Cats just can't stay the distance

Sttew

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http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/cats-just-cant-stay-the-distance-20130409-2hjf2.html

This has baffled me for years (but I haven't lost sleep over it!) - why is it that only two Geelong players have reached the 300 game milestone, the most recent being Ian Nankervis some 30 years ago?

Looking at the current list it is difficult to see any of our players reaching the milestone. Selwood is still 24 and has played 137 games but will his body hold up?

So why is it? Is it because we play such a demanding style of game? Is it because life after football is better in Geelong? Or is it because of the club's intelligent recruiting, we simply have not needed experienced players to keep on keeping on, a la Western Bulldogs?

Thoughts?
 

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thejester

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#2
How many players across the league have made 300 in recent memory? I think it's just incredibly difficult to do in the modern era - the intensity of the game breaks players and their bodies.
 

Sttew

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Here is a list of the 330 gamers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_VFL/AFL_players_to_have_played_300_games


GamesPlayerClub (games at club)Career span
426 Michael Tuck Hawthorn (426) 1972–1991
403 Kevin Bartlett Richmond (403) 1965–1983
383 Robert Harvey St. Kilda (383) 1988–2008
378 Simon Madden Essendon (378) 1974–1992
375 Craig Bradley Carlton (375) 1986–2002
367* Dustin Fletcher Essendon (367*) 1993–2013
366 Bernie Quinlan Footscray (177)
Fitzroy (189) 1969–1986
364 Brad Johnson Western Bulldogs (364) 1994–2010
359 John Blakey Fitzroy (135)
North Melbourne (224) 1985–2002
356 Bruce Doull Carlton (356) 1969–1986
356 Paul Roos Fitzroy (269)
Sydney Swans (87) 1982–1998
350 Doug Hawkins Footscray (329)
Fitzroy (21) 1978–1995
346* Brent Harvey North Melbourne (346*) 1995–2013
341 Chris Grant Western Bulldogs (341) 1990–2007
340 Andrew McLeod Adelaide (340) 1995–2010
336 John Rantall South Melbourne (260)
North Melbourne (70)
Fitzroy (6) 1963–1980
333 David Cloke Richmond (219)
Collingwood (114) 1974–1991
333 Kevin Murray Fitzroy (333) 1955–1974
332 Justin Madden Essendon (45)
Carlton (287) 1980–1996
332 Leigh Matthews Hawthorn (332) 1969–1985
329 Gary Dempsey Footscray (207)
North Melbourne (122) 1967–1984
328 John Nicholls Carlton (328) 1957–1974
328 Barry Round Footscray (135)
South Melbourne (193) 1969–1985
325 Jason Akermanis Brisbane Bears (38)
Brisbane Lions (210)
Western Bulldogs (77) 1995–2010
325 Ian Nankervis Geelong (325) 1967–1983
324 Scott West Western Bulldogs (324) 1993–2008
324 Paul Salmon Essendon (224)
Hawthorn (100) 1983–2002
323 Nathan Burke St. Kilda (323) 1987–2003
321* Adam Goodes Sydney Swans (321*) 1999–2013
321 Tyson Edwards Adelaide (321) 1995–2010
321 Stewart Loewe St. Kilda (321) 1986–2002
321 Ted Whitten Footscray (321) 1951–1970
320 Dick Reynolds Essendon (320) 1933–1951
318 Marcus Ashcroft Brisbane Bears (152)
Brisbane Lions (166) 1989–2003
314* Simon Black Brisbane Lions (314*) 1998–2013
313 Terry Daniher South Melbourne (19)
Essendon (294) 1976–1992
313 Roger Merrett Essendon (149)
Brisbane Bears (164) 1978–1996
313 Tony Shaw Collingwood (313) 1977–1994
312 Jack Dyer Richmond (312) 1931–1949
312 Stephen Silvagni Carlton (312) 1985–2001
312 Mark Ricciuto Adelaide (312) 1993–2007
311 Ben Hart Adelaide (311) 1992–2006
311 Glenn Archer North Melbourne (311) 1992–2007
307 Tim Watson Essendon (307) 1977–1994
306 David Neitz Melbourne (306) 1993–2008
306 Gordon Coventry Collingwood (306) 1920–1937
306 Alastair Lynch Fitzroy (120)
Brisbane Bears (32)
Brisbane Lions (154) 1988–2004
306 Wayne Schimmelbusch North Melbourne (306) 1973–1987
306 Paul Williams Collingwood (189)
Sydney Swans (117) 1991–2006
306 Adam Simpson North Melbourne (306) 1995–2009
305 Shane Crawford Hawthorn (305) 1993–2008
304 Russell Greene St. Kilda (120)
Hawthorn (184) 1974–1988
303* Jude Bolton Sydney Swans (303*) 1999–2013
303 Michael O'Loughlin Sydney Swans (303) 1995–2009
303 Chris Langford Hawthorn (303) 1983–1997
302 Don Scott Hawthorn (302) 1967–1981
302 Luke Power Greater Western Sydney (20)
Brisbane Lions (282) 1998-2012
301 Shannon Grant Sydney Swans (58)
North Melbourne (243) 1995–2008
301 Len Thompson Collingwood (268)
South Melbourne (20)
Fitzroy (13) 1965–1980
300 Francis Bourke Richmond (300) 1967–1981
300 Barry Breen St Kilda (300) 1965–1982
300 Garry Foulds Essendon (300) 1974–1989
300 Mick Martyn North Melbourne (287)
Carlton (13) 1988–2003
300 Kelvin Moore Hawthorn (300) 1970–1984
300 John 'Sam' Newman Geelong (300) 1964–1980
300 Rohan Smith Western Bulldogs (300) 1992–2006
300 Gavin Wanganeen Essendon (127)
Port Adelaide (173) 1991–2006
 

