Autopsy Cats lose to Lions by 11 points

[DanA]

Parf may not be classy, but at his best he can be an accumulator, an extractor, and a greatb tackler. Also loves a goal.

The tackling part I'll give you but he's never really had big clearance numbers or shown the ability to accumulate.

I guess the model for Parfitt would be Tom Atkins, who shares similar qualities/limitations. They are both stocky tackling players that are agile as hell but don't have breakaway speed. Atkins' ball use is a level above though, and even then, he has had to overcome a lot with his rare determination and intensity (I don't think Parfitt shares that).

Parfitt can and has played regular AFL-level footy, but we've got better mid-paced fringe 6'0 guys in Bruhn, Atkins, and perhaps soon, even Jy Clarke. I don't think there's a long-term place for him at the Cats. It looks like we'll transition in Knevitt and Holmes as the taller bigger-bodied mid replacements (assuming they are still putting on weight.

 

[goyoucatters]

MOVE ON

You've already been warned in this thread - you're trolling is tiring. Don't want to read another word from you

Fair go, cats_09. The poster concerned is probably just bored.

After all, they can't spend any meaningful time on Big Footy discussing their team's chances of winning the flag in 2023.

 

[cats_09]

Fair go, cats_09. The poster concerned is probably just bored.

After all, they can't spend any meaningful time on Big Footy discussing their team's chances of winning the flag in 2023.

We're normally pretty relaxed, especially during the week - but when multiple mods have told an opposition poster to move on, patience wears thin

 

[goyoucatters]

We're normally pretty relaxed, especially during the week - but when multiple mods have told an opposition poster to move on, patience wears thin

All in jest, cats_09. All in jest. I see that our mods are extremely fair to opposition posters, despite some serious provocation.

Seems you just can't legislate for senseless and silly, in the end.

 

[Finknottle]

I am learning not to write off players because many times I've been proven wrong. Parfitt, Ratugolea, Bews, Kolodjashnij, Stanley, Blicavs, Miers, Cuthrie just to name a few. Better to leave it to the coaches who would factor in all sorts of things I wouldn't be aware of.

 

[Vdubs]

I am learning not to write off players because many times I've been proven wrong. Parfitt, Ratugolea, Bews, Kolodjashnij, Stanley, Blicavs, Miers, Cuthrie just to name a few. Better to leave it to the coaches who would factor in all sorts of things I wouldn't be aware of.

Zuthrie as well- 8 of them now premiership players

 

[Turbocat]

I’m told Jezza has a “bung” shoulder. Shouldn’t be playing and will have surgery post season.

Can hardly lift it above shoulder height and whenever he’s tacked or goes to ground hard, the pain is pretty obvious.

Pushing hard to play on with it but I wouldn’t be expecting any late season heroics.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Then lets just be honest. Its not going to be our season. Put him and get it done. He is that far from his best..its not like he is still playing at his expected level.

 

[Mr Meow]

Then lets just be honest. Its not going to be our season. Put him and get it done. He is that far from his best..its not like he is still playing at his expected level.

Still kicked more goals than anyone and had an equal game-high score involvements on the weekend, limited and all. Throw Rohan in and how many decent talls do each side have to track them all?

 

[Turbocat]

Still kicked more goals than anyone and had an equal game-high score involvements on the weekend, limited and all. Throw Rohan in and how many decent talls do each side have to track them all?

Its not about kicking goals half injured now ..in a losing game. Its about making sure he is 100% right for next year.

 

[And_ROOS]

Its not about kicking goals half injured now ..in a losing game. Its about making sure he is 100% right for next year.

Would rather a struggling Cameron in finals who still scores goals and takes a defender, who then gets off season surgery and a late start to next season. Maybe we salvage this season.

But send him for surgery now, and we have no chance of winning the flag.

Even if Cameron misses til Rd 4 next season, means he comes in later in the year and we can manage.

 

[goyoucatters]

Would rather a struggling Cameron in finals who still scores goals and takes a defender, who then gets off season surgery and a late start to next season. Maybe we salvage this season.

But send him for surgery now, and we have no chance of winning the flag.

Even if Cameron misses til Rd 4 next season, means he comes in later in the year and we can manage.

