Autopsy Cats lose to GWS by 4 points

[Art Vandelay_]

Broke the golden rule and watched losing replay.

 

[Mattttty]

Has Jeremy Cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

32

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

ever done much damage starting in the midfield at centre bounce? I've been watching the Cats for a long time and I can't remember it. He was useless there against GWS early. And while obviously a brilliant player, he doesn't seem to have the right traits to perform well there to me.

I guess it feels like one of those things people - including Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

49

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

- talk about sometimes when they're saying how special he is (that he can play forward, up the ground, and at centre bounce) but can someone point to a game where he had any kind of significant impact in there. Maybe it happened and I missed it. Or maybe it's a bit of a collective halucination that has a few people (our head coach included) under its spell. I'd love to know.

 

[Catsace]

I want bews to stay when humphries comes back. He still has it.

He can be a poor man's Wojo, he's still got good pace and handy evasiveness, and can turn a defensive rebound into 60m downfield for us. He's fit now and experienced so he's a step up from a few of the ones at the bottom end of the 22 for sure.

 

[you pick one]

This might now be the 'Oppo sides that own us at KP' space now. Dawgs have won their last two as well in Geelong.

We offered them tenancy at KP not that long ago they declined I wonder if it were offered again if it would be the same result.

 

[Baudolino]

ACCESS: Lloydy highlights 'soft, weak' Cats efforts, Bombers 'winning respect'

Damian Barrett and Matthew Lloyd with the latest news and opinions from Round 9.

www.afl.com.au

I'm glad Lloyd highlighted how soft this moment was from Cameron. I said when it happened how weak it was, completely unacceptable from a senior player to not be attacking the ball properly in a key moment like that. And then to make it worse he only put one arm out half-heartedly after the GWS player had shown more desire for the ball. Really poor.

 

[you pick one]

I've been watching the Cats for a long time. Has Jeremy Cameron ever done much damage starting in the midfield at centre bounce? I can't remember it. He was useless there against GWS early. And while obviously a brilliant player, he doesn't seem to have the right traits to perform well there to me.

I guess it feels like one of those things people - including Chris Scott - talk about sometimes when they're saying how special he is (that he can play forward, up the ground, and at centre bounce) but can someone point to a game where he had any kind of significant impact in there. Maybe it happened and I missed it. Or maybe it's a bit of a collective halucination that has a few people (our head coach included) under its spell. I'd love to know.

I remember back in the day Richmond had a forward Royce Hart a couple of time against the Cats he started up the ground I was always pleased to see that and I reckon opposition supporters think the same about Cameron out of our forward line

 

[Mr Meow]

The coaches votes + Scott's comments post game summed it up well. Our three best players on the night were all in the middle of the ground: Smith (mid), Holmes (mid), and Blicavs (ruck). We got well on top in there as Scott said once Cameron went out and Smith moved in. In this particular game the midfield was the least of our concerns despite probably being our weakest part of the ground at full strength. Decimated backline and underperforming forward line relevant to talent was what killed us (and pissing away easy shots at goal).

Spot on. Our midfield depth is poor but you really can't criticise what Blicavs, Smith, Holmes and Atkins are giving us there lately. Likewise Dempsey on the wing.

Our forward line this year has mostly been full strength and are not quite delivering. Even before the concussion Miers scoring metrics were all down. Cameron and Stengle have been a bit off it. Henry and Neale often passengers besides the odd moment. Close is not having a good year. Mannagh is - brain fades aside - but he is actually doing his best work as a defacto midfielder around the ground by being the extra at stoppages.

Dangerfield has been brilliant but sorry, I don't subscribe to the theory that his presence is causing all the others to be down on form and less efficient.

Our forward line should be a dominant point of difference as it mostly was last year. It's let us down a bit. Especially once you factor in opposition backlines rebounding and generating scoring chains at will.

 

[My Tilly]

"that damn weak midfield" being the core problem?