CatAttack84

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#5
I guess Peter Hanlon is trying to keep his job and fill his article quota. What a boring article to write during a period of so much more happenings in the AFL. Love it that some people don't need to work for a living.
 

Hoffy95

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#6
Probably indicative of the strength of Geelong sides over the years that players getting towards the end of their careers are not so much retiring or their bodies not holding up, but they are getting pushed out by better, younger players and/or youth policies.

In weaker sides the older players keep getting a game because they are either still good enough to warrant it or the team needs them there for their leadership above all else.

Another factor is that maybe Geelong players aren't selfish and are calling time when when the time is right, not just playing on to hit a milestone at the expense of a kid getting a game like some blokes do.
 

cats_09

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#7
Another factor is that maybe Geelong players aren't selfish and are calling time when when the time is right, not just playing on to hit a milestone at the expense of a kid getting a game like some blokes do.
Isn't that along the lines of what Harley said when he retired on 198 games? I think I remember Harley saying something along the lines that he had opportunities to reach 200 games in 2009, but his body wouldn't hold up, and even though Thompson did offer his the chance to play on in 2010 to reach 200 games he said he wouldn't take the spot of a kid on the list.

I'm sure that the club would have offered another year to guys like Harley & Scarlo if they asked for it, but respected their decisions to retire when they did.
 

dazbroncos

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Moderator #8
The article kind of pissed me off. It made it seem we dont support our long time players which is crap.
If you look at Fletcher, who in Essendon's 50 would push him out. They got bupkis.

Scarlett admitted as much that he was toast by mid year last year and another go around would have been pointless.
Lingy was cooked too. Dasher was the closest and still viable but he got caught by the best 22 situation with an angle to youth.
I was a strong supporter of him getting another go but after 2011 and missing the flag he pulled the pin.

I reckon Boris and Jimmy could make it but as they have both eluded to, individual stats aren't as important to them. Premierships are. And if that means getting off the list to get someone else on it who could make 250 games themselves, then so be it.

Just another reason why Scarlo said we are the best club going around.

And not that it correlates, but what have Richmond done since their great 400 gamer retired....

Go Catters
 

Aussiemac82

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#9
Quality over quantity.

Sports science and list management are the two major factors IMO.

How many finals appearances in the last 8 years alone? Our senior players have had a number of punishing finals games on top of H/A season. "General soreness" has been used to manage these players recovery.

The requirement to have a balanced list. 18- 22 , 22-26 , 26-30 , 30 + yr need to be managed effectively to ensure the right amount of youth vs experience. FWIW, GWS and GCS have come at the right time. Allows us to play more kids in these matches ergo seniors more likely to miss these games or not be rushed in to play them. Dees, Power and Dogs are more likely to see some of our juniors play in these games.

Players returning from injury no longer need to be rushed (SJ for GF's allowed)

Suspensions has played a part for some players missing milestone.

I am more excited at the prospect of 6-8 years of quality football from Menzel than say 10 mediocre years from a Colin Sylvia.

Our VFL structure is one of the most vital development parts of the club and is utilised that way.
 

MC Extra Dollop

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#10
Probably indicative of the strength of Geelong sides over the years that players getting towards the end of their careers are not so much retiring or their bodies not holding up, but they are getting pushed out by better, younger players and/or youth policies.

In weaker sides the older players keep getting a game because they are either still good enough to warrant it or the team needs them there for their leadership above all else.
I reckon there would be something in that at both ends of a players career, Hoffy. I mean, even though a lot has been made of the fast-tracking we did with Hawkins and Varcoe, they were still in and out of the side until about their third seasons. Despite them being 'fast-tracked', they could probably have had another 25-30 games to their credit by their third years in a weaker side. Selwood is about the only one that I can remember who has commanded a spot in the seniors, almost from day 1. I think Ablett's about the only other one from our premiership sides who wouldn't have 30+ reserves games on his resume and he's going to absolutely cruise to 300 at this rate (albeit at a different club).