No matter the different perspectives on this issue, surely we can all agree on one thing. Unless or until our season is entirely 'done', Jez will be looking to play every game he possibly can. Neither he nor the club will countenance surrendering at this point, despite the fact that it might prove to be the very wisest decision in hindsight.

 

[And_ROOS]

No matter the different perspectives on this issue, surely we can all agree on one thing. Unless or until our season is entirely 'done', Jez will be looking to play every game he possibly can. Neither he nor the club will countenance surrendering at this point, despite the fact that it might prove to be the very wisest decision in hindsight.

I think we have seen with guys like Guthrie this year that if his shoulder was "that" cooked he wouldn't be playing. We have seen this year that Guthrie is in our top 5 players we couldn't afford to lose, as we have seen by our midfield getting smashed, and we haven't had him most of the season.

We have better forwardline depth to mitigate losing Cameron then we had in the midfield to offset losing Guthrie.

 

[catempire]

Its not about kicking goals half injured now ..in a losing game. Its about making sure he is 100% right for next year.

That's the mentality once this season is cooked.

 

[Vdubs]

That's the mentality once this season is cooked.

Nevertheless, JC has looked cooked for the last 2 months, for whatever reason(s)

 

[Mr Meow]

Its not about kicking goals half injured now ..in a losing game. Its about making sure he is 100% right for next year.

The club and Cameron appear to see things differently to you. I respect their decisions.

If it gets worse or is at risk of further damage I'm sure the medical staff and the club will pull him out.

 

[Mr Meow]

Nevertheless, JC has looked cooked for the last 2 months, for whatever reason(s)

He's been moving kind of proppy since around the Richmond game in round 9.

He's still had 23 scoring shots and 4 goal assists in the 7 games since (I'm excluding the Melbourne game as he was injured early) - poor accuracy has been a big factor in his output declining (10 goals, 13 behinds - compared to 33.10 before that). If his radar is back as it kind of was vs Brisbane, it's probably worth him getting those 3-4 shots at goal a game and taking a good defender.

 

[catsfootyfan89]

Just quietly, if Cameron is genuinely injured, then Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

47

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

hasn't done him any favours by pushing the narrative of "We don't risk players or send them out on the park unless they're 100% - especially with soft tissue injuries."

What is the average fan supposed to make of this? There's a disconnect between what the coach is telling the fans and what is actually happening on the field. if players are being sent out on the field under-done, I wonder how they feel being held to the lofty standards set out by Scott in the media?

Furthermore, if Cameron is not okay, is there any version of 2023 in which he could've been rested for a month to hit the pointy end of the season at full steam?

Unfortunately not, because of the poor start to the year and the fact that we've been behind the eight-ball from day one because of the way we started the year.

You simply knew that the terrible start was going to impact our season in one way or another at the end of the day.

 

[Mr Meow]

Just quietly, if Cameron is genuinely injured, then Chris Scott hasn't done him any favours by pushing the narrative of "We don't risk players or send them out on the park unless they're 100% - especially with soft tissue injuries."

What is the average fan supposed to make of this? There's a disconnect between what the coach is telling the fans and what is actually happening on the field. if players are being sent out on the field under-done, I wonder how they feel being held to the lofty standards set out by Scott in the media?

Furthermore, if Cameron is not okay, is there any version of 2023 in which he could've been rested for a month to hit the pointy end of the season at full steam?

Unfortunately not, because of the poor start to the year and the fact that we've been behind the eight-ball from day one because of the way we started the year.

You simply knew that the terrible start was going to impact our season in one way or another at the end of the day.

This is why I always advise against reading too much into Scott's press conference smoke and mirrors to begin with.

Before the injury he may have had one of the longer term issues to bone/ligaments that you can work through but won't necessarily get better unless you have a LONG time off (season ending) or surgery for the same result. Plantar fascitis or osteitis pubis etc. These are very different types of injuries to soft tissue.

Or maybe it was just a downturn in form, confidence and physical conditioning before the shoulder injury. And by the sounds of it that may fall into the same category as the above issues. Unfortunately we just don't always get the info and often it arrives post-season.

Personally I do find it a little frustrating because without transparency from the club on these matters you can end up with seriously annoyed fans - "pea hearted Cameron clearly can't be bothered any more!". And it's not helpful when you get potentially misguided character attacks when there may be an injury related reason.

