Opinion Ceglar

[Hawkas1988]

How did Grimley not deliver in his debut game?

Also funny you mentioned Skipper as I was actually going to say I see Ceglar as a poor man's Skipper.

Mate I'm not having a go at Grimley, I like him and hope he can become the player he teases to be, he hasn't had much of a chance due to our great side and Hale being so dominant in his position but the coaches have shown they believe Ceglar is ahead of Grimley in pecking order and has shown more.

I'm glad the coaches don't share the same view on Ceglar as you do and can actually see his potential. He is a hawthorn listed player and you seem to have a real issue with him? Ceglar is much younger than Skipper was for us and 1 thing Ceglar already has that Skipper didn't is the ability to go forward and mark the footy.

There is a reason Monky wanted to bring Ceglar to the club and I'll back his judgement over yours.

 

[La Vache]

Very good second half last night.

His development in 12 months has been totally unexpected by me. Looks very much an AFL standard 23 year-old developing ruckman all of a sudden.

 

[Brishawk]

Very good second half last night.

His development in 12 months has been totally unexpected by me. Looks very much an AFL standard 23 year-old developing ruckman all of a sudden.

I think what last night tells us is that we can never play those three in the side together again. Ceglar was much improved in the second half but gee there are still some moments where I was left scratching my head. In last in one ruck contest he spent all his time looking at the other ruckman and by the time he looked up at the ball it was almost landed on his head. Port ruckman tapped in straight to a team mate and it was a clean clearance and a shot on goal. Ceglar looked like he didn't want to take the hit by just going for the ball. Early days so no need to hang him but he has got to want that contest more and be prepared to get hit for the good of the team.

 

[Brant]

And he didn't cost 2 x 1st Round Picks...

 

[FinalsBound]

Apart from the shank in front of goal, majorly impressed. Looked better than McEvoy, who has only been OK for us thus far, in my opinion. I'm sure he'll be getting called up more often from here on in.

 

[Davo23]

I think what last night tells us is that we can never play those three in the side together again. Ceglar was much improved in the second half but gee there are still some moments where I was left scratching my head. In last in one ruck contest he spent all his time looking at the other ruckman and by the time he looked up at the ball it was almost landed on his head. Port ruckman tapped in straight to a team mate and it was a clean clearance and a shot on goal. Ceglar looked like he didn't want to take the hit by just going for the ball. Early days so no need to hang him but he has got to want that contest more and be prepared to get hit for the good of the team.

I'm pretty sure that's tactical.

You change the rhythm, don't allow the opposition ruckman to gain height by jumping into you, wait for him to miss the ball. Put some uncertainty in the other ruckman's head.

Obviously, you can't do it every time, but it's been done by all our ruckmen in the last few years.

.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Ceglar is our number 1 future ruckman!....Racks up the possessions like a ruck rover, has excellent endurance & his skills are excellent....He is also a smart player & is learning all the time.

 

[The BIG X]

Bitterly disappointed when he did not contest the centre bounce after Burgers 1st goal in last qtr.

Must always contest centre bounces NO MATTER WHAT!!

 

[Procrastinator35]

Bitterly disappointed when he did not contest the centre bounce after Burgers 1st goal in last qtr.

Must always contest centre bounces NO MATTER WHAT!!

Fair enuf BIG X....Though Ceglar was playing in only his 5th senior game, so I'll forgive him THAT one.....HODGE however was playing his 235th game as Captain & had the grand sum total of 1 possession in the first quarter.....Once again our leader went MIA in a big game when the heat was on early & we needed him most to stand up & be counted by setting the example!.....A leader must always endeavour to do THAT NO MATTER WHAT!

 

[The BIG X]

Not talking about Hodge - this thread is on Ceglar.

I very slap a Hawk - but always want Centre Bounce CONTESTS

 

[Procrastinator35]

Not talking about Hodge - this thread is on Ceglar.

