Autopsy Cats lose to Suns by 19 points

[goyoucatters]

It's interesting comparing things to last year. I don't think there was a win that told us much until the winning streak. Which makes the whole "scrape to at least 4-5 or 5-4 by round 9 and then make a charge" concept somewhat palatable.

The Pies comeback in 2022 was great, in some ways if we converted some last quarter goals in the Blues game this season then the game could've been equivalent. The performance however probably wasn't miles away from that Blues game if you consider the absentees. We probably played as well against Brisbane in 2022 as we did Collingwood 2023, but in the latter were playing a better side away from home where we simply didn't have the legs (especially after the 3 in-game injuries) to run it out. The Gold Coast game this year resembled the Hawthorn game last year as far as how disappointing it was against a team we should have beaten. The Sydney game we were bad. The Freo game at Geelong we were bad. The St Kilda game we started well but it ended up being a poor performance.

By round 9 we had taken care of 3 easy beats (Essendon, GWS, North), held off a decent side at Geelong and had that lucky/miraculous comeback against the Pies. Then 4 pretty terrible performances in losses. With, can I emphasise, a much, much lighter injury list.

It would not surprise me at all if our form line by round 9 this season reads like that except we didn't win our late comeback match (Carlton this year) and we had a lot of players picking up knocks early on. Perspective helps.

That's all fair enough, to a degree. But I'm not buying the idea that this team is going even as well as last season's early incarnation at this point. The performance against the Suns was truly reprehensible. If that's what 'a response' looks like, I'd hate to see a team that just can't be bothered to provide a response. And even if you don't include the game against the Suns, these next two games are the quintessential 'easybeats' of our pre-bye fixture. So if we're not winning both games, I don't see us being a factor at all come the end of the season.

Injuries (down back and in-game) have been particularly unkind. But the midfield obliteration and the inability/unwillingness to defend the ground on transition are glaring issues that simply cannot continue if we are to be truly competitive. I don't see how we even get to 4-5 without a significant improvement in those areas over the coming weeks.

In relation to some of the games last year, I totally get that hindsight is 20-20. But we actually had that Hawks game shot to bits after starting abysmally, and then stopped to a walk. The 'Buddy' game was just a non-starter from the opening bounce, as we capitulated to being nothing more than a part of the theatre. The Freo game at home was really bad, until we totally put it together late and should have won. And the Saints game was dominated by us for large periods, and lost in about 12 minutes of utter madness in the third term.

So, all that to say, I see us as demonstrably worse than early last season at this point. Could be recency bias with the Suns debacle, but I didn't feel as deflated as I did on the weekend after any of those galling losses early last year. That was not just a bad loss; it 'looked' like a really bad loss, with so little fight and no discernible system of play that was remotely effective.

Says it all to me at this point that I'm reduced from admiring the beauty of 16 as a number to just praying we can get back to 'one in a row'. We really have fallen that far to start this season, and we would need a far better level of output from just about the entire group (and an almost miraculous avoidance of the injury curse) to get on any sort of meaningful winning streak as things stand. The point that some have raised is entirely valid...how many of this group is actually even holding their level of form from early last year? The number would have to be painfully low, I believe, and that's the crux of our problem right there.

I hope as you do that we get to something like 5-4 after nine games this season. I'm just failing to see too many signs at all (apart from the knowledge that we were actually irrepressible six months ago) that suggest it is in any way probable at this point.

 

[Mr Meow]

That's all fair enough, to a degree. But I'm not buying the idea that this team is going even as well as last season's early incarnation at this point. The performance against the Suns was truly reprehensible. If that's what 'a response' looks like, I'd hate to see a team that just can't be bothered to provide a response. And even if you don't include the game against the Suns, these next two games are the quintessential 'easybeats' of our pre-bye fixture. So if we're not winning both games, I don't see us being a factor at all come the end of the season.

Injuries (down back and in-game) have been particularly unkind. But the midfield obliteration and the inability/unwillingness to defend the ground on transition are glaring issues that simply cannot continue if we are to be truly competitive. I don't see how we even get to 4-5 without a significant improvement in those areas over the coming weeks.

In relation to some of the games last year, I totally get that hindsight is 20-20. But we actually had that Hawks game shot to bits after starting abysmally, and then stopped to a walk. The 'Buddy' game was just a non-starter from the opening bounce, as we capitulated to being nothing more than a part of the theatre. The Freo game at home was really bad, until we totally put it together late and should have won. And the Saints game was dominated by us for large periods, and lost in about 12 minutes of utter madness in the third term.

So, all that to say, I see us as demonstrably worse than early last season at this point. Could be recency bias with the Suns debacle, but I didn't feel as deflated as I did on the weekend after any of those galling losses early last year. That was not just a bad loss; it 'looked' like a really bad loss, with so little fight and no discernible system of play that was remotely effective.

