Prediction Cats v Hawks - the best of the best since 1989. Who’d win?

[Seeds]

kicked 11 goals. Wasnt even the full forward that day. Spent A fair chunk of it as the centre half forward

 

[Spazz Cat]

kicked 11 goals. Wasnt even the full forward that day. Spent A fair chunk of it as the centre half forward

They were nearly all really good goals too. Only one Joe the Goose and one free kick I think

 

[Seeds]

Another interesting one is Dermie or Franklin at CHF? Hmmmm
Probs Dermie cause of finals but I dunno.
Same as Hawkins or Stoneham for us.
Reckon Stoneham at his peak at CHF was better than Hawkins at his peak.

Remember some commentators of a footy panel show saying stoneham was currently the best player in the league at one point in the early nineties. He could really move and had an amazing shimmy for a centre half forward of his size. No one ever got close to saying that about hawkins. Hawkins however was more a full forward and competes with brownless.

 

[Gordon Farkas]

kicked 11 goals. Wasnt even the full forward that day. Spent A fair chunk of it as the centre half forward

It didn't matter that he played CHF that day as the Gabba was so small (pre-redevelopment and still had the dog track around it). Instead of a 50 metre arc it was 40 metres that day. This was Billy's best-ever year IMHO and he was kicking them from anywhere at the time. No boutique ground or wheat silo was safe.

Play Stoneham at CHB in the 'greatest ever' match up in my view. We need him more down that end. We always had an abundance of fire-power up forward but our defence pre-2007 was always the weakness.

Damian Bourke should be the starting ruck, but bring on Ottens at quarter time, after Bourke goes down with the inevitable knee injury.

 

[Seeds]

It didn't matter that he played CHF that day as the Gabba was so small (pre-redevelopment and still had the dog track around it). Instead of a 50 metre arc it was 40 metres that day. This was Billy's best-ever year IMHO and he was kicking them from anywhere at the time. No boutique ground or wheat silo was safe.

Play Stoneham at CHB in the 'greatest ever' match up in my view. We need him more down that end. We always had an abundance of fire-power up forward but our defence pre-2007 was always the weakness.

Damian Bourke should be the starting ruck, but bring on Ottens at quarter time, after Bourke goes down with the inevitable knee injury.

Ground wasnt that small. Yes it did have 40 metre circle at the time but the gap between the circle and the square was about 15 plus metres. It was certainly longer than the scg and probably not all the different from docklands.

 

[Vdubs]

Another interesting one is Dermie or Franklin at CHF? Hmmmm
Probs Dermie cause of finals but I dunno.
Same as Hawkins or Stoneham for us.
Reckon Stoneham at his peak at CHF was better than Hawkins at his peak.

I'd have Mooney ahead of both.
Watching 07, 09 GF's, he was amazing and really straightened us up in those GF seasons.

 

[Spazz Cat]

I'd have Mooney ahead of both.
Watching 07, 09 GF's, he was amazing and really straightened us up in those GF seasons.

Hard to argue with that. Made a huge difference did Moons, and provided such a presence and confidence boost to those around him.
And unlike the other players (except Hawkins & Franklin) did it in an era of zone defence. He could really mark!
& overall I personally would have him ahead of both.
Only thing though if we're treating this game like a GF is kicking.
It matters so much in a relatively evenly matched GF and forwards who do have a flaw in their kicking, unfortunately this is where it usually shows up.
It almost certainly will happen.
Nick Riewoldt was almost a dead set champion IMO. But that kicking....& when it mattered it cost him dearly.
Converting shots will win/lose this imaginary game IMO. & they have Dunstall.

 

[Vdubs]

Hard to argue with that. Made a huge difference did Moons, and provided such a presence and confidence boost to those around him.
And unlike the other players (except Hawkins & Franklin) did it in an era of zone defence. He could really mark!
& overall I personally would have him ahead of both.
Only thing though if we're treating this game like a GF is kicking.
It matters so much in a relatively evenly matched GF and forwards who do have a flaw in their kicking, unfortunately this is where it usually shows up.
It almost certainly will happen.
Nick Riewoldt was almost a dead set champion IMO. But that kicking....& when it mattered it cost him dearly.
Converting shots will win/lose this imaginary game IMO. & they have Dunstall.