Our midfield is arguably the worst in the competition. Why you choose to ignore this is strange.
The fact we have had to shift Tom Stewart (who has won numerous All Australians as a half back flanker) to the middle, well, doesn't that illustrate our deficiencies?
Go back to the golden opportunity of 2024 in the preliminary final, Holmes suffers an injury and guess what, we completely capitulate as there was literally no one to pick up the slack.

Smith is a star and elite. Holmes is not there yet but getting close (drifts in an out of games). Atkins is a workhorse and B grade. Bowes, Knevitt, Clark, Bruhn . . . would they get a game at any other club other than West Coast or Richmond?


In 2022, we won the flag largely due to our midfield core of Selwood, Dangerfield, Guthrie, Smith and Duncan. They all averaged over 20 disposals per game.
This year, we have two midfielders averaging over 20 disposals per game.



..... now are you going to send me some nasty personal abuse in my inbox for having an opinion which differs to yours?

 

[Mr Meow]

He can be a poor man's Wojo, he's still got good pace and handy evasiveness, and can turn a defensive rebound into 60m downfield for us. He's fit now and experienced so he's a step up from a few of the ones at the bottom end of the 22 for sure.

Bews and Duncan were our best performing players in the backline on the weekend, which says a lot about where it's at - depleted and some others below their best.

 

[standupand]

ACCESS: Lloydy highlights 'soft, weak' Cats efforts, Bombers 'winning respect'

Damian Barrett and Matthew Lloyd with the latest news and opinions from Round 9.

www.afl.com.au

I'm glad Lloyd highlighted how soft this moment was from Cameron. I said when it happened how weak it was, completely unacceptable from a senior player to not be attacking the ball properly in a key moment like that. And then to make it worse he only put one arm out half-heartedly after the GWS player had shown more desire for the ball. Really poor.

That happens far too often with Cameron. Can do the incredible. But sometimes doesn't bother doing the basic.

 

[Seeds]

Lot's of focus so far on the negatives to come out of yesterday's game but I think there were plenty of positives.

Smith - a genuine top end star of the competition. I've been pleasantly surprised by what he's delivered. Would win our B&F and be AA if the season ended now.

Blicavs - gutsy performance in the ruck yesterday and if not for hitting the post late, he could've been the difference on the day.

Dempsey - quickly going from being an ok player to a very good one and is now getting some recognition from the media and football commentators. Has a very high ceiling if he keeps going at this rate. Our mate Kingy has him in the current AA side on a wing.

Zuthrie - Gets plenty of plaudits from Cats fans but some of his one on one work and his ability to halve a contest are surely ranked as elite across the comp.

Special mention to Chris Scott - by his own admission he got a few things wrong yesterday. The main one he mentioned was not having Bailey Smith in the middle from the start - and having Cameron in the middle instead. He owned it and he agreed that by not getting a few positional things right, it did contribute to GWS racing out of the blocks. Didn't once deflect to the players or to the coaching staff in the box.

Dempsey got plenty of recognition last year. Literally won the rising star and it didnt come from no where. He was commentators favourite.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Geelong midfield metric rankings. Criteria is team/oppo differential. Not aggregate.

Contested Possession: 8th
Clearances: 12th
Centre Clearances: 12th
Stoppage Clearances: 11th

These would be our worst numbers in these areas under Scott. But we're better in all metrics than GWS are this season.

 

[STPer18]

Our forward line should be a dominant point of difference as it mostly was last year. It's let us down a bit. Especially once you factor in opposition backlines rebounding and generating scoring chains at will.

Every forward not named Dangerfield or Mannagh has probably underperformed so far this year. Dempsey pushing forward off a wing looks more threatening than most of our permanent forwards. In a weird way it could be a positive that we've got some seriously dangerous players who have the potential to click into gear hopefully sooner rather than later. Even the younger Henry who is rightfully getting slammed effectively kicked 40 goals in each of his first two seasons with us - a huge return in today's game. Our most talented players are largely concentrated up forward, it should be our strongest line.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Our midfield is arguably the worst in the competition. Why you choose to ignore this is strange.

