Cats call for draw re-vamp

[gocatsgo]

According to Brian Cook in this mornings Geelong Advertiser, Geelong are looking for a draw re-vamp, but doesn't want to see Essendon and Collingwood lose ANZAC day.

What he wants to see is less blockbusters and a more even system. This season, Collingwood, Richmond, Essendon and Carlton all play each other twice, while teams like Geelong, Kangaroos, Melbourne, Bulldogs, StKilda and Hawthorn are all given games that don't attract crowds such as home matches against Port, WCE, Fremantle and Brisbane. Most only play one of these bigger drawing sides once. Geelong's home matches this season are against WCE, North, Port, Rich, Dogs, StK and Bris. Only Richmond you would say wold sell out the ground.

Those that do play the sides twice such as Geelong v Carlton (7 & 22) StKilda v Carlton (5 & 20) always have to play at least one game at Optus Oval, or Essendon at Colonial where only Essendon supporters can go to the match. Geelong plays Carlton at the MCG in round 7 as there own home game yet have to travel to Carlton in round 22, why can't that be at the MCG? Another example was when last season Geelong played Essendon as there home game, both siddes were in the finals yet the game was played at Colonial where only 45,000 could attend, if the game had have been at the MCG, the crowd would have been closer to 75,000. In the last decade Geelong and Essendon have averaged 66,000 at the MCG.

Add to that, sides like Essendon because they play bigger matches against Victorian teams get less Interstate trips - only 4 this season, while North Melbourne have already played Brisbane and this week Adelaide away from home. Geelong have played 23 out of 24 interstate matches in the past four seasons and StKilda has played 24 out of 24, including North Melbourne every year since they played a few games in Sydney, this year it is Canberra.

Brian Cook wants to lose a few blockbuster games that reap in the money for the financially better off clubs. Games such as Richmond v Collingwood, Carlton v Essendon and all other mixes. He concedes that Collingwood v Essendon should remain on ANZAC day that way, they play each otehr twice.

He says that struggling clubs are finding it hard to find $50,000 here and there while sides likes Essendon get upwards of $750,000 for home matches that are blockbusters.

He believes that this will be the determining factor that sees Victorian clubs go to the wall. And if that is the case, we only have the AFL and the greedy bigger clubs to blame.

 

[JUBJUB]

Essendon do get an advantage playing Collingwood twice a year compared to other teams playing Collingwood once.
Essendon get an extra 4 points

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"FIGHTING WITH ALL OUR MIGHT"

 

[Jars458]

Crows play 10 interstate matches a year

Stop your whining Geelong.

 

[JUBJUB]

JARS458
You dickhead.

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"FIGHTING WITH ALL OUR MIGHT"

 

[gocatsgo]

Jars, I think you're missing the point.

The Crows have got 40,000 members and the best set up of any team in the Competition. They always attract sell-out crowds and have got more money than every Victorian team put together.

WCE are the same, Brisbane are financially better off thanks to the 5mil carrot put up for the merger and it's no secret that Sydney were given hand outs to survive. Port and Fremantle are only new to the competition so they are still finding their feet.

The difference between Victorian and non-victorian clubs is that interstate clubs can attract a whole state of support. Whereas Victorian clubs have to fight along with 9 others to attract their market share.

The problem is, why should lesser clubs have to play interstate matches while higher profile clubs get to play in front of their supporters every week almost.

Every club gets 11 home matches, 12 if you are in Adelaide and Perth where the Derbys cancel each other out. The question is, Why do sides like Essendon, Carlton, Collingwood and to a lesser extent Richmond get home matches against each other when sides such as Geelong, StKilda, Bulldogs get there home matches against sides like Freo, Port, Adelaide, Bulldogs, StKilda who traditionally don't draw big crowds.

Essendon, Colligwood, Carlton and Richmond, 44 possible away games, 16 teams. Every other side should play a minimum of 2 of these sides twice, most should play 3 of these sides twice. That way, the whole competition is evened up.

PS After Brian Cook has come out this week, there is no doubt that Geelong will probably get Essendon, Carlton and Collingwood twice next season.

 

[Jars458]

Gocastsgo you are correct in what you are saying.

The big Vic clubs get the advantage through the draw.

BUT -

If Victoria can't support that many teams well its clear to see the competition needs to be reduced accordingly and then each team can play each other TWICE.

Hard decisions have to be made. I know its easy for me to say as the Crows would never be dropped from the competition. My SANFL side West Torrens had to merge with Woodville to survive and we have made the finals every year except one.

Reality is a hard task master

The reality is that some of the Melbourne clubs will have to face this prospect.

They could do what the Wests Tigers have done in the NRL by playing a merged side in the main comp and seperate sides in the reserves and underage to keep their identity.

I know this is not popular, but its a dog eat dog world at the moment.

Also the standard of the comp would improve as there would be less clubs for the better players to be spread amongst.

Almost every other sport has gone through this process. Time for footy to do so as well.

A 12 team comp is the go. 2 for SA , 2 from WA, one from NSW one from Qld, one from Tas an six from Victoria.

Then it would be a true national competition.