Milburn, Scarlett and Riccardi all could have arguably hung on for 300, with Riccardi and Milburn both on track heading into their final seasons. And I'm sure Riccardi would sometimes wonder 'what if?', considering he retired at the end of 2006. At the moment, the smart money would be on Enright to be the next one to give it a nudge (and perhaps another to fall just - 15 games or so - short, if he retires at the end of 2014).

I think, in some ways, a few recent players (especially Adelaide's crop of McLeod, Hart, Ricciuto and Edwards) have clouded the picture of just how tough it is to get there. Neitz was Melbourne's first and I believe Goodes was the only South Melbourne/Sydney player to reach the milestone entirely at that club. It's basically fifteen years with minimal injuries and no reserves apprenticeship. Bloody tough to do. You could actually look at it the other way, that we've only had 32 players to make it to 200+ games with the club and 17 of those have played at least part of their careers since the start of 1996.
 

MC Extra Dollop

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#11
Geez...after reading the article, I reckon some thicker skins might be required. It's hardly having a go at Geelong. Maybe if the article was in the Addy, you'd think 'WTF?', but it's highly likely that the casual AFL observer wasn't aware of how long it had been since we'd produced a 300 gamer. If the same article had been written about Richmond, or St Kilda, or Carlton, I'd find it reasonably interesting.
 

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#14
I guess Peter Hanlon is trying to keep his job and fill his article quota. What a boring article to write during a period of so much more happenings in the AFL. Love it that some people don't need to work for a living.
I'm a big fan of Hanlon's writing. I look forward to Tagger every Saturday and had a great chuckle RE: his beard piece last week on Hump Day. In addition, he often gets an off kilter interview published every now and again and his work with the Tennis etc. is top notch.

Personally, I love reading stuff like this even more when the entire paper is full of Melbourne and the Bombers comings and goings.

Good read
 
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#15
There is definitely a culture at the club now that suggests no one will make it.
Harley started it by pulling the pin on 199.

You cant be hidden in the modern game.
Sam Newman and Nankervis would never have made it to 300 under the current accountability levels.
 

Sttew

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There is definitely a culture at the club now that suggests no one will make it.
Harley started it by pulling the pin on 199.

You cant be hidden in the modern game.
Sam Newman and Nankervis would never have made it to 300 under the current accountability levels.
Nankervis may have, but agree, Newman was nursed through the 300 barrier.
 

Claude Balls

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#17
Interesting enough, but ultimately it's because the club, as several people have already pointed out, don't allow blokes to do a Robert Harvey. I.e. play 50 bad games at the end of an otherwise distinguished career. Well, the club either doesn't let them, or the kids simply supplant them.
 

MC Extra Dollop

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#22
Interesting enough, but ultimately it's because the club, as several people have already pointed out, don't allow blokes to do a Robert Harvey. I.e. play 50 bad games at the end of an otherwise distinguished career. Well, the club either doesn't let them, or the kids simply supplant them.
He may not have been the force that he was throughout the 90s, but I still think Harvey was more than worthy of a spot in St Kilda's team, at the time of his retirement. In fact, I think that's another issue as players close in on 300: all but the absolute cream of the crop will not be quite the superstars they once were. It's partly an ego thing, whether they can handle the change from being one of the top five players in the side without question, to just being part of the supporting cast. And it's a balancing act. I wonder if Mick Martyn would just retire on 290-something games and remain a one-club player, if he had his time again. His legacy was slightly tarnished by his stint at Carlton to get him over the line for 300 games.
 
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#23
Like people have said, it's more to do with our list management and the rotation/transition of playing groups. No point hanging on to 250 game players who are cooked when there are plenty of youngsters coming through the ranks who need to be developed (we've seen this in the last 2-3 years). Playing lists need to constantly tick over and evolve, especially in the modern game, and one way of doing that is by implementing youth policies which force out veterans.

Even more so is that cracking 300 is becoming increasingly difficult nowadays. More and more players are just simply buggered by the time they reach the twilight of their careers, which I know was the case for Scarlett, Harley, and Ling. Due to the intensity and physicality of footy now their bodies simply don't hold up as well later in the careers.
 

Claude Balls

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#25
He may not have been the force that he was throughout the 90s, but I still think Harvey was more than worthy of a spot in St Kilda's team, at the time of his retirement. In fact, I think that's another issue as players close in on 300: all but the absolute cream of the crop will not be quite the superstars they once were. It's partly an ego thing, whether they can handle the change from being one of the top five players in the side without question, to just being part of the supporting cast. And it's a balancing act. I wonder if Mick Martyn would just retire on 290-something games and remain a one-club player, if he had his time again. His legacy was slightly tarnished by his stint at Carlton to get him over the line for 300 games.
He was pretty bad for the last two years there, and I reckon if St Kilda had been more youth orientated he'd have retired earlier.
 
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