Says it all to me at this point that I'm reduced from admiring the beauty of 16 as a number to just praying we can get back to 'one in a row'. We really have fallen that far to start this season, and we would need a far better level of output from just about the entire group (and an almost miraculous avoidance of the injury curse) to get on any sort of meaningful winning streak as things stand. The point that some have raised is entirely valid...how many of this group is actually even holding their level of form from early last year? The number would have to be painfully low, I believe, and that's the crux of our problem right there.

I hope as you do that we get to something like 5-4 after nine games this season. I'm just failing to see too many signs at all (apart from the knowledge that we were actually irrepressible six months ago) that suggest it is in any way probable at this point.

Yep I know what you mean. I'm already putting my "realistic" path to top 4 as one of the years where a team sneaks 4th with 7 losses (by the way...I only just realised this season everyone plays 23 times, or am I going mad?). With 4 losses left there can be no slip ups on "gimmes" and we need minimum 8 of 9 wins at GMHBA. Which sounds ridiculous but if we do rally by round 6 it could play out the same as most years since 2007. But you never know how momentum can turn after a couple of wins, even if the opposition are not top level. I think the Collingwood and Carlton games could be explained away too easily but the Gold Coast game was line in the sand wake up call stuff if there ever was. At the end of the day these boys know how to win and play together. As 2022 best 22s ease back in and the bottom 5 only contains 1, maximum 2, of the new boys then I think we'll find fluency. I know this sounds like blind faith and like you if we lose this week there will be unignorable alarms going off. But IF we head into the Sydney match at home 2-3, I very much think we're in a position to rescue what has been a travesty so far. Any later than that and it's going to be ridiculously difficult.

 

[goyoucatters]

Yep I know what you mean. I'm already putting my "realistic" path to top 4 as one of the years where a team sneaks 4th with 7 losses (by the way...I only just realised this season everyone plays 23 times, or am I going mad?). With 4 losses left there can be no slip ups on "gimmes" and we need minimum 8 of 9 wins at GMHBA. Which sounds ridiculous but if we do rally by round 6 it could play out the same as most years since 2007. But you never know how momentum can turn after a couple of wins, even if the opposition are not top level. I think the Collingwood and Carlton games could be explained away too easily but the Gold Coast game was line in the sand wake up call stuff if there ever was. At the end of the day these boys know how to win and play together. As 2022 best 22s ease back in and the bottom 5 only contains 1, maximum 2, of the new boys then I think we'll find fluency. I know this sounds like blind faith and like you if we lose this week there will be unignorable alarms going off. But IF we head into the Sydney match at home 2-3, I very much think we're in a position to rescue what has been a travesty so far. Any later than that and it's going to be ridiculously difficult.

If it was just about personnel and reestablishing momentum/cohesion, I'd be more inclined to be optimistic. But it does appear that the entire team is incredibly unfit and just not willing/able to run hard both ways at this point. That was a huge element of our success last year; without it, we come back to the pack at a rate of knots.

So unless the two-way running improves markedly across the field, I'm not banking on seeing a return to anything like last year's form in the foreseeable future.

 

[Pollywaffle]

So unless the two-way running improves markedly across the field, I'm not banking on seeing a return to anything like last year's form in the foreseeable future.

This..( And winning clearances)

 

[Partridge]

That's all fair enough, to a degree. But I'm not buying the idea that this team is going even as well as last season's early incarnation at this point. The performance against the Suns was truly reprehensible. If that's what 'a response' looks like, I'd hate to see a team that just can't be bothered to provide a response. And even if you don't include the game against the Suns, these next two games are the quintessential 'easybeats' of our pre-bye fixture. So if we're not winning both games, I don't see us being a factor at all come the end of the season.

Injuries (down back and in-game) have been particularly unkind. But the midfield obliteration and the inability/unwillingness to defend the ground on transition are glaring issues that simply cannot continue if we are to be truly competitive. I don't see how we even get to 4-5 without a significant improvement in those areas over the coming weeks.

In relation to some of the games last year, I totally get that hindsight is 20-20. But we actually had that Hawks game shot to bits after starting abysmally, and then stopped to a walk. The 'Buddy' game was just a non-starter from the opening bounce, as we capitulated to being nothing more than a part of the theatre. The Freo game at home was really bad, until we totally put it together late and should have won. And the Saints game was dominated by us for large periods, and lost in about 12 minutes of utter madness in the third term.

So, all that to say, I see us as demonstrably worse than early last season at this point. Could be recency bias with the Suns debacle, but I didn't feel as deflated as I did on the weekend after any of those galling losses early last year. That was not just a bad loss; it 'looked' like a really bad loss, with so little fight and no discernible system of play that was remotely effective.