Good points. Mooney's 5 in the 07 GF were huge. None of those other KF champs, apart from Brereton, have ever done that.
Mooney says he cost us in 08, and his 09 was again very important.
Hawkins can have the jitters at crucial times.
Stoneham was never a huge GF player.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Good points. Mooney's 5 in the 07 GF were huge. None of those other KF champs, apart from Brereton, have ever done that.
Mooney says he cost us in 08, and his 09 was again very important.
Hawkins can have the jitters at crucial times.
Stoneham was never a huge GF player.

Yeah true. Once again can't argue with that. Reckon you've turned me around.
Was a great player. That first goal to get us going in the 09 GF was huuuuge.

 

[PhatBoy]

are we talking Hawkins now or Hawkins as he was at the end of 2011?

 

[CatRiot]

Do you think if Yates had the job of taking out Buddy at the open bounce? he could do it? I reckon he'd get polaxed lol

 

[Spazz Cat]

Do you think if Yates had the job of taking out Buddy at the open bounce? he could do it? I reckon he'd get polaxed lol

Anyone can take out anyone if they don't see it coming.
That's why I don't get why players like Mathews are called that "tough". It's not really.

 

[Seeds]

Good points. Mooney's 5 in the 07 GF were huge. None of those other KF champs, apart from Brereton, have ever done that.
Mooney says he cost us in 08, and his 09 was again very important.
Hawkins can have the jitters at crucial times.
Stoneham was never a huge GF player.

Stoneham played 2 grand finals. You cant make a call about a player off two games.

 

[Vdubs]

Stoneham played 2 grand finals. You cant make a call about a player off two games.

Stoneham or Mooney for you?
I like both, but Mooney just for me

 

[Seeds]

Stoneham or Mooney for you?
I like both, but Mooney just for me

if we have a full forward then stoneham easily. If we dont then probably mooney.

 

[Vdubs]

if we have a full forward then stoneham easily. If we dont then probably mooney.

GAS, Billy Brownless, Exell, Lindner, we had a few choices at FF.

 

[HardcoreGeelongFan]

Us. We simply built a way better team than they ever will and have been far more impressive since 1990. They do however have 5 premierships and our 3 is almost half. Seems they were extremely lucky with their era, as a list like St Kilda was extremely unlucky. When you look into it deeper if we just stopped choking for 15 minutes in the 08 GF we would've had 4 premierships this millennia and them 3. It was amazing we managed to lose the Grand Final their premierships are a joke really. Comes down to 15 minutes of play (that was an anomaly of form).

We've basically dominated the league since 2007 and our early/mid 90s side was also a top side. During the AFL era they've popped up for 4 years and went away.

 

[GerryLewis]

Teams posted on AFL website today.

GEELONG 1989 - 2020
B:Corey Enright, Matthew Scarlett, Tim McGrath
HB: Michael Mansfield, Harry Taylor, Ken Hinkley
C: Joel Corey, Joel Selwood, Garry Hocking
HF: Patrick Dangerfield, Tom Hawkins, Jimmy Bartel
F: Paul Chapman, Gary Ablett snr, Steve Johnson
R: Brad Ottens, Gary Ablett jnr, Paul Couch
Inter: Cameron Ling, Peter Riccardi, Darren Milburn, Bill Brownless
Coach: Mark Thompson

HAWTHORN 1989-2020
B: Gary Ayres, Chris Langford, Josh Gibson
HB: Luke Hodge, Chris Mew, Grant Birchall
C: Robert DiPierdomenico, Sam Mitchell, Shaun Burgoyne
HF: Cyril Rioli, Dermott Brereton, Luke Breust
F: Lance Franklin, Jason Dunstall, John Platten
R: Ben McEvoy, Michael Tuck, Shane Crawford
Inter: Jarryd Roughead, Jordan Lewis, Brian Lake, Tom Mitchell
Coach: Alastair Clarkson

The heart says Cats. Some tantalising battles - Scarlett v Dunstall; Brereton v Taylor; Langford v Ablett Senior; and Enright v Platten.
Cats’ midfield looks very classy and runs deep.

