Centrelink debt notices - Turnbull govt reaches new levels of arse clown-ness

[Power Raid]

Adults are talking.

ratts you not only fooled Maggie with your previous comment about this notice but confused many BF poster including Chief.

Perhaps you should clarify how you should respond to this letter and apologise for saying it was more than what you made it out to be.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Half of America didn't vote last election. Did it mean anything? Nope.

It achieved a comprehensive win for Trump, and scattered the ashes of the Democratic Party into the wind. Now the Democrats understand that they have to start listening to the people. They won't, because the pig headed left will not give up their grip on the Party, and it is much easier to make speeches that make you feel good and yet achieve nothing.

We still have a 1950's transport system. Outer suburbs have little or no access to public transport and are forced to use cars to commute. Previous Governments have spoken about fast trains ad nauseam, and have done nothing except waste millions and millions on feasibility reports and then throw their hands in their air because it is all too hard. Another lie. You develop a fast train system throughout Victoria that allows people to live in rural Victoria and only take 15-30 minutes to travel to Melbourne for work. All of a sudden you make housing affordability a reality. Instead we have the Victorian Govt spending billions on trying to maintain and upgrade a system that is fundamentally flawed. Call in the Japanese and Chinese and get them to look at the whole system and redesign a system that works. They are used to moving large groups of people, long distances, and have designed a system accordingly. Ideally this should have started 40 years ago, but the nature of our politicians is to do as little as possible. How many politicians have actually used their 'study tours' (excuse for a tax payer holiday) to actually explore and report on this? As each year passes and housing congestion becomes worst, the likelihood of any serious upgrade is remote. Again we elect Political Parties that are more interested in clinging to power and feathering their own nest than actually thinking about the future.

Your very, very, very generous reading of the non-voters intention would be made exactly the same way by voting for Trump. There is NO advantage to not voting. And 40 years ago there was no need for fast trains. And, yes, 'study tours' do report on exactly these sorts of things. We don't have fast trains because it would cost the billions x10 that you are so annoyed it's costing us to upgrade the metro - something undoubtedly necessary in an area of town where a lot of stops is advantageous (and not therefore as suited to your fast train hopes). If you stopped being so keen to believe spin about the "pig headed left", you would at least understand why we haven't had a wholesale change to our PT structure.

ratts you not only fooled Maggie with your previous comment about this notice but confused many BF poster including Chief.

Perhaps you should clarify how you should respond to this letter and apologise for saying it was more than what you made it out to be.

Adults are talking.

 

[Power Raid]

Adults are talking.

Ratts in the case of Centrelink, take away the politics, and they are acting responsibly by being proper custodians of capital.

I would prefer in addition to this process that social welfare was increased, reformed and promoted participation. But that's another topic.

It should not be forgotten the 80% of the notice relate to an actual issue. Meaning the process is reasonable.


HOWEVER, your conduct of describing this as something it is not is disgraceful. You are hurting the most financially vulnerable segment of our community.

With your knowledge, you should be helping them and advising them how to deal with the letters and how to deal with departments.

Help people! How hard is that?

 

[Moody Blue]

Your very, very, very generous reading of the non-voters intention would be made exactly the same way by voting for Trump. There is NO advantage to not voting. And 40 years ago there was no need for fast trains. And, yes, 'study tours' do report on exactly these sorts of things. We don't have fast trains because it would cost the billions x10 that you are so annoyed it's costing us to upgrade the metro - something undoubtedly necessary in an area of town where a lot of stops is advantageous (and not therefore as suited to your fast train hopes). If you stopped being so keen to believe spin about the "pig headed left", you would at least understand why we haven't had a wholesale change to our PT structure.

Victorian Labor has been in power for 13 of the 17 years this century. They did nothing for 11 years. Andrews has started doing something because he has been forced to react to the grid lock Melbourne is being faced. He blew 1 billion on East/West and lied to the people of Victoria. He supported the project and then withdrew the support because he saw a political opportunity. Another lie! The billions X10 that you speak about, was blown 10 fold by Federal Labor. Imagine if they had injected 20 billion into Victoria's transport system, the State could have contributed 10 billion and the rest would be financed through private capital. Instead Andrews is giving Transurban a blank cheque book. Great planning. The Liberals, true to form, promised the world under the leadership of Ted Baillieu and then did nothing for two years.

Tell me why are the left so petrified about allowing people the choice not to vote?

 

[Mofra]

Ratts in the case of Centrelink, take away the politics, and they are acting responsibly by being proper custodians of capital.

They are not being proper custodians - the auto-letter premise of annualizing part-year payments across an entire year was a critical design flaw pointed out pre-implementation, of which the department heads did nothing about.

In 2012 a study showed that welfare investigations yield approx. $1 per $1 capital spent, ATO investigations yield close to $7 per $1 capital spent.
If we are talking about being "proper custodians of capital" I know where my focus would be.

