman ten fold.

I just hope this attack will focus on the issue not Caster the individual herself, I for one will celebrate with this brave young woman today and continue to educate myself on this issue and hopefully an equal and respectful conclusion can be determined, I just ask that you also respect Caster as person and focus on the issue not the individual.
 
kirsti said:
What about shooters that are born with amazing eyesight and extremely slow heart rates, or swimmers that produce more oxygen because they were born with abnormally large lungs etc, Caster was born intersexed but was determined to be female at birth and has she has lived her life as a female.

Do wen ban all people that are born naturally gifted freaks of nature, Bolt, Jackson, JK, Buddy, King Carey.

Caster has been attacked by the media like no other athlete previously and her Rio Gold Medal I can see will increase this attack on this young woman ten fold.

I just hope this attack will focus on the issue not Caster the individual herself, I for one will celebrate with this brave young woman today and continue to educate myself on this issue and hopefully an equal and respectful conclusion can be determined, I just ask that you also respect Caster as person and focus on the issue not the individual.
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It's not about being born with freakish talent, she has a clear advantage over the women due to her unnatural hormones. Should be made to compete against the men, i don't think she'd do too badly, seems to coast against the women
 
kaiserchief13 said:
Big asterisk next to this gold medal .the silver medalist is the true winner in my eyes
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The silver medalist is also intersex. And the bronze medalist.

You have to go back to 4th place to find an athlete that wasn't intersex. The girl that deserved the gold has to go home empty handed.
 

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kirsti said:
What about shooters that are born with amazing eyesight and extremely slow heart rates, or swimmers that produce more oxygen because they were born with abnormally large lungs etc, Caster was born intersexed but was determined to be female at birth and has she has lived her life as a female.

Do wen ban all people that are born naturally gifted freaks of nature, Bolt, Jackson, JK, Buddy, King Carey.

Caster has been attacked by the media like no other athlete previously and her Rio Gold Medal I can see will increase this attack on this young woman ten fold.

I just hope this attack will focus on the issue not Caster the individual herself, I for one will celebrate with this brave young woman today and continue to educate myself on this issue and hopefully an equal and respectful conclusion can be determined, I just ask that you also respect Caster as person and focus on the issue not the individual.
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The whole issue is that Semenya isn't completely female. The whole reason for having separate competitions is because the women wouldn't be able to compete with the men (at both elite and amateur level). If you allow restrictions on who can enter the event but waive those restrictions for some competitors it makes a mockery of the competition. It would be like letting a 20 year old footballer compete in the under 14s, or a 95kg boxer compete in the flyweight division, or like enforcing a salary cap on every AFL club and then letting one club have an extra 9.8%. Completely unfair.

Semenya ran 1.55.28 in the final which is a PB. That would've finished dead last of the 50+ athletes that completed the mens 800m heats, it was 6 seconds off qualifying for the semis, more than 10 seconds of qualifying for the final, 13 seconds off medalling and 14 seconds off winning. Semenya is not an elite runner in general, he/she only posts elite times for a woman. The problem is Semenya is not entirely female. There would be a number of men all over the world that could beat Semenya over 800m that will never have athletic careers because they are not good enough. They don't get to beat up on the womens competition.
 
Barry_Badrinath said:
The silver medalist is also intersex. And the bronze medalist.

You have to go back to 4th place to find an athlete that wasn't intersex. The girl that deserved the gold has to go home empty handed.
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Why do you call the silver and bronze medalist intersex?
 
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Barry_Badrinath said:
The whole issue is that Semenya isn't completely female. The whole reason for having separate competitions is because the women wouldn't be able to compete with the men (at both elite and amateur level). If you allow restrictions on who can enter the event but waive those restrictions for some competitors it makes a mockery of the competition. It would be like letting a 20 year old footballer compete in the under 14s, or a 95kg boxer compete in the flyweight division, or like enforcing a salary cap on every AFL club and then letting one club have an extra 9.8%. Completely unfair.

Semenya ran 1.55.28 in the final which is a PB. That would've finished dead last of the 50+ athletes that completed the mens 800m heats, it was 6 seconds off qualifying for the semis, more than 10 seconds of qualifying for the final, 13 seconds off medalling and 14 seconds off winning. Semenya is not an elite runner in general, he/she only posts elite times for a woman. The problem is Semenya is not entirely female. There would be a number of men all over the world that could beat Semenya over 800m that will never have athletic careers because they are not good enough. They don't get to beat up on the womens competition.
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Caster is legally female and deserves to be called she but if that's to hard for some refer to her by her name.

A number of world records have been broken in Rio, Caster did not break a very old world record. Her performance was no where near as dominating or record breaking as other Gold Medal Winners in Rio.
 
Barry_Badrinath said:
The whole issue is that Semenya isn't completely female. The whole reason for having separate competitions is because the women wouldn't be able to compete with the men (at both elite and amateur level). If you allow restrictions on who can enter the event but waive those restrictions for some competitors it makes a mockery of the competition. It would be like letting a 20 year old footballer compete in the under 14s, or a 95kg boxer compete in the flyweight division, or like enforcing a salary cap on every AFL club and then letting one club have an extra 9.8%. Completely unfair.