Wow. Sensational lineups. Stars on every line. The only changes I'd make to the Hawks side is Tuck out (was right at the tail end by 89) and have Darryn Jarman as the RR. Other than that bloody good job.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Beautiful stylish player but played a bit loose for mine. Might find himself up against it, with all those goal sharks roaming the forward line.

Yeah, Mansfield and Hinkley both beautifully balanced players and good to watch but both loose. I'd have Stewart in for Mansfield. You can carry one loose player down there but not two.

 

[Seeds]

Yeah, Mansfield and Hinkley both beautifully balanced players and good to watch but both loose. I'd have Stewart in for Mansfield. You can carry one loose player down there but not two.

Stewarts a bit loose too. They all played the same role. Defender who reads the play well and is usually tasked with running off his man to intercept the ball.

you are right that you dont want to many of these players in the same team.

i have stewart as the best over hinkley. Then its split between mansfiled, milburn and mackie who all played similar roles.

 

[Vdubs]

Do you think if Yates had the job of taking out Buddy at the open bounce? he could do it? I reckon he'd get polaxed lol

Given that he failed in taking out Dermie, agreed.
Watching a partially injured Derm go forward and snare crucial first Q goals was a pain.
If Dermie cleaned a player up, they were done for the game.
Sheedy warned Blighty and the Cats that if they could stop Dermie going for our smalls, we'd be a big chance, and we partially succeeded.

I'd have Dunstall FF, Derm HFF, Buddy CHF, they were all superstars.
Similarly, Billy FF, senior HFF, Mooney CHF, Stoneham CHB, Lindner HFF
We are assuming players at their absolute peaks..

FB A. Bews , M. Scarlett, Enright
HB Mackie, Stoneham, Milburn
C Dangerfield, J. Selwood, Riccardi
HF Lindner, C. Mooney, G. Ablett snr
FF Chapman, Brownless, S Johnson
R Ottens, G Hocking, G. Ablett jnr
i/c Bartel, Couch, Taylor, Corey
Em Wojcinski, Hawkins, Hinkley, Ling


Love the look of that combo of grunt, class, speed , marking power, & goal kicking prowess

Stoneham can help out in ruck contests better than any of our other swing players
Taylor to CHB.
How many goals is that potent forward line worth?
And that centreline is mouth watering.

 

[Seeds]

Given that he failed in taking out Dermie, agreed.
Watching a partially injured Derm go forward and snare crucial first Q goals was a pain.
If Dermie cleaned a player up, they were done for the game.
Sheedy warned Blighty and the Cats that if they could stop Dermie going for our smalls, we'd be a big chance, and we partially succeeded.

I'd have Dunstall FF, Derm HFF, Buddy CHF, they were all superstars.
Similarly, Billy FF, senior HFF, Mooney CHF, Stoneham CHB, Lindner HFF
We are assuming players at their absolute peaks..

FB A. Bews , M. Scarlett, Enright
HB Mackie, Stoneham, Milburn
C Dangerfield, J. Selwood, Riccardi
HF Lindner, C. Mooney, G. Ablett snr
FF Chapman, Brownless, S Johnson
R Ottens, G Hocking, G. Ablett jnr
i/c Bartel, Couch, Taylor, Corey
Em Wojcinski, Hawkins, Hinkley, Ling


Love the look of that combo of grunt, class, speed , marking power, & goal kicking prowess

Stoneham can help out in ruck contests better than any of our other swing players
Taylor to CHB.
How many goals is that potent forward line worth?
And that centreline is mouth watering.

The great mistake was putting our small back pocket on dermie after he went down. Yeates largely did his job. Dermie had like 5 touches for the game. Only problem is we put hocking on him instead of schulze, bos or yeates. Who exactly did schulze go onto after dermie went down?