I very slap a Hawk - but always want Centre Bounce CONTESTS

So is a 'VERY' slap hard or soft X?.....I prefer mine 'well-done' as opposed to 'rarely'!

 

[The BIG X]

Think you got my point #35

 

[FinalsBound]

I want to very slap Hodge for being generally woeful last night...

 

[Carcass]

There are too many on here to mention who just don’t rate ruckman, and the stats only men/women who expect rucks to kick 100 goals a season and get 35 touches a game, but what they do at the bounces doesn’t mean shit.

When McEvoy went off and Celgar went into the middle we got the game and centre square on our terms for the first time in the entire game – WHY?

Was very disappointed in both McEvoy and Hale last week when the $wans had a nothing in the side as their only ruck and they still didn’t take control or even take marks around the ground.

Hale dropping those marks last night when a 5 foot nothing player gave him a little touch was weak and it happens with him to often – he needs to watch the GF again and find the Hale that was playing that day, and play like that on a weekly basis.

So Cegs missed a centre bounce did he, well the way McEvoy was playing he may as well have missed them all, the same the week before. Anything is better then seeing carl peterson as our ruckman though, even the ruckman missing the bloody bounce.

 

[Procrastinator35]

There are too many on here to mention who just don’t rate ruckman, and the stats only men/women who expect rucks to kick 100 goals a season and get 35 touches a game, but what they do at the bounces doesn’t mean shit.

When McEvoy went off and Celgar went into the middle we got the game and centre square on our terms for the first time in the entire game – WHY?

Was very disappointed in both McEvoy and Hale last week when the $wans had a nothing in the side as their only ruck and they still didn’t take control or even take marks around the ground.

Hale dropping those marks last night when a 5 foot nothing player gave him a little touch was weak and it happens with him to often – he needs to watch the GF again and find the Hale that was playing that day, and play like that on a weekly basis.

So Cegs missed a centre bounce did he, well the way McEvoy was playing he may as well have missed them all, the same the week before. Anything is better then seeing carl peterson as our ruckman though, even the ruckman missing the bloody bounce.

McEvoy & Hale both look tired & spent to me Carcass....Our use of our ruck stocks truly beggars belief at times....We have both Ceglar & Lowden ready & able to step in and fill a role so as to keep both Hale & McEvoy fresh for the big ones....I'm at a loss as to our clubs policy & thinking here, especially as regards keeping blokes fresh for the entire season....this area requires serious re-consideration IMHO.

Also, Monkhorst has been our ruck coach for a while now & under his tenure I have been singularly unimpressed with our ruck work in games, particularly at centre bounces!....To say that we need a change here would be putting it rather mildly indeed!

The use of our rucks is a serious sticking point for me & once more puts the spotlight on our coaching group & match-committee. I for one am singularly underwhelmed!

 

[Noneedforaname]

Nah, Ceglar taking over when McEvoy went off wasn't the difference. Simpkin was.

 

[Carcass]

McEvoy & Hale both look tired & spent to me Carcass....Our use of our ruck stocks truly beggars belief at times....We have both Ceglar & Lowden ready & able to step in and fill a so as to keep both Hale & McEvoy fresh for the big ones....I'm at a loss as to our clubs policy & thinking here, especially as regards keeping blokes fresh for the entire season....this area requires serious re-consideration IMHO.

Also, Monkhorst has been our ruck coach for a while now & under his tenure I have been singularly unimpressed with our ruck work in games, particularly at centre bounces!....To say that we need a change here would be putting it rather mildly indeed!

The use of our rucks is a serious sticking point for me & once more puts the spotlight on our coaching group & match-committee. I for one am singularly underwhelmed!

I hear you. Team selection has been a bug bear of mine for a long time where faves are played to often. But hey I'll get told our coach has 2 flags by playing faves as the be all end all answer...........what about development in-case of injuries? Or better still rewarding the blokes at Box Hill who are in form...

Anyway........

