Beauty & Style Cat calling?

[J_Moore]

You took creative license with interpreting what I said. I said what I said and stand by it. But what I said doesn't mean what you claim it means. I've been posting for sometime now and you would have a clear understanding of what my stance is and what my stance isn't. You only know too well my stance isn't what you claim it is.

Mate, your response to the comment little graham posted from that article ("it reinforces the notion that men have the right to objectify and treat women as sexual objects by dehumanizing, embarrassing and disempowering women publicly through sexualizing their bodies/existance" literally began "I don't think men are to blame for this".

Sorry if I'm being uncharitable.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Their mentality is one that they don't fit in and don't belong. It drives these individuals to search for a golden bullet. It must answer all the questions as to why they are failing at life but better yet redirect the blame away from the individual as to alleviate any responsibility too.

One very common way these types deal with the threat of a beautiful woman is to insist on standards of equality and uniformity and then let their rationalization hamster repackage it as a bullshit argument like "objectification!" Silly feminists. The boner, by definition, is a hub of objectifcation. As long as tallywhackers everywhere are pointing to the sky there's objectification of women going on. Deal with it.

As for the lickspittle men who subscribe to it, who knows what's going on there? Low testosterone? Closet socialists? Or maybe just the chance of getting lucky with a warthog.

 

[Chief]

Why is it the SJWs who never get laid that post shit like this?

So you think women do owe you?

 

[Chief]

One very common way these types deal with the threat of a beautiful woman

You're weird.

 

[Chief]

I've been getting the same thing, along with a few other people. Come on Chief . I paid for platinum membership once.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/images-not-appearing-in-post.1081710/

 

[John Dawh]

Mate, your response to the comment little graham posted from that article ("it reinforces the notion that men have the right to objectify and treat women as sexual objects by dehumanizing, embarrassing and disempowering women publicly through sexualizing their literally began "I don't think men are to blame for this".

Sorry if I'm being uncharitable.

1. How does that or anything else translate to "if women dress in a certain way, they deserve to be hit on". I don't think that, never said it, nor implied it.

2. I don't think me are to blame for this. Who do you think buys Myley Cyrus records? She's not acting like a little tramp to titillate young males. She tramps it up and guess who buys her records? Yep, young girls. The Steph Gilmore Roxy ad. Numerous Aussie female media personalities slammed that ad as "made by men for men". Sorry but it was made to sell to young women. And it worked because it resembled all the trampy music video made by female artists to market to young girls.

You may claim that the people making the videos are record exec males and you'd probably be right. But these are the best record execs in the world and they aren't making these videos for men. Their market is young women and they go straight for the target.

Sure, men like strippers and pr0n and naked women but you give a female tennis player a chance to do a glamour shoot and they'll be all over it. And let's not forget women's magazines: there's an awful lot of commentary about celebrities and their appearance. Men aren't reading these and saying "gee, Scarlett Johanseen looks hideous in that dress and what was she thinking with those stripes. Makes her look fat".

When Lisa Wilkinson sits on morning TV and claims she and other women are pressured by men to look good and diet and wear the right dress etc, do you think it occurs to her the pressure is way more from women?

And do you think she would be in that role if she was ugly? Women from day dot judge each other on looks. Somehow men get all the blame because we like strippers and pr0n.

 

[J_Moore]

rationalization hamster

Do you not feel even slightly embarrassed when you type that?

 

[John Dawh]

Do you think men see women as sexual objects?

I'm not asking you what you think is right or wrong, I'm just asking if you think men are wired liked that or not. Do you think it's true that men ask themselves, with every girl they meet, whether they would shag them or not?

It's not what some people are going to want to hear, and there is an onus to for men to keep this in check as it is offensive to be overt about it. But that doesn't mean that it's not happening.

And don't worry, girls think the nice bouncer at the club doesn't want to bone them so this will go over their heads.

 

[Bardo State]

What you're dealing with is an arena of misfits and defectives constantly on the attack, because their egos are heavily invested in their idelogy. It's their religion.

People like you, on the other hand, (normal people), assess their value more broadly, because their egos don't depend on everyone else subscribing to their warped world view.

Feminists fantasize that by lecturing you about made-up horseshit theories like "**** shaming," "fat shaming" "rape culture" and "patriarchal oppression" they can remodel the sexual market to suit their every emotional whim, while restricting yours to the full extent of the femcampaigner law.

Don't try and understand their motives. Normal people can't.

**** shaming is definitely a thing and a problem. Patriarchal oppression is historically significant. It's a pretty extreme label to use now but it is important to understand it historically as it sets the tone and the constructs for much of current sexual discrimination. Rape culture is more nuanced and rarely ever discussed intelligently. Look, I don't consider cat calling much of a big deal really. People should be free to talk to someone politely as they wish, be they making romantic advances or otherwise. You can't describe any and all unwanted attention as harassment because it's just impractical. People who yell across the street or deride women for not responding positively to their advances are ****-heads and I believe they are pretty widely regarded as such. I don't think there is an air of acceptability that would make it a cultural problem as such and I also think that there are far more pressing and tangible areas from which a feminist perspective and discussion could benefit.