Says it all to me at this point that I'm reduced from admiring the beauty of 16 as a number to just praying we can get back to 'one in a row'. We really have fallen that far to start this season, and we would need a far better level of output from just about the entire group (and an almost miraculous avoidance of the injury curse) to get on any sort of meaningful winning streak as things stand. The point that some have raised is entirely valid...how many of this group is actually even holding their level of form from early last year? The number would have to be painfully low, I believe, and that's the crux of our problem right there.

I hope as you do that we get to something like 5-4 after nine games this season. I'm just failing to see too many signs at all (apart from the knowledge that we were actually irrepressible six months ago) that suggest it is in any way probable at this point.

Really good post. I think another factor is how vital it was last year to use Selwood and Dangerfield as burst players. The club - and credit where it is absolutely due - Scott - took the gamble to trust in the younger guys to do the work, and it paid off. This year none of them have had the same input (yet). Selwood is gone, and Dangerfield has had to shoulder more work than a 33 year old midfielder should really have to do. Important to note he hasn't been the only one by a long stretch. So you could argue unless the younger brigade were flourishing the same signs were there last year too.

Either way, across the board they have to improve. You'd think Duncan and Kolodjashnij (and Stanley) will all improve things on Monday.

 

[goyoucatters]

Really good post. I think another factor is how vital it was last year to use Selwood and Dangerfield as burst players. The club - and credit where it is absolutely due - Scott - took the gamble to trust in the younger guys to do the work, and it paid off. This year none of them have had the same input (yet). Selwood is gone, and Dangerfield has had to shoulder more work than a 33 year old midfielder should really have to do. Important to note he hasn't been the only one by a long stretch. So you could argue unless the younger brigade were flourishing the same signs were there last year too.

Either way, across the board they have to improve. You'd think Duncan and Kolodjashnij (and Stanley) will all improve things on Monday.

This trio should all be very positive inclusions to the team, in three key areas of need. But, as you say, without a lift from a bunch of others who have looked very ordinary to date, even that in itself is unlikely to be enough.

 

[Mr Meow]

This trio should all be very positive inclusions to the team, in three key areas of need. But, as you say, without a lift from a bunch of others who have looked very ordinary to date, even that in itself is unlikely to be enough.

You'd be surprised at how a confidence crisis can dissipate when some integral players start coming back. Sure, last week we got Stewart back but it was just one guy. Having our most skilful rebounder and arguably our best lockdown defender joining forces with Stewart, our premiership ruckman and a livewire forward (Rohan, but from the start) back shores up each line. C.Guthrie returning to midfield with a clean slate and I don't think a big game is far away from Blicavs. I honestly don't think Atkins and Dangerfield have been terrible, they need a couple to help them is all. For some reason during form slumps the natural expectation is for that to last forever - with good teams "the cliff is here" gets rolled out. If anything a mean reversion to last years form makes more sense for me, unless players have forgotten how to play. Maybe not for Hawkins is he is unfit, but for a lot of the others who have been so-so to date.

 

[goyoucatters]

You'd be surprised at how a confidence crisis can dissipate when some integral players start coming back. Sure, last week we got Stewart back but it was just one guy. Having our most skilful rebounder and arguably our best lockdown defender joining forces with Stewart, our premiership ruckman and a livewire forward (Rohan, but from the start) back shores up each line. C.Guthrie returning to midfield with a clean slate and I don't think a big game is far away from Blicavs. I honestly don't think Atkins and Dangerfield have been terrible, they need a couple to help them is all.

I take your point about how the players mentioned could improve the situation. But the player who will potentially make the most difference is the #22. If we can get the ball into his hands, he has a long history of using it very well. Compared to so much of the atrocious delivery into F50 over these past few weeks, that would be an enormous improvement.

Some (not all) of the cause of the ball rebounding out of our forward half faster than Usain Bolt has been the placement of the football to most Cats players disadvantage on the way in. Has been incredibly infuriating to watch. Hit a few targets in there instead, and the situation could change quickly.

 

[dazbroncos]

* you.

It is kinda funny.. nary a post in 16 consecutive wins and the a flag....

The wheels come off and whammo - back we are...

Inexplicable timing these days - I know.. you were busy.... shooting at people that got too close to your lawn....

And pull up on the F u's - thats for everyone not just your self.

Go Catters

 

[dazbroncos]

lets pull up on the F u's.

Dont care whom its for.

GO Catters

 

[Kobe Gryant]

It is kinda funny.. nary a post in 16 consecutive wins and the a flag....

The wheels come off and whammo - back we are...

Inexplicable timing these days - I know.. you were busy.... shooting at people that got too close to your lawn....

And pull up on the F u's - thats for everyone not just your self.

Go Catters

Some people just follow a football club to be united in negativity when things aren't going well.