This walk up at a centre bounce and put a hand out to keep the other ruckman away (which the umps started pinging us for last year so it's stopped now) and then try and hit the ball has been a bug bear of mine as well. But no point saying anything because few believe genuine TAP work wins games.

Our mids seem to love roving to Sandi.....I wonder why?

Lobbe is a good tap ruckman, but again taps don't mean as much as a mark around the ground, apparently, even though a lot of those taps resulted in clear quick inside 50s for port until Cegs went in their and actually jumped at Lobbe, forcing a nil all draw at the worst.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Ruckmen cop the most punishment out of all positions on the ground....It's nothing to have all 4 on your list out at once as a consequence....When you have 4 blokes fit, in form & capable, then not utilizing this advantage & asset when its at your disposal is at best poor man management & squad rotation & at it's worst incompetence on a grand scale!....And playing 3 at once?????...... Crickey, not a clue!

 

[Brishawk]

McEvoy & Hale both look tired & spent to me Carcass....Our use of our ruck stocks truly beggars belief at times....We have both Ceglar & Lowden ready & able to step in and fill a role so as to keep both Hale & McEvoy fresh for the big ones....I'm at a loss as to our clubs policy & thinking here, especially as regards keeping blokes fresh for the entire season....this area requires serious re-consideration IMHO.

Also, Monkhorst has been our ruck coach for a while now & under his tenure I have been singularly unimpressed with our ruck work in games, particularly at centre bounces!....To say that we need a change here would be putting it rather mildly indeed!

The use of our rucks is a serious sticking point for me & once more puts the spotlight on our coaching group & match-committee. I for one am singularly underwhelmed!

Since monkey arrived we have gone from clearance also rans to leading the league in clearance differential, centre square clearances and scores from stoppages. I'd suggest he has had a lot to do with that.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Since monkey arrived we have gone from clearance also rans to leading the league in clearance differential, centre square clearances and scores from stoppages. I'd suggest he has had a lot to do with that.

What's that olde saying again Brishawk....Lies, damned lies & Statistics....In big games my eyes tell me another story altogether....Too often we seem to end up on the negative end in these games so far as ruck-work & effective clearances as a direct result of their work is concerned....The fact that Lobbe had the same amount as Hale, McEvoy & Ceglar combined is a damning statistic in itself....With 3 rucks to contend with, Lobbe should have been pummelled from pillar to post & yet was by far & away the most effective big man on the ground!....Similarly against Sydney a 2 bit hack called Derickxs (Not sure bout the spellin) was able to hold his own against our vaunted duo of Hale & McEvoy. Then there was the smashing that Simpson & McIntosh handed out to us when we played Geelong!

Sorry....But my eyes are the best gauge for a players contribution & worth on the field....Too often in these big games are rucks are either smashed or merely break even against an opposition ruckman for whom they should be taking to the cleaners!....That all comes back to game day strategy, the coaching staff directly responsible for the rucks & the freshness & workloads of these players themselves in being able to perform on the day to the best of their abilities!

 

[Max Powers]

In my opinion i think Cegs has some potential, was a bit rusty at the start of the game last night but got better as it went along.
His tapwork seems pretty solid and he can move pretty well, also took a couple of nice contested marks in the forward 50 towards the end of the game.
Definitely got some improvement to go but i think he's doing OK.

 

[Davo23]

In my opinion i think Cegs has some potential, was a bit rusty at the start of the game last night but got better as it went along.
His tapwork seems pretty solid and he can move pretty well, also took a couple of nice contested marks in the forward 50 towards the end of the game.
Definitely got some improvement to go but i think he's doing OK.

Exactly, Ceglar may be 23 years old, but he's only played FOUR senior games.

That's 4 games

I think he's got good potential, and will be an asset.

.

 

[Carcass]

Ruckmen cop the most punishment out of all positions on the ground....It's nothing to have all 4 on your list out at once as a consequence....When you have 4 blokes fit, in form & capable, then not utilizing this advantage & asset when its at your disposal is at best poor man management & squad rotation & at it's worst incompetence on a grand scale!....And playing 3 at once?????...... Crickey, not a clue!