 

[Vdubs]

The great mistake was putting our small back pocket on dermie after he went down. Yeates largely did his job. Dermie had like 5 touches for the game. Only problem is we put hocking on him instead of schulze, bos or yeates. Who exactly did schulze go onto after dermie went down?

Yeates had ample opportunity to put him down for the count, but the reality of the situation overawed him. I certainly don't advocate that style of play, but Dermie had his own rules, and set MANY precedents before that GF that showed us he needed to be put down for that game. His hit on Yeates earlier in 89 was pivotal.

 

[Back One Out]

HAWTHORN 1989-2020
B: Gary Ayres, Chris Langford, Josh Gibson
HB: Luke Hodge, Chris Mew, Grant Birchall
C: Robert DiPierdomenico, Sam Mitchell, Shaun Burgoyne
HF: Cyril Rioli, Dermott Brereton, Luke Breust
F: Lance Franklin, Jason Dunstall, John Platten
R: Ben McEvoy, Michael Tuck, Shane Crawford
Inter: Jarryd Roughead, Jordan Lewis, Brian Lake, Tom Mitchell
Coach: Alastair Clarkson

Paul Salmon and Darren Jarman are both Hall Of Famers who played at Hawthorn for 5 seasons and 100+ games in the 1990's. Despite them being remembered mainly as Essendon and Adelaide champions, they both played their very best football for the Hawks.

Not sure why they were overlooked, but Lake gets in for his 3 seasons at Hawthorn, and Hinkley (121 games for Geelong), Ottens (116 games) and Dangerfield (95 games) were included for Geelong.

Salmon (1996-2000)
1996 Best and fairest, missed 5 games and went within 3 votes of winning the Brownlow
1997 Best and fairest, All Australian ruck
100 games at Hawthorn, 55 Brownlow votes
224 games at Essendon, 54 Brownlow votes

Salmon shades Ottens in the ruck and as a forward option. Taller, more agile and more skilful.


Jarman (1991-1995)
1991 premiership player - he kicked 41 goals, including the miracle 4th qtr goal from row Z which sunk Geelong in the 2nd Semi
1992 All Australian centreman, Best and fairest runner-up
1995 Best and Fairest, finished 2nd in Brownlow
109 games at Hawthorn, 58 Brownlow votes
121 games at Adelaide, 38 Brownlow votes

Jars was a match-winner and a genius. He provides a headache for any opposition coach with his ability to slice & dice opponents by foot and score goals from anywhere. One of the best natural footballers I've ever seen. Put him at half forward instead of Breust.

 

[Vdubs]

Paul Salmon and Darren Jarman are both Hall Of Famers who played at Hawthorn for 5 seasons and 100+ games in the 1990's. Despite them being remembered mainly as Essendon and Adelaide champions, they both played their very best football for the Hawks.

Not sure why they were overlooked, but Lake gets in for his 3 seasons at Hawthorn, and Hinkley (121 games for Geelong), Ottens (116 games) and Dangerfield (95 games) were included for Geelong.

Salmon (1996-2000)
1996 Best and fairest, missed 5 games and went within 3 votes of winning the Brownlow
1997 Best and fairest, All Australian ruck
100 games at Hawthorn, 55 Brownlow votes
224 games at Essendon, 54 Brownlow votes

Salmon shades Ottens in the ruck and as a forward option. Taller, more agile and more skilful.


Jarman (1991-1995)
1991 premiership player - he kicked 41 goals, including the miracle 4th qtr goal from row Z which sunk Geelong in the 2nd Semi
1992 All Australian centreman, Best and fairest runner-up
1995 Best and Fairest, finished 2nd in Brownlow
109 games at Hawthorn, 58 Brownlow votes
121 games at Adelaide, 38 Brownlow votes

Jars was a match-winner and a genius. He provides a headache for any opposition coach with his ability to slice & dice opponents by foot and score goals from anywhere. One of the best natural footballers I've ever seen. Put him at half forward instead of Breust.

They are must-ins, and qualify on the since 89 basis.
So what is your best team then since 89?