Semenya ran 1.55.28 in the final which is a PB. That would've finished dead last of the 50+ athletes that completed the mens 800m heats, it was 6 seconds off qualifying for the semis, more than 10 seconds of qualifying for the final, 13 seconds off medalling and 14 seconds off winning. Semenya is not an elite runner in general, he/she only posts elite times for a woman. The problem is Semenya is not entirely female. There would be a number of men all over the world that could beat Semenya over 800m that will never have athletic careers because they are not good enough. They don't get to beat up on the womens competition.
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I am sure the majority of the female Gold Medal Winners in Rio would beat the majority of males in the world in their chosen sport.
 
kirsti said:
Can you provide evidence of your claim?
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No's no concrete evidence on them, but there's technically no concrete evidence of Semenya either. I think the combination of them:

a) looking like men
b) running shitful times when the restrictions on hormone levels for transgenders/intersex were brought in
c) took time off when the restrictions were brought in
d) suddenly got back to their best when the restrictions on transgender athletes were removed

Obviously these gender tests are kept very private but it's pretty well known that they are.

kirsti said:
I am sure the majority of the female Gold Medal Winners in Rio would beat the majority of males in the world in their chosen sport.
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Yes they would beat the majority of people, but there are still hundreds worldwide that could beat them. Look at Jack Hale. He smashed the female world record in the 100m as a 16 year old. I was watching the javelin the other day and some of the throws were mid-50s. My dad used to throw that as a 14 year old. The difference is massive at the top level.
 
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Barry_Badrinath said:
No's no concrete evidence on them, but there's technically no concrete evidence of Semenya either. I think the combination of them:

a) looking like men
b) running shitful times when the restrictions on hormone levels for transgenders/intersex were brought in
c) took time off when the restrictions were brought in
d) suddenly got back to their best when the restrictions on transgender athletes were removed

Obviously these gender tests are kept very private but it's pretty well known that they are.



Yes they would beat the majority of people, but there are still hundreds worldwide that could beat them. Look at Jack Hale. He smashed the female world record in the 100m as a 16 year old. I was watching the javelin the other day and some of the throws were mid-50s. My dad used to throw that as a 14 year old. The difference is massive at the top level.
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You claim the Silver and bronze medalists were intersex why?
 
kirsti said:
What about shooters that are born with amazing eyesight and extremely slow heart rates, or swimmers that produce more oxygen because they were born with abnormally large lungs etc, Caster was born intersexed but was determined to be female at birth and has she has lived her life as a female.

Do wen ban all people that are born naturally gifted freaks of nature, Bolt, Jackson, JK, Buddy, King Carey.

Caster has been attacked by the media like no other athlete previously and her Rio Gold Medal I can see will increase this attack on this young woman ten fold.

I just hope this attack will focus on the issue not Caster the individual herself, I for one will celebrate with this brave young woman today and continue to educate myself on this issue and hopefully an equal and respectful conclusion can be determined, I just ask that you also respect Caster as person and focus on the issue not the individual.
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We don't have swimming categories for people with high haemoglobin counts or different categories for shooters with better eyesight.
 
Barry_Badrinath said:
The silver medalist is also intersex. And the bronze medalist.

You have to go back to 4th place to find an athlete that wasn't intersex. The girl that deserved the gold has to go home empty handed.
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Particularly heart-breaking for Melissa Bishop, as she managed to run her PB in the race as well. She was realistic coming in, expecting to win bronze if she raced at her absolute fastest (as Semanya and Niyonsaba were odds-on to be 1 and 2), and got pipped at the line.

“This racing is all going to come down to the last 50 metres, so much opens up there,” Bishop said. “It was to be expected that everybody would be there, I just didn’t think it was going to turn out like that.

“We work so hard for this stuff, fourth really sucks,” she said, before turning away, tears streaming down her face.
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kirsti said:
What about shooters that are born with amazing eyesight and extremely slow heart rates, or swimmers that produce more oxygen because they were born with abnormally large lungs etc, Caster was born intersexed but was determined to be female at birth and has she has lived her life as a female.

Do wen ban all people that are born naturally gifted freaks of nature, Bolt, Jackson, JK, Buddy, King Carey.

Caster has been attacked by the media like no other athlete previously and her Rio Gold Medal I can see will increase this attack on this young woman ten fold.

I just hope this attack will focus on the issue not Caster the individual herself, I for one will celebrate with this brave young woman today and continue to educate myself on this issue and hopefully an equal and respectful conclusion can be determined, I just ask that you also respect Caster as person and focus on the issue not the individual.
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Look we may see things differently and I stress that this is not against Semenya as an individual. If other countries respond to this by increasingly looking for intersex athletes to train the perception on this will change and likely the rules in the future. Other women athletes lose out in the mean time.

I get the feeling that if the sport Semenya is competing in had physical contact between competitors more people would shift their views on this.
 
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