 

[Power Raid]

They are not being proper custodians - the auto-letter premise of annualizing part-year payments across an entire year was a critical design flaw pointed out pre-implementation, of which the department heads did nothing about.

In 2012 a study showed that welfare investigations yield approx. $1 per $1 capital spent, ATO investigations yield close to $7 per $1 capital spent.
If we are talking about being "proper custodians of capital" I know where my focus would be.

agree and that's been my point.

The next step is understanding how to respond to Centrelink. The choice is being dragged into a process or take control.

If you know the process is flawed, then the choice is made even simpler......take control, respond in writing to the minister and the department with notice that the claim is disputed.

 

[Crankyhawk]

100% agree with you but it's about winning votes in marginal seats rather than nation building.

The only way to return to nation building is to return to stronger states with all operational decision made at that level and the federal looking after tax collection and portfolios clearly outlined in the constitution.

Which is why ones voting priority should be to marginalise the seat you live in irrespective of personal political beliefs.

 

[Power Raid]

Which is why ones voting priority should be to marginalise the seat you live in irrespective of personal political beliefs.

perhaps I should enroll and perhaps even move seats

I have either lived in safe Labor seats like East Perth or safe Liberal seats in the western suburbs. Neither look like changing hands or being pork barrelled anytime soon.

 

[Chief]

You're not listening then. The govt have said that it IS NOT A LETTER OF DEMAND.

The article link was posted by someone previously. It can escalate to a letter of demand if you do not respond in time. That is why I recommend responding as outlined.

This is a basic skill in life that all should know and bags the question "what do they teach kids at school?"

Were you not taught this at school? This was year 10 from memory.

Bags the question.

Two errors in a three word phrase. Amazing.

Now tell me: when did you have to deal with Centrelink over one of these false notices?

 

[Power Raid]

Bags the question.

Two errors in a three word phrase. Amazing.

Now tell me: when did you have to deal with Centrelink over one of these false notices?

As discussed there is no difference between a Centrelink notice, a notice from the police or other govt agency, any individual or other entity.

A well established legal process exists for all.

 

[Chief]

As discussed there is no difference between a Centrelink notice, a notice from the police or other govt agency, any individual or other entity.

A well established legal process exists for all.

Thank you Mr Brandis.

Now tell me: why should citizens be put through this process for non-existent debts based off of flimsy data matching?

Would you approve of this system if businesses were put through this process on an unprecedented scale based off of flimsy data matching?

 

[greennick]

Was listening to the Senate this morning and apparently the government can release information to counteract a claim that they believe is wrong.

One thing though that wasn't mentioned in the press was the government they had been sending notices to a previous old address.

Still it is interesting to note that the law entitles the government to release private information under those circumstances,

Doesn't that make sense though? If someone puts themselves into the public with false information, surely you're able to respond with the real information? They've already waived their right to privacy IMO. Otherwise it is impossible for the government to correct incorrect information that is out there.

 

[Power Raid]

Thank you Mr Brandis.

Now tell me: why should citizens be put through this process for non-existent debts based off of flimsy data matching?

Would you approve of this system if businesses were put through this process on an unprecedented scale based off of flimsy data matching?

Exactly! Why would you submit yourself to a Centrelink process when you could simply reply as outlined?

 

[greennick]

Thank you Mr Brandis.

Now tell me: why should citizens be put through this process for non-existent debts based off of flimsy data matching?

Would you approve of this system if businesses were put through this process on an unprecedented scale based off of flimsy data matching?

Aren't the vast majority of these notices proving to be correct? I know ours was, however we knew they had overpaid us and knew how much to the dollar, which we had put aside.

For us the only annoying thing was we couldn't stop the overpayments from happening and needed to put it aside and wait for the overpayment letter about 18 months later.

I do think they should change the wording of the letter though. The initial one seems a lot more demanding than, it should be. A monthly "hey, give us a buzz, we think there has been an error," would suffice for at least a few months. Then escalate to a we sent notes on XX, YY, and ZZ, and tried calling on AA and BB, if you do not respond we will start collection procedures...

 

[Chief]

Exactly! Why would you submit yourself to a Centrelink process when you could simply reply as outlined?

I can see this is going the way of 18C and the word "offend" in your track record of missing the point entirely.

 

[Crankyhawk]

perhaps I should enroll and perhaps even move seats

I have either lived in safe Labor seats like East Perth or safe Liberal seats in the western suburbs. Neither look like changing hands or being pork barrelled anytime soon.

With social medial, I wonder if a campaign to marginalise your seat could get trending?
The corollary is that if it goes too far and you accidentally vote out the sitting member, well, no biggie, and they lose super perks.
Give us a reason to vote for you as an individual or you may get dumped for the other candidate....

 

[Maggie5]

Doesn't that make sense though? If someone puts themselves into the public with false information, surely you're able to respond with the real information? They've already waived their right to privacy IMO. Otherwise it is impossible for the government to correct incorrect information that is out there.