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"That'll do, THAT will do...Unbelievable Darren"
Bruce... September 1997

[This message has been edited by Jars458 (edited 27 April 2001).]

 

[Grave Danger]

Originally posted by JUBJUB:
JARS458
You dickhead.

Thats...You F***ing Ugly Dickhead

 

[gocatsgo]

Jars, to continue the debate.

Victoria can support 10 AFL clubs, they have so for the last 100 years. The only difference now is that the share of support is smaller thanks to new clubs into the league.

The fact is, most Victorian clubs have a similar membership, The Bulldogs are down this season, but they said last night that 9500 hadn't resigned - That takes their tally to 24500, similar to most other clubs. Geelong have 25000 members yet 6000 have not signed up from last season. The fact is every Victorian team has got a similar ammount of supporters - The average is about 25000-30000 members for every Victorian club. So why should sides like Carlton - who by the way have a less membership base than Geelong - and the rest get advantages from the draw?

Unfortunately the league is fast becoming like modern society - The Rich get Richer, and the Poor get Poorer.

Why do you think clubs like Bulldogs, StKilda, North, Hawthorn even Collingwood and Essendon left their home gorunds? Because they couldn not keep up with the changing game. Why is Geelong in debt? because it chose to keep its home base and are now suffering for it. Carlton are similar, but they have jack bankrolling them so they will survive.

 

[CJH]

Drop the Ansett Cup.
Extend the season to 30 rounds.
We can then have as many blockbusters as we like.

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I See Sunshine On a Cloudy Day The joys of knocking off Collingwood!
Western Frontier - West Coast Preview

 

[Visro]

It should be a thirty round season with no preseason comp. If it was 30 rounds however and the intention was each club played each other twice, two clubs would have to fold or merge with other clubs. I like the idea of a thirty round season though. A 2 week break at round 15 and 1 week break at round 25 and it could work.

Vis

 

[gocatsgo]

No club would have to merge Vis as it is impossible to play yourself!

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by Grave Danger:
Thats...You F***ing Ugly Dickhead

 

[hilly]

Originally posted by Jars458:

BUT -

If Victoria can't support that many teams well its clear to see the competition needs to be reduced accordingly and then each team can play each other TWICE.

How incredibly selfish of the Kangaroos, Western Bulldogs, St Kilda and Geelong to try and stop the big clubs gaining some extra revenue

 

[CJH]

Originally posted by Visro:
It should be a thirty round season with no preseason comp. If it was 30 rounds however and the intention was each club played each other twice, two clubs would have to fold or merge with other clubs. I like the idea of a thirty round season though. A 2 week break at round 15 and 1 week break at round 25 and it could work.

Vis

Vis,

Better dust off that calculator again! 16 teams playing each other twice would be 30 rounds.


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I See Sunshine On a Cloudy Day The joys of knocking off Collingwood!
Western Frontier - West Coast Preview

 

[elt]

Originally posted by CJH:

Vis,

Better dust off that calculator again! 16 teams playing each other twice would be 30 rounds.

Obviously Vis is presuming everyone will play with themselves twice a year. The question is will the Pies be able to cut back to just twice a year?

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Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

 

[Blue Blood]

To gocatsgo-John Elliot is NOT bankrolling the club.Who ever told you that is a liar and if you made it up you are a liar.Carlton always makes profits and it's not because someone is pumping money into the club like what is happening at other clubs.Get your facts right before you start spreading lies.If anyone is donating money it would be for player facilities or a donation for end off year trip not because we have made a loss or are in debt.

 

[carb70]

gocatsgo, thats the whole idea the AFL wants clubs to go to the wall so they can have a 14 or even a 12 team comp. If that is the case then the draw will be fair because every team will play each twice. Sorry to tell you but AFL is now an elite comp it doesn't have room for little suburban clubs any more.

 

[dees01]

Its simple, the AFL will do what ever it is that makes them the most money. Unfair but true.

 

[Dan26]

Richmond only play Carlton once this year.

Gocatsgo,

The capacity of Shell stadium is only about 27,000 at the highest. You can get well into the 20,000's when you play most interstate teams. It would be stupid for Geelong to have "home" matches against Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon unless they were at the MCG.

I'm pretty sure that the Cats get as much from 20,000 at Shell as they do with 55,000 at the MCG. Your crowds at Shell are pretty consistent and in the low to mid 20,000's (provided there is no live TV coverage) no matter who you play there. What's wrong with the Cats being scheduled to have home matches against all 6 interstate teams? Crowds at Shell are about he same no matter who you play right? (eg 22,000 against West Coast in Round 1), and it frees up the MCG for use for more blockbuster games, some of which can even involve Geelong, with their remaining 5 home games.

You're making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill. The last time Collingwood visited Shell Stadium, the crowd was 27,000, which is only a few thousand more than what you get if you play an interstate side. Geelong's draw is fine. You have the huge bonus of a home ground advanatge, combined with minimal interstate travel. You only travel 5, or so times a year out of 22, and you get a home ground advantage as well.

Which other club gets BOTH benefits. The interstate clubs have a home ground advantage, yes. But they have to travel 10 or 11 times. Geelong get home ground advantage AND minimal interstate travel. You have it all. Don't complain.