I actually understand the rationale behind that and kind of agree, but if you’re going to do it then just bloody do it, which we didn’t.

Playing the 3 should have had Hale out of the FORWARD POCKET (yes it is an actual position for any kids on here not over the age of 25), nowhere else, not Half forward where he is often lurking. McEvoy in the hole in front of the big blokes to take contested marks to help a short defence, nowhere else, not up on the wing, stay in the effing hole. And of course Cegs in the ruck.

This would actually work against a lot of teams and i’d do it against WC if we don’t have at least Lake back by then, but it must be like I’ve said and they can’t “roam” from their positions. Ceg is a good enough contested mark to be relieved by Hale and go to the FP, which means McEvoy, who is supposed to be able to run all day can stay in the hole in defence, at worse it makes teams on the fast break have somebody big they have to kick over!!!!!!! Not to mention making their power forwards lead elsewhere, atm they just lead straight past or straight over the top of Hodge, or Burgs, or Birch, or Suckling when they are all “rotating” as the loose.

The problem is we don’t do it this way, we play the 3 and they are here there and everywhere on the field with this “must be able to play multiple roles“ shit. Well these 3 when in the side aren’t versatile enough to do that, but they can play 1 in the ruck, 1 out of the FORWARD POCKET and 1 loose behind the ball, we all know which ones are suited for which positions, except our coaches it sometimes seems.

The only one who should be “roaming” around the ground is whoever is in the centre at that time and he just needs to stop the opposition ruckman from taking marks through that centre corridor or been used as the get out clause from defence.

I hate saying it, but the effing handbags are already onto and in front on this one as well.....Simpson (ruck), McIntosh (forward/backup ruck) and Blicas (another tall loose behind the play who can pinch hit ruck)...but they set it up exactly like I have said and don’t fiddle with it every 3 minutes like we do. Plus they had the kid Vardy go down with a knee as well (forward/ruck)...They always have 3 talls in defence no matter what and as a minimum... is it any wonder we can't score against the bastards esp when they also have 2 dozen 189cm quick HBF hiding behind the ball as well.

The main diff is none of our 3 rucks have the mobility of Blicas for the behind the ball set up.

 

[Brishawk]

What's that olde saying again Brishawk....Lies, damned lies & Statistics....In big games my eyes tell me another story altogether....Too often we seem to end up on the negative end in these games so far as ruck-work & effective clearances as a direct result of their work is concerned....The fact that Lobbe had the same amount as Hale, McEvoy & Ceglar combined is a damning statistic in itself....With 3 rucks to contend with, Lobbe should have been pummelled from pillar to post & yet was by far & away the most effective big man on the ground!....Similarly against Sydney a 2 bit hack called Derickxs (Not sure bout the spellin) was able to hold his own against our vaunted duo of Hale & McEvoy. Then there was the smashing that Simpson & McIntosh handed out to us when we played Geelong!

Sorry....But my eyes are the best gauge for a players contribution & worth on the field....Too often in these big games are rucks are either smashed or merely break even against an opposition ruckman for whom they should be taking to the cleaners!....That all comes back to game day strategy, the coaching staff directly responsible for the rucks & the freshness & workloads of these players themselves in being able to perform on the day to the best of their abilities!

All you are doing here, like many people on this board, is define 'big games' as games we lose. We absolutely annihilated opposition from stoppages (in terms of scores from stoppages) last year. In the grand final our rucks controlled where the ball went even though Sandilands won a lot of hitouts. There is more to rucking than winning hit outs. Hale in particular was sensational in the finals series but sure re-define big games as games we lose and then you can never be wrong

 

[Jason Dunstall]

Since monkey arrived we have gone from clearance also rans to leading the league in clearance differential, centre square clearances and scores from stoppages. I'd suggest he has had a lot to do with that.

But don't let someone ranting get in the way of your theory