What a wonderful situation if the government were that honest and wanting to correct all things.
Like for example blaming Labor for this system yet they have been in government for a few years.
Maybe if they stopped putting bandaids on the systems when it needs a transplant.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

|you incorrectly quoted the last coupla times|

You once again fall into over-the-top rhetoric. To what end? Pointless partisanship.

And then you end claiming "the left" are petrified of people not voting? Riiiight. You can already not vote. It's easy. Your argument was meant to be that you think it's smart for people to not vote. But once again your desire to make a dumb statement about a mythical "left" has distracted you from speaking clearly or arguing a point with cogent analysis. You are being led astray by the dunderheads in the Murdoch press and online who bang on about 'leftists'.

 

[JackOutback]

Aren't the vast majority of these notices proving to be correct? I know ours was, however we knew they had overpaid us and knew how much to the dollar, which we had put aside.

For us the only annoying thing was we couldn't stop the overpayments from happening and needed to put it aside and wait for the overpayment letter about 18 months later.

I do think they should change the wording of the letter though. The initial one seems a lot more demanding than, it should be. A monthly "hey, give us a buzz, we think there has been an error," would suffice for at least a few months. Then escalate to a we sent notes on XX, YY, and ZZ, and tried calling on AA and BB, if you do not respond we will start collection procedures...

Depends on your definition of overwhelmingly correct; reports are saying 80 per cent correct, but I would imagine few private businesses would survive treating 20 per cent of their customers as poorly.

 

[Moody Blue]

You once again fall into over-the-top rhetoric. To what end? Pointless partisanship.

And then you end claiming "the left" are petrified of people not voting? Riiiight. You can already not vote. It's easy. Your argument was meant to be that you think it's smart for people to not vote. But once again your desire to make a dumb statement about a mythical "left" has distracted you from speaking clearly or arguing a point with cogent analysis. You are being led astray by the dunderheads in the Murdoch press and online who bang on about 'leftists'.

Unfortunately you are far too sensitive. I don't waste my time or money with the Herald Sun or any Murdoch papers. The Left means the Labor Party, Greens and the hopelessly compromised ABC. Let's not dance around the issue, Labor has been decimated by their asylum seeker back flip, and their climate policy. They are trying to gain ground from the Greens and Vic Labor is leading the charge. To do that they have to take a huge step to the left.

The LNP was controlled by the lunatic right, and Turnbull has tried to bring them back to the centre, but ultimately will be ousted. Who knows maybe Abbott will be back. What a sad day for Australia that will be.

The Left have always been petrified about allowing voters the choice of whether to vote without penalty. We both know why. Labor's vote would drop off by 15-20%.

You are far too trusting of politicians and their motives. I just wonder how many of our politicians from both sides of the fence have sold out to China and other Asian countries with their dirty little deals?

Corruption and bribery is common place in Asia and that is how they do business. I know this first hand. Australian Companies have been caught bribing officials. Is this what we want from globalization? To believe for a moment, that as we do more and more business in Asia, this type of corruption will not creep into Australia society and culture is unrealistic. It has already started. Sam Dastyari showed his true colors, and there was a Liberal caught doing the same thing. Bill Shorten in his time as Employment Minister in a Labor Govt was givng out 457 Visa's like confectionery, while Australians were still recovering from what you state was the ravages of the GFC. Who was he appeasing? It certainly wasn't the Unions, it was his rich mates. This is typical of the majority of politicians and the type of behaviour we can expect from these parasites in the future.

 

[greennick]

Depends on your definition of overwhelmingly correct; reports are saying 80 per cent correct, but I would imagine few private businesses would survive treating 20 per cent of their customers as poorly.

I think we need to consider that the fact many are incorrect is due to situations like the lady in the article above. Taxes weren't done timely and she didn't notify Centrelink of a chance in circumstances. It was correct based on the information provided to them.

 

[Maggie5]

I am so glad the government found that lady otherwise we would still be discussing the numerous other mistakes.

 

[NSWCROW]

https://www.buzzfeed.com/aliceworkman/work-for-the-dole-report?utm_term=.eygbqoYm4#.lnagqARn5

 

[Moody Blue]

If true he should be bounced out of parliament and face and charges.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-02/politics-live-march-2/8315480

Politics Live: Human Services Minister referred to federal police over Centrelink disclosure
BY POLITICAL REPORTER STEPHANIE ANDERSON
Email Facebook Twitter WhatsApp

Labor MP Linda Burney has referred Human Services Minister Alan Tudge to the Australian Federal Police after confirmation his department gave a Centrelink client's personal information to a journalist.

Mr Tudge and his department claimed the disclosure was legal according to section 202 of the Social Security Act 1999 and section 162 of the A New Tax System Family Administration Act 1999.

....and when (footy) journalists obtain private information using illegal sources, no one says a word or wants to hold an enquiry.

 

[Maggie5]

....and when (footy) journalists obtain private information using illegal sources, no one says a word or wants to hold an enquiry.

Link?