It's not for us to judge, but is is certainly.....unique....yep, that's the word.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Some people just follow a football club to be united in negativity when things aren't going well.

It's not for us to judge, but is is certainly.....unique....yep, that's the word.

It's really not

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

Some people have higher standards it's as simple as that. Some are happy with the team running on the field, I'd prefer we didn't go back to the Geelong of old where we got made fun of for handbags and not getting it done on the big stage. Supporters get comfortable with losing and the next thing you know you are a bottom 4 irrelevant club.

 

[Mr Meow]

Some people have higher standards it's as simple as that. Some are happy with the team running on the field, I'd prefer we didn't go back to the Geelong of old where we got made fun of for handbags and not getting it done on the big stage. Supporters get comfortable with losing and the next thing you know you are a bottom 4 irrelevant club.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

It's really not

Maybe not around here, as it's strangely commonplace.

For the everyday supporter though it's certainly a unique way of showing your support.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Some people have higher standards it's as simple as that. Some are happy with the team running on the field, I'd prefer we didn't go back to the Geelong of old where we got made fun of for handbags and not getting it done on the big stage. Supporters get comfortable with losing and the next thing you know you are a bottom 4 irrelevant club.

Yep.

Dominant, unstoppable and physically imposing premiers.....to a struggling minnow club within 3 games. Truly extraordinary.

I hate to break it to you....but your so called 'standards' don't matter. You're not involved in helping the club succeed.

While we're all typing away on a forum, the people you're calling out are employed by an AFL club. Chances are their standards are a hell of a lot higher than yours, and that goes for all of us.

I was on the fence about Carter's comments about Geelong supporters being ungrateful, but a post like this would certainly exemplify that.

We're 3 games off a premiership....not 15 years into the wilderness.

Get a grip.

 

[dazbroncos]

Some people have higher standards it's as simple as that. Some are happy with the team running on the field, I'd prefer we didn't go back to the Geelong of old where we got made fun of for handbags and not getting it done on the big stage. Supporters get comfortable with losing and the next thing you know you are a bottom 4 irrelevant club.

Higher standards... we won the flag 3 games ago LMAO.

The Geelong of old had that reputation you refer to - and since say 07 its been buried - thats about 16 years straight of non hand bags capped off by Flag 3 games ago.

But sure, roll out the doom and gloom of old if it makes you feel better.

So predictable.

And yes weve been s**t for 3 games - but no need to have "higher standards handbaggers" sook about it.

GO Catters

 

[Interdimensional Bigfoot]

Can't believe we lost to the sun's, what's worse is they played so bad and we somehow managed to out s**t them. Aww well.

 

[Cataholic]

Can't believe we lost to the sun's, what's worse is they played so bad and we somehow managed to out s**t them. Aww well.

The reasons and theories have been discussed at length. We've all moved on and look forward to Monday's response.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Higher standards... we won the flag 3 games ago LMAO.

The Geelong of old had that reputation you refer to - and since say 07 its been buried - thats about 16 years straight of non hand bags capped off by Flag 3 games ago.

But sure, roll out the doom and gloom of old if it makes you feel better.

So predictable.

And yes weve been s**t for 3 games - but no need to have "higher standards handbaggers" sook about it.

GO Catters

I think its complete nonsense ( and it wasnt you who raised it ) as you say 3 games after a flag

But its not 16 years - its more like 54 years

The bottom line Geel put in one shocking performance in the 1969 1st semi - and lost by a big margin and in my opiniion were given that unfair label as a result

The Cats would hold the record for handing out 100 pt floggings even in big finals - none of those teams were given soft labels

Then you look at it from a common sense point of view - re they are now trying to protect the players head at all costs - where as back in the 60s and 70s in games there was shocking violence - belts and hits to the head - often behind the play - yet back then that was unbelievably labelled tough football

 

[Mattttty]

This is actually the best post of the entire thread. That was eye-opening reading for sure.

This is brilliant reading. I wonder how many posters who said we were definitely cooked this time last year have posted in the 'I was wrong' thread? It sure reveals how much noise and bluster gets shared on here. More importantly, it shows that you should never count a good club down.

 

[HAPPY CHEFFY]

Least we made it,

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Least we made it, value for money, but you beat a very young Hawks team, big deal, whatever.

Lol have a ******* sook.
We literally won a flag 5 games ago...

 

[Munich]

Lol have a ******* sook.
We literally won a flag 5 games ago...

What did they make?

I'd respond directly but the post was deleted.

I'd be running and hiding as well with that pathetic retort.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

What did they make?

I'd respond directly but the post was deleted.

I'd be running and hiding as well with that pathetic retort.

"Least we made it, value for money, but you beat a very young Hawks team, big deal, whatever." in response to the pies losing ALLLLL those Grand Finals.
Just a typical salty pie