Have you looked at West Coast's midfield? Or Richmond's?

Smith is playing like a top 10 mid. Holmes like a top 25 mid. And Atkins is a very solid number 3 that complements them well. There's no way in the world we're even in the conversation for worst midfield in the league.

 

[Mr Meow]

Geelong midfield metric rankings. Criteria is team/oppo differential. Not aggregate.

Contested Possession: 8th
Clearances: 12th
Centre Clearances: 12th
Stoppage Clearances: 11th

These would be our worst numbers in these areas under Scott. But we're better in all metrics than GWS are this season.

Check scores from stoppage differential. Both from the GWS and season so far.

Then do the same for score differential from turnover and defensive half. Areas GWS are ranked elite in and Geelong rank terribly at.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

This stings. The 2nd column is expected score.

View attachment 2312082

Tbh i thought we'd be higher than that

 

[Lana]

Got over the disapointment of the ending, felt that they were the better team through the game. We should have stolen it, instead we found the 2 in 100 pathway to lose it.

We have so many gaps that can be exploited right now, it is a credit to the team that they holding it mostly together.
We just need to stay in touch, as our fixture eases up and we get players back we'll lingshot in the back half of the season

 

[Munich]

This might now be the 'Oppo sides that own us at KP' space now. Dawgs have won their last two as well in Geelong.

Yeah and where did it get them.

Have any of these sides beaten us there and gone on to win it? We lost to the same olds 3 times last year and almost made it to the GF.

Which we would have won comfortably.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Let us know if you guys need advice to beat GWS.

If you could lend us Libba for the match we would be greatly appreciative

 

[Commando]

I must be a Masochist..

I usually ONLY watch a replay when we lose..

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Geelong midfield metric rankings. Criteria is team/oppo differential. Not aggregate.

Contested Possession: 8th
Clearances: 12th
Centre Clearances: 12th
Stoppage Clearances: 11th

These would be our worst numbers in these areas under Scott. But we're better in all metrics than GWS are this season.

Illustrates where we are.

We're not good in there, but we're not awful either.

It's the epitome of a mediocre midfield. If you compare it to what we've had in the past, it's god awful.

It's not the worst in the competition though. That's just as outlandish as pretending it's elite.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I must be a Masochist..

I usually ONLY watch a replay when we lose..

 

[fpm84]

Illustrates where we are.

We're not good in there, but we're not awful either.

It's the epitome of a mediocre midfield. If you compare it to what we've had in the past, it's god awful.

It's not the worst in the competition though. That's just as outlandish as pretending it's elite.

I think Baz, Holmes and Atkins is a fantastic centre square trio. The problem is.... who's fourth in line? In an ideal world it'd be Guthrie / Bruhn / maybe Stewart with cameos from Dangerfield but it hasn't panned out that way.

 

[Warhorse]

I said he's got to go back to the VFL. Just adding a bit of context and some reasons why I think he's off the boil this year.

These blokes are not robots.

Sooking it up because his mate is in trouble with the police? Not buying it

 

[Kobe Gryant]

I think Baz, Holmes and Atkins is a fantastic centre square trio. The problem is.... who's fourth in line? In an ideal world it'd be Guthrie / Bruhn / maybe Stewart with cameos from Dangerfield but it hasn't panned out that way.

Absolutely, we're okay in there from a starting set, but I'm just taking it all into account.

It should improve with a few names back, but I'd say we'd be going from about 10-13 to 5-9 league wide if that eventuates.

We can cover it, but it'll never be a strength in 2025. It's not the gaping black hole some pretend it is either though.

I just think we've been blessed with such a great midfield for so long that some have forgotten what 'the worst midfield in the comp' looks like.

It's mediocre, and it's not ideal. It's nowhere near the worst in the comp though, and the stats back that up.