But referring to feminists as an 'other' and distinctly separate from 'normal' shows that you have very little understanding of the term or its uses beyond what you choose to read and consume just to be upset by and feel high and mighty about (I'm not saying you're bad for that, we all do it to some degree). If you don't think that there are areas in society where women are disadvantaged or even put in danger because of their gender then you're blind. If you do see that but still don't understand the prevalence of feminism, then you're just an arse-hole.

 

[Slippery Pete]

When Lisa Wilkinson sits on morning TV and claims she and other women are pressured by men to look good and diet and wear the right dress etc, do you think it occurs to her the pressure is way more from women?

Wilkinson is just trying to give herself a fighting chance against the younger, hotter, tighter Sylvia Jeffreys.

Look folks, it's a war on women! Declared and fought tooth & nail - by...........women!! Wait, what?

In other news, does your boner care what Wilkinson thinks?

Neither does mine.

 

[J_Moore]

Do you think men see women as sexual objects?

I'm not asking you what you think is right or wrong, I'm just asking if you think men are wired liked that or not. Do you think it's true that men ask themselves, with every girl they meet, whether they would shag them or not?

It's not what some people are going to want to hear, and there is an onus to for men to keep this in check as it is offensive to be overt about it. But that doesn't mean that it's not happening.

And don't worry, girls think the nice bouncer at the club doesn't want to bone them so this will go over their heads.

Are these questions directed at me? Why am I being asked them? Why do my answers matter?

I was saying your initial responses in this thread pretty much read as "women get treated as sexual objects because they sexualise themselves to get attention", ie: it's their fault. I don't think that's true, or fair. I think most of it comes from men. I think a lot of it is probably hard-wired (objectification is probably an inherent part of sexuality). But how that expresses itself is up to men, and a lot of men don't feel any need to control it because they don't see a problem with it. I don't think a great deal of it has to do with how women dress, at least most of the time. The girl in that video is wearing jeans and a t-shirt, but legends like Slippery Pete still reckon she's dressed like a ****.

My more general comment in this thread is I think people who claim women don't harassed in the street regularly in Australia are either lying, naive, wilfully ignorant, or never talk to women.

And, finally, since people started talking about rape culture, I was just pointing out that sexual violence exists on a spectrum, is actually pretty common, and probably affects more people than a lot of posters in here realise. I don't particularly care to defend the term or the concept or anything like that, 'cause I don't think about it all that much, but thought it was worth pointing out that the idea doesn't refer to some theory that all men are secretly Bilal Skaf.

 

[John Dawh]

Wilkinson is just trying to give herself a fighting chance against the younger, hotter, tighter Sylvia Jeffreys.

Look folks, it's a war on women! Declared and fought tooth & nail - by...........women!! Wait, what?

In other news, does your boner care what Wilkinson thinks?

Neither does mine.

I don't mind Lisa Wilkinson and consider her quite balanced and reasonable so was disappointed when she blamed men for the whole womanhood thing about pressure to look and dress good.

This is also part of the problem - main stream women who don't identify themselves as feminists are buying into it. And men are pretty much hamstrung and can't say "hey wait a second, have you thought about this?"

 

[John Dawh]

Are these questions directed at me? Why am I being asked them? Why do my answers matter?

I was saying your initial responses in this thread pretty much read as "women get treated as sexual objects because they sexualise themselves to get attention", ie: it's their fault.

It depends how it's delivered. It can be presented as "women dress sexualised so deserve to be hit on" is problematic simply because of the word "deserve". It insinuates punishment. I don't subscribe to this.

But let's be realistic:

1. Women do sexualise themselves to get attention from men. There is nothing wrong with this. What is wrong are things like the Slutwalk which voice that women can dress as slutty as they want and men shouldn't hit o them. This is silly. The more slutty you dress, the more you are communicating to men you are up for it and the more you will get hit on. Unfortunately as soon as this is pointed out it gets misrepresented as "but you said I deserved for that gy to grab my arse because I was wearing a short dress". It's never okay to grab a girl's arse uninvited. But that doesn't change the fact that the shorter your clothes, the more attention from men.

2. Again, it's not about fault or blame. If women dress to sexualise themselves (again, nothing wrong with this) to attract men (either to impress a guy or validate their own desirability) then it's a bit rich complaining about being hit on BY THE GUYS THEY AREN'T INTERESTED IN. Girls just can't expect to go out and only have the men they are interested in hit on them. It's absurd, but this is what many are complaining about.

I think most of it comes from men.

The female social pecking order is determined by looks. This starts in early primary school. I not only have known this for a long time but I've seen it from a close distance. This has nothing to do with men. This carried throughout women's lives (go read Woman's Day where they have 10 celebs line up with scores out of 10).