 

[catsfootyfan89]

Personally I do find it a little frustrating because without transparency from the club on these matters you can end up with seriously annoyed fans - "pea hearted Cameron clearly can't be bothered any more!". And it's not helpful when you get potentially misguided character attacks when there may be an injury related reason.

The reason I find it frustrating is that it essentially adds unnecessary benefit of the doubt to every player/effort equation. When you see a player stop chasing, not tackling, not going for smothers, not working, etc, it's very easy to simply say "Oh they're probably carrying an injury we haven't been told about." Maybe that's fair and more likely than the chance that a player isn't giving his all. Maybe it'd be a happier place if we just assumed that every single player on the ground is giving 100% at all times every game, but the experience of analyzing games begs to propose that the opposite is true. Effort does wane - you can see it happening within the timeline of every single game.

A great example was in the Grand Final last year. Five minutes to go, Selwood has the ball on the fifty and is about to go for the banana. Stevens comes in from the side and has a choice about what to do in that moment. David King gave an exemplary quote about the play:

"I just wonder if the roles were reversed - if it was Stevens that was going to have that opportunity to snap at goal, whether Selwood would commit full body for the smother? We know he would, and that's a gap in the game."

It's so brilliant because we all know that it's true. And we all know that it comes down to a player's choice-making ability in the moment. You could also take the angle of "Well Stevens was banged up after playing 4 quarters in a grand final, he probably just didn't have it in him." I just choose to see these equations the other way. It's a personal thing. I don't look at the potential excuses. I look for the potential improvements.

The question for me then becomes "When is it fair to criticize the effort being given by a player and to expect better from a professional athlete who's being paid a huge amount of money?" If the undisclosed hypothetical injury is always on the table, then the answer to that question appears to be "Probably never."

The bigger issue for me though is the money. Money buys wins, and wins buy Premierships. Players like Dangerfield/Cameron are always going to attract more ire when they're not performing, because the pile of money being set on fire is much larger.

 

[Mr Meow]

The reason I find it frustrating is that it essentially adds unnecessary benefit of the doubt to every player/effort equation. When you see a player stop chasing, not tackling, not going for smothers, not working, etc, it's very easy to simply say "Oh they're probably carrying an injury we haven't been told about." Maybe that's fair and more likely than the chance that a player isn't giving his all. Maybe it'd be a happier place if we just assumed that every single player on the ground is giving 100% at all times every game, but the experience of analyzing games begs to propose that the opposite is true. Effort does wane - you can see it happening within the timeline of every single game.

A great example was in the Grand Final last year. Five minutes to go, Selwood has the ball on the fifty and is about to go for the banana. Stevens comes in from the side and has a choice about what to do in that moment. David King gave an exemplary quote about the play:

"I just wonder if the roles were reversed - if it was Stevens that was going to have that opportunity to snap at goal, whether Selwood would commit full body for the smother? We know he would, and that's a gap in the game."

It's so brilliant because we all know that it's true. And we all know that it comes down to a player's choice-making ability in the moment. You could also take the angle of "Well Stevens was banged up after playing 4 quarters in a grand final, he probably just didn't have it in him." I just choose to see these equations the other way. It's a personal thing. I don't look at the potential excuses. I look for the potential improvements.

The question for me then becomes "When is it fair to criticize the effort being given by a player and to expect better from a professional athlete who's being paid a huge amount of money?" If the undisclosed hypothetical injury is always on the table, then the answer to that question appears to be "Probably never."

The bigger issue for me though is the money. Money buys wins, and wins buy Premierships. Players like Dangerfield/Cameron are always going to attract more ire when they're not performing, because the pile of money being set on fire is much larger.

I do get what you're saying but I don't see how his field and goal kicking falling off a cliff could be explained because he stopped caring or he was no longer putting in the work. We often confuse lack of execution with effort.

But his burst of pace hasn't quite seemed there either and I have little doubt the flow on effect of these factors on his confidence have disrupted his overall game.

He's finding the footy and 9 goals, 3 assists over his last 5 completed games isn't downright awful but overall he doesn't seem right. He's kicked 13 behinds during that period, a handful out on the full and is struggling to hit targets which are the major issues. Combined with the way he's moving I'm just more inclined in this case to believe he's working through injuries rather than not giving a s**t.