And when women sexualise themselves for men, it's not because men have somehow pressured or exploited them into it. Sometimes it's plain old pea-henning and other times it's about self validation.

The only time it's for men is when we're paying for it (strippers, hookers, pr0n stars etc)

My more general comment in this thread is I think people who claim women don't harassed in the street regularly in Australia are either lying, naive, wilfully ignorant, or never talk to women.

But what does harrassed mean? If you listen to many Aussie women complaining they are saying "hey buddy, how dare you try to strike up a conversation with me at the supermarket! As if I'm interested"

That's not harassment. That's just dudes trying to pick up or meet a girl. Sure it's annoying for many women, but that's our social construct (guys chase girls).

I don't think girls should be complaining about this. As long as it's not untowards then women have to accept this is how it works, and furthermore be thankful that they are being approached because you can guarantee it's a better option hat being a girl who nver gets approached or hit on.

"Oh, it's such a drag being pretty. I'm wanted and desirable and the envy of many women but I just think I'm entitled to only be approached but hot and/or rich successful guys that I'm interested in".

It really is a ridiculous and indulgent point of view.

 

[J_Moore]

But what does harrassed mean? If you listen to many Aussie women complaining they are saying "hey buddy, how dare you try to strike up a conversation with me at the supermarket! As if I'm interested"

That's not harassment. That's just dudes trying to pick up or meet a girl. Sure it's annoying for many women, but that's our social construct (guys chase girls).

I don't think girls should be complaining about this. As long as it's not untowards then women have to accept this is how it works, and furthermore be thankful that they are being approached because you can guarantee it's a better option hat being a girl who nver gets approached or hit on.

I don't think that's what most women are complaining about when they talk about being harassed. At least not in my experience. Sort of things that have happened to partner/family/friends (and that frankly gets my goat a bit)

- "****en smile you bitch"
- "show us your ****"
- "that's a fat arse"
- "****in ****"
- having a big ****er block them in on a crowded bus and spend the next 10 minutes staring down their top
- being called over to a parked car, to discover a bloke having a wank
- groped on train
- cameraphone up skirt on the station steps
- hand up dress at 7pm at a pub
- followed home from train

That sort of thing. Which seems to happen an awful lot to women I know, to the point where they talk about it to each other casually.

 

[John Dawh]

I don't think that's what most women are complaining about when they talk about being harassed.

They most certainly are. I wouldn't have a problem if it were anything else.

At least not in my experience. Sort of things that have happened to partner/family/friends (and that frankly gets my goat a bit)

- "****en smile you bitch"
- "show us your ****"
- "that's a fat arse"
- "****in ****"
- having a big goose block them in on a crowded bus and spend the next 10 minutes staring down their top
- being called over to a parked car, to discover a bloke having a wank
- groped on train
- cameraphone up skirt on the station steps
- hand up dress at 7pm at a pub
- followed home from train

That sort of thing. Which seems to happen an awful lot to women I know, to the point where they talk about it to each other casually.

These all range from highly inappropriate to sexual assault. This stuff is just not on but at the same time a million miles from what I'm talking about.

 

[J_Moore]

They most certainly are. I wouldn't have a problem if it were anything else.


These all range from highly inappropriate to sexual assault. This stuff is just not on but at the same time a million miles from what I'm talking about.

Well we're talking at cross purposes then

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Floor Pie The Coup Kynge of Begrem scon cartwright

Menzelbreakdown, why did you tag me?

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Honestly, man. You might think "rape culture is ridiculous, me and my mates never sit around and decide to rape someone", but the sad reality is that you'll know both victims and perpetrators. It's very wide spread, and it cuts across class, race, etc. It's not hysterical to acknowledge that.

I say without hesitation that NONE of my mates has digitally r*ped a woman, perhaps you should stop hanging around with lowlifes.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

You're on the spectrum, Bunsen.

The guy who ranted saying young men being friends with women are whipped losers yet admitted he lets his wife choose his social circle?

 

[J_Moore]

I say without hesitation that NONE of my mates has digitally r*ped a woman, perhaps you should stop hanging around with lowlifes.

Hey I'm almost certain none of my close friends have either, but I've certainly come across my fair share of shit blokes and I bet you have as well. They're not all rockspiders living in single-room housing commission flats.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

 

[The Coup]

This is a circular argument.

The guy only knows if his attention is welcome or not after he has disturbed the girl.

Serious? You think all men have that little social awareness or self awareness?

Just as a percentage, how many people use this forum that are "on the spectrum" so to speak?

 

[louismaxwell]

As expected, you could not find a quote to back up your claim. Who are my 'mates' here?

Floor Piece seems to like you very much

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Floor Piece seems to like you very much

 

[John Dawh]

As expected, you could not find a quote to back up your claim. Who are my 'mates' here?

Happy to admit you have never said that. But you've quoted my posted and claimed I'm wrong without being specific. You really are a massive knob trying to start a fight for the